Bilstein SP's installed...
 

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

HOLY CRAP are these things AWESOME!!! :grin: With the H&R springs, long regarded as the harshest riding springs for the MINI, the ride with the Bilstein SP's is BETTER than either stock suspension. Overall a bit more firm, but the struts are so much better matched to the increased spring rates. There is NO harshness in the ride at all. Small and big bumps are simply no big deal anymore - no bouncing, no harsh transmission, road reflectors, anything. When transitioning from different cambers, there is no longer any hint of wander or anything strange like before...

I'm thinking that the factory struts were at their limits trying to control the aftermarket springs. Now that the dampeners are better matched to the springs, and after my recent conversion, I cannot help but think that aftermarket springs are simply too much for the stock struts to handle.

In any event, these are hands down the best parts I have ever installed on a vehicle. I'd say the ride is more sophisticated, the car feels more planted, and there's less dive under braking and squat on acceleration. Cornering limits remain about the same, but hitting any bump mid-corner no longer upsets the car's balance since the increased dampening and rebound rates even everything out and take care of any oscillation quickly and effectively. Did I mention that the car feels more planted?

If you don't want to go full coilovers, and want to dramatically improve the ride with your aftermarket springs then these are for you... Likewise, if you don't really want the adjustability of the Konis or don't need it, check these out. I didn't like the fact that with the Konis you can readily adjust the front but cannot do so in the rear without pulling the struts, so I didn't see much of an advantage. In comparison to the H-Sport/Koni equipped MINI that I have driven before, the Bilsteins seem much, much more refined on the street with the same level of performance when approaching the limit...

Overall, I am more than pleased... It's hard for me to describe in words how much better the car performs overall with normal street driving or more aggro cornering. I can't wait to see how they do at the inaugural March autocross! :grin:

I'll post again after the March autocross and again after our April DE to let you know how they do on the auto-x course and at the track...

P.S. I forgot to mention one thing about the install - run to Home Depot and grab 2 (two), 10mm locking nuts (coarse thread). For some reason, the rears didn't come with new nuts, and the old nuts off the OEM parts are the wrong thread pitch.

Scobib,

Sent you a PM.

Ciao,


Michael

Setcha a PM back, but just for everyone else's benefit:

I'm running H&R springs (from BMP/Promini) and the Bilstein SP's (which I got off eBay for $100 less than what Turner Motorsports charges). The H&R springs provided a measured 40mm drop front and rear (about 1.4" or so).

The H&R's were a bit harsh with the factory dampers - but with the Bilsteins the whole setup is just soooooo nice.

The H&R springs are 280 front and rear in the compressed range and are progressive - the rears have helper coils at the top that are wrapped with HD tubing to keep them from clacking around, which I really, really like.

In any event, I autocross a LOT and also do 4-5 track weekends a year. The H&R's were always very impressive. With the 19mm H&R rear swaybar, the car was always exquisitely balanced, but the Bilsteins were the missing link! :smile:

Update - so, the struts are breaking themselves in, and I have to say that they are getting firmer... http://www.metroplexmini.org/forum/i...es/biggrin.gif

Still, the ride is much more sophisticated than before but it has been getting firmer. Playing around a bit more with the car, I have found that it's much more stable closer to the cornering limits - and bumps won't upset the balance. In fact, with the MTH modified traction control, the Bilsteins have made it even harder to get the DSC to kick in! (I'd still turn it off for autocrossing and track, though - in fact, with the DSC off the car is wickedly sticky and a freakin' riot).

I'm still ecstatic... http://www.metroplexmini.org/forum/i...es/biggrin.gif

Scobib,

Would you say squat and dive are more controlled now? I'm trying to get a feel for the 'rate' of roll vs the stock set-up, but you also ahave a 19mm rear bar which will throw off your answer.

Yes, squat and dive are also more controlled now as is the roll...

Do they make an "HD" for the Mini right now, or just the SP?

