When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
SuspensionSprings, struts, coilovers, sway-bars, camber plates, and all other modifications to suspension components for Clubman (R55), Cooper and Cooper S (R56), and Cabrio (R57) MINIs.
Just went in to get an alignment done at a local garage that is trusted. They measured the car and came back with values that were way off.
My primary concern is with the camber on the front/passenger side. Knowing it's not really adjustable (unless removing pins), if the camber is totally off, is that a sign of damage to the suspension? The tech seems to suggest that but they couldn't know for sure unless they starting to remove stuff to have it diagnosed. The result is that they could not do an alignment if a component is damaged and needed to be replaced.
Attached is are the specs I got back. Anyone familiar with alignment specs, please chime in with your thoughts.
Update 02/24/2016:
Went to two garages yesterday and both came to the same conclusion that it's likely that the strut (assembly) is bent. Both noted that there could only be four possibilities:
Strut
Control Arm/Ball joint
Tie Rods
Axle Carrier
Control arm/ball joint and tie rods were checked throughly as one could and found no signs of any damage. The axle carrier is made of solid steel (?) so the likelihood of that even bending without causing any damage to the other components was not likely.
Now, having 3 garages tell me the same thing, would it even be worth it to bring it back to MINI and pay the $200 to have them check it out and see if they come up with another suggestion?
Update 03/21/2016:
Took it back to MINI for them to begin diagnosing and correcting the error. See: Post below.
Last edited by TheBingoBalls; Mar 21, 2016 at 10:11 AM.
If that is really an accurate representation of the alignment, I think that you would feel it with the car pulling one way and also uneven tire wear. Did you buy the car used? Almost looks like someone put it sideways into a curb.
If the car tracks straight without any correction and the tires are wearing evenly then take it to another shop. Otherwise start checking your suspension - struts, bushings, etc. You didn't say what model, year, or mileage but read up for the stuff that wears out.
If that is really an accurate representation of the alignment, I think that you would feel it with the car pulling one way and also uneven tire wear. Did you buy the car used? Almost looks like someone put it sideways into a curb.
If the car tracks straight without any correction and the tires are wearing evenly then take it to another shop. Otherwise start checking your suspension - struts, bushings, etc. You didn't say what model, year, or mileage but read up for the stuff that wears out.
To clarify, I'm not questioning the alignment analysis. It's correct, the car drifts to the left when the steering wheel is dead centre.
My concern is with the front passenger wheel. Knowing that the R56 has very limited camber adjustment (-0.5 with pin removed?), if my camber is that off spec, is that indicative of a damaged suspension part?
I bought the car new and do all the maintenance on my own post new car maintenance plan. I just never had to deal with any suspension issues/alignment issues until now. I did remove the wheel and checked everything but there's nothing that sticks out to indicate that something is damaged.
I should note that if I stick my hand behind between the strut and rear of the wheel on the side in question (front passenger), there is very little room for my hand to fit vs. the driver side where I can comfortