My car is S, it understeers so much with stock suspension, so if you want to have more fun to be faster in a tight turn, then stiffer rear sway bar is the cheapest way to improve the understeer.

I did a little search before buying the nm bar, didn't find good pics from the forum, but how hard can it be, so just ordered it.

Installed it just now, instruction from nm is very helpful, it took me about 2-3 hours. Every step in nm instruction is needed, you do can skip any step, but it will end up taking longer and add difficulties to the job, so just follow it.

add 2 pics to explain why you need to drop the rear frame, very straightforward, just 4 bolts, and remove all. any bolt threaded in the chassis will give you trouble to reach bolt from inner bushing mount.



after removing all 4 bolts, you need to jack up the wheel hub to re-center the frame and chassis, otherwise the bolt will be about 1 inch away from the hole in the chassis. This isn't mentioned in nm instruction.

 

One more thing.

The 4 subframe bolts, when reinstalling, use the markings made by the washer heads to realign the subframe.
Otherwise your car will track wrong.

 

and dont do what I did and install it upside down or you get to do it twice! lol

 

Did that once!! HMM, what's that knocking???

 

I did coils at the same time and when I first dropped it down I gave it a little push and I was like damn these are firm. Turns out the car doesn't move much when the body is sitting on the rear sway lol.

 

Thanks for tip!

 

Hi guys, I changed my rear sway bar last week-end and... what a disaster... I had and still have a few issues so please bare with me as I'll state them in the order they appeared hoping to get some advice and sort them as I'm utterly disappointed with the outcome.

a) The dreaded second bolt of the sway bar bushing, There was just not enough space to access it and get a ratchet in there, unless having a friend pulling down with a crowbar which didn't feel safe at all as at any point where the crowbar would slip fingers were at stake. Somehow after lots of struggling and cursing we did but isn't there a better way for that?

b) Getting the sway bar out and the new arb in. Again the same problem, the sub-frame drop is just not enough to pass the bar through, and again you need crowbars (2x this time) to pull down A LOT in order to find clearance. This REALLY can't be the right way, there must be something additional that you can un-do in order to allow the bar to pass?
we were pulling down on the sub-frame at the limit of what we felt was safe. When I read in the service manual "then just fish-out the arb" my face becomes red from anger considering what the actual situation was and how much time we spent trying to route it all sorts of ways while pulling down at the same time.
Again any way to do this more efficiently? Remove end-links and shock maybe?

c) Upon reinstalling we were faced with the issue of the sub-frame bolts not aligning with the chassis holes. I figured the sub-frame needed some moving so I jacked it up the jack and 3/4 bolts went in smoothly but the outer left one felt like exceptional torque was needed to get in. After several tiring hours already I didn't have the courage to address this properly and I probably under-tightened this. After removal and inspection the following day I discovered a couple of threads slightly damaged and some metal burr on the bolt but I did manage to torque it to 100Nm and the same for the other 3 bolts.

Now, upon test-driving, every time the car goes over some undulation/pothole/speed-bump at not exactly the same moment for the rear left and rear right wheel, I get a fairly loud and clear KNOCKING noise, as if I forgot a spanner somewhere inbetween the sub-frame and the chassis. It doesn't happen during cornering (surprisingly), doesn't happen during braking or accelerating, only when one wheel is going over a different piece of road (height-wise) than the other. Originally I thought I have damaged the threads on the chassis for the outer left bolt and the sub-frame is loose, but with 3/4 bolts properly torqued and the 4th one also firmly tightened eventually, I doubt it's that. It really sounds like the sway bar hits something.
I don't much free time to spare this period so I would take it even to a BMW but I think they'll be more clueless than I am, is it the end-links? is it the suspension? the sub-frame? damaged chassis threads? It could take days for them to figure it out, especially since the car has a lot of aftermarket items (sway-bar, springs, exhaust etc. etc.)


And then I went online seeking for advice, and to my delight I read @TVPostSound 's comment about inverse installation and knocking and found some hope. I will go and check the orientation of the bar this evening although we did check twice during installation but hit happens...

IF it is installed in the opposite way, can you please share tips as to how the process can be easier this time? I have done sway bars in 3 different cars without having to drop the sub-frame and everything was a breeze. On the F56 it's been a nightmare during and after and I've even considered getting rid just for that If I can't fix it soon.

Sorry for my long post, looking forward to some advice from the wiser owners than myself!

 

All I can say, is pull the subframe down more, nothing will break, beware of the solid brake lines in the keepers, they are against the floor.
You can pop those out, just remember to put them back in.
Use a piece if 2X4 to wedge it and hold down.
When raising the subframe back, do not push it all the way up against the body, leave a 1/4" gap, then you can use a bar to align it.
If you dont think you put the subframe back in its original position (the through holes are larger than the bolts) then you need to have the rear toe re-adjusted.

Your bar should look like this after install:
If its upside down, the down curve you see will be up and hit the frame.

 

Thanks! Much appreciated. So it's all down to pulling as strong as you can on the sub-frame? Can't believe this is really how you're supposed to work on this but maybe I'm just too cautious.

Unfortunately I just checked my installation and the bar seems to be installed correctly. Starting from the ends at the end-links and moving towards the inside, the bar first lowers a little then raises slightly until it turns towards the inside, if it was wrong it should be rising right after the end section which is not the case.

That leaves me wondering as to the cause of the knocking... Any ideas to at least eliminate possible suspects? Can it really be that the sub-frame is ever so slightly loose with 3/4 bolts fully torqued and the 4th one torqued to probably 60-80% ?

 

Which brand's bar are you using??

 

I noticed from your previous post, you're using the Hardrace bar.
Looking at their website, I do not see collars outside of the place the bushings lie.
If thats the case, then your bar is sliding horizontally. Ive seen that in my case.

For the moment, install the OEM links, see if it helps keep the bar from sliding.
I see you're using adjustable links. They dont keep the bar locked horizontally

The factory glues their bushings on the bar, aftermarket use neoprene, but needs collars.

You are in Europe? Get the H&R bar.
TunerShop can get them

 

Correct, it's the Hardrace one, haven't used them before but people I've spoken to have been satisfied with them. They were the only option offering just a rear bar instead of the front&rear combo which I didn't want to go for. It seems like the typical sway bar design, nothing fancy, and same for the bushings, they are open, rubber ones with a steel bracket on top. I've used bars of such design in the past without issues, and even the H&R features the same bushings design if I'm not mistaken so in theory nothing different here.

As you say, OEM design (not just on MINI but also on VAG cars) features the bushings glued to the bar but aftermarket ones don't, yet that doesn't usually cause the sliding issue you describe in other applications.

One thing I can suspect now talking about sliding is whether the bushing bolts are torqued properly and what that torque would be considering the new ones are much easier for the bar to slide through than OEM glued ones. However the bar didn't come with new bushing bolts so I assumed a similar torque should be applied, will drop the supplier an email tomorrow to ask for instructions.

I lost you on the end links, i don't use adjustable ones, wanted but couldn't find any supplier in Sweden, so I re-used the OEM ones.

 

A properly setup bar with neoprene bushings will let the bar fall slowly under its own weight when the links are removed.

Im saying that the Hardrace DO NOT have collar stays. The H&R does.

Compare yours to mine.
See the rings next to the bushing??
They matter!!

I tried a bar and link without them, the bar would hit the spring when shifted.

Then tried the H&R noise gone.

 

https://www.suspension.com/blog/dst-...fting-no-more/

 

Heres NM engineering instructions, if you need to see if you missed anything.
Their first design did not have collars, they have since added them.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/02...847_44.pdf?259

 

Gotcha! I was thinking of something else but it's very clear now what you meant. Then again, I had some Whiteline ARBs in the past with the exact same collar-less design and no sliding/knocking, but different car in question so might not mean a lot in the end.

I also noticed today wear marks at the ends of the sway bar, as if scratching/hitting against something so you might be on to something with the sliding suspicion.

The lateral locks make lots of sense in that case, I already found some for 21-22mm bars like mine on online shops that could ship to me and will most probably give them a go. They're meant for Whiteline but I don't see why they wouldn't work with mine if selecting the correct diameter. Might try to zip tie an old gopro down there first though just to make sure!

Thanks for all your input so far, I'll hopefully get to the bottom of this

 

Add on lateral locks might not work, they are too thick, and will rub the subframe.
I had an issue with H&R's built in locks had to get NM engineering bushings and billet caps to have the bar raise higher.
My bar is 25mm, they might be fine with a 22mm.

Look at this picture, for reference.
Rear bars on MINIs dont sit on a platform.

 

Again thanks so much for trying to help on this. I just went out to remove the wheels in order to take some photos to send to the Hardrace supplier and being at it, I tried pulling and shaking the whole sway-bar/end-links assembly and to my surprise I felt a bit of play between them.

Apparently the end-link nuts had not been tightened enough, so with much enthusiasm I did tighten them, went out to test drive and... the knocking was all gone!

I can't describe the amount of joy right now...

 

any suggestions on how to add grease to the bushings while its still installed (currently installed with the stock plastic bushing mounts)? I got a whiteline rear sway bar installed and it creaks real bad. I ended up getting some spray super lube and spray the bushing while its still on the car. itll be good for a few weeks and it will start creaking again. I don't want to take it apart to re-grease (aka basically redoing the entire job) if possible

 

Add grease nipples to the brackets and drill a small hole through the bushing. You only really need to get the brackets out to do this. If you have split bushings, they come out easily too. If not, shuffle them somewhere you can get a drill at them.

 

This job is a whole lot easier if you disconnect the rear tie bars. That allows you to pull the subframe backwards some inches, then drop some inches. You will need to unclip brake lines. Then the front bracket bolts are merely bloody awkward to get at. This is almost essential on an SE, unless you want to drop the battery? Mark everything first, and the alignment won't be affected much. I don't recommend a 25mm or even a solid 22mm for an SE, too stiff. I would love to know what the hollow 22mm hardrace bar weighs, it may be about right for an SE. I currently have a stiffer factory bar on my SE, but haven't spun it in months. 😁