I've been kicking around the idea of some Bilsteins for this car. Currently undecided.

Nope... they only make the SP's right now...

Scobib,

What are the spring rates for the H$R springs in your set-up? I did not know that the SP dampers can be mated to just about any progressive spring. I may opt for H-Sports and the SP dampers...unless your H$R rates are way softer than the H-Sports???

Update?

I believe the H&R's are 280 front and rear... I think some people have said they are 260, too... either way, they're right in that range!

Sorry Scobib, I actually knew the answer and forgot I searched it a week or so ago - 260 front and rear.:thumbsup:

The only part of the H$R set that bothers me is the 40mm drop. I'll give that some thought. I may think about combining H$R front springs with H-Sport rear springs. 260lb/in front and 300lb/in in the rear. I'm not sure I'll like a 195lb/in spring (H-Sport) up front...maybe a tad too soft for me. Gotta find out if there are any dynamic incompatabilities between H-Sport and H$R designs???:confused: In either scenerio, the SP's sound like a great damper. Thanks for this thread Scobib!:thumbsup:

By the way, somewhere Bilstein HD's came up...maybe in another thread. These are not speccified for lowering applications, only OEM replacement. They were at one point used for some lowering applications. I don't know why Bilstein discountinued that particular application. I can guess, but it'll only be a guess.

How about a link to these shocks. :thumbsup:

www.bilstein.com

Hope this helps Onaslad:thumbsup:

Bilstein or Tokico...come May I'll need to make a choice.

Scobib, after thinking a bit, the 40mm drop offered by H$R may not be such a bad thing up front; many of the camber kits, perhaps all the kits that mount under the strut tower, will raise the suspension a bit. H-Sports are said to lower about an inch. I think you wrote 1.4"(40mm) for H$R. 1/4" - 3/8" I think is the common rise for some of the camber kits.

Now, can I order just two springs from each manufacturer? ...that's the $250.00-$500.00 question.

That was me asking about the HD's. My Mini isn't lowered and probably won't be any time soon (I autocross it in H-Stock, so the springs have to stay stock). I can change the shocks, though. I think the HD's might be better with stock springs, but if they're not available, then I guess if I *do* get Bilsteins any time soon, it'll be the SP's :wink:

Does anyone else make an affordable single piston damper for the Mini?

Satay-ayam,

I don't know is my answer to your last question. But I think you will be very happy with Bilstein HD and perhaps SP, although I have no direct experience with SP dampers yet.

Post-autocross update...

Car took some getting used to!!!

The ONLY change made between last season and this season were the Bilstein SP's. Everything else was the same - same tires (Falken Azenis (RT-215's)), same wheels, etc.

After the morning runs, I wasn't sure if I liked the new setup or not. In the afternoon, though, I got dialed back in and found them to just be freakin' awesome. I didn't want to judge them unfairly until I fixed the nut behind the wheel, too. So, once I got that handled, I formed a judgment! :lol:

The car still seems very, very neutral. Car seemed more planted, too - but that inspired over-confidence in a couple spots on this month's course, which caused me to enter a couple tight lefties a bit hotter than I would have liked. I fixed that, though. I did notice that the rough surface at our autocross field didn't upset the car like it used to before in some spots - the spots that were causing many other people to get a bit sideways this month were simply a non-issue for me. Minor bumps were sucked up, major bumps didn't unsettle the car, and the car felt like it was on rails (when I wasn't overzealous in the corners mentioned earlier).

Easy to steer through corners with the throttle, get the car to rotate when I wanted, and keep on the power when I needed to. Less dive under heavy braking, too, and less transfer to the rear under hard acceleration. I found that on this particular course, I could just keep my foot on the go pedal in some of the sweepers and just keep on truckin'. I likey!

The car rides very, very firm with the H&R's and SP's - that would be my only caution to people. It's light-years better than the OEM struts with the H&R springs, though. I'm still very happy and won my class fairly handily(which is a class higher than I was running last season).

Now, the new RT-615's (Azenis) arrive next week to replace their older, very worn siblings (almost to the wear bar, got one or two more events in them), so that'll prolly change things again... :) Hopefully not much, though...

Hey Scobib,

I'm still following your thread. Your last comment about the ride being very very firm. How would you now compare the ride to the stock suspension's ride? Also, do you have an early model with the undiluted suspension?

I'm now looking at SSP9s...These are probably in a different handling/ride neighborhood

Ciao


Michael

Can you clarify this statement some?

I recently bought a car with H&R's and OEM shocks. I'm unhappy with it, not because of the spring rates, but because of the shocks' inability to control those rates. I'm trying to decide which shocks to go with. I've had good experiences with Koni in the past, even if their compression damping tends to be a little harsh.

Meb,

I do not AutoX, but I do a lot of track days, I have the PSS9s and I can tell you that the car rides as if its on rails. I was just at CMP this weekend with the SVT Cobra club, the only MINI to show up among the Mustangs and Vettes, the MINI was no match for this kind of HP but I was always sitting on their buts in the corners. I drive in the advance group so I gave a few mustang guys rides and I can tell youthey were all impressed on how well it handles thier comments were " This thing rides on rails great handling car " so go ahead and get the PSS9s you will love how it handles.

BTW: I ran day one on the softest setting and day two on setting 4, day one was great day two was so much more, I ran it on the 9 at VIR a few weeks ago and that was just awsome. wheels for CMP were Kosie KS T1 shod with Hoosier 205/40/17

Hey dkstone,


Thanks for your reply. How would you describe the ride on public roads? I know the dampers are adjustable. I ask because my last ride was very stiff. SST valved Koni dampers with 400lb linear rate springs and hard rubber bushings. My problem with Koni was the damping could not control the springs when set soft enough for the road - too many oscillations after the intitial compression stroke. The standard adjustable Koni dampers worked the same way, but less effectively.

The qualities Scobbi uses to describe the SP dampers and H$R springs feel right to me. Don't know if this is too soft.

Thanks.

Ciao

I had the MINI SS before the PSS9s install so the ride was pretty firm before the install. The difference to me is that now the car has less flex or movement compared to the SS, from my point of view its quite a bit stiffer yet not jarring, you will have the same problem if you ride over 1 inch road surface changes it will be hard on the fronts other than that, I like the ride much more that the SS, I think its a lot more compliant in every day use compared to the SS yet when pushed it feels like its on rails, all this at the lowest setting. I tried the highest setting #9 and would not recommend it for the road or for a track with rough pavement, you will feel every pebble and every bump no matter how small, on the track at speeds the #9 position rocks you point the car at speeds keep the trottle in and it goes where you want it.

Am I the only one who's confused by this statement?

1) you run high spring rates
2) you turn the rebound damping down
3) you complain that the shocks can't control the springs...

This is exactly what I'd expect. IMO, many people carry the adjustable shock thing to an extreme. Just because the adjustment range is there doens't mean that it's a useful setting - especially when you're talking about off-the-shelf shocks.

In general, any shock valved to correctly handle a spring rate is going to ride pretty close to the same. Of course, there are issues with the valving curve, digressive vs non, etc... Without seeing dyno charts (and knowing how to read them) it's just guessing though. And, since most of these companies wouldn't share a dyno chart if their lives depended on it things are even more difficult.

Typically, messageboard threads create as much confusion as they solve.

I didn't write that I expected the SST valving or stock Koni yellow valving to handle 400lb/in spring rebound when set in full soft. I wrote that both poorly controlled those spring rates at their softest setting, that's what I wrote - very clear, yes? I inferred that I am not interested in such a heavy spring rate for that exact reason.

The damping frequencies between front and rear were also not to my liking, among other things. Truechoice offers all damper dynos by the way. Actually, they dynoed my dampers free of charge after they had 80K miles on them - before the re-build - for their own edification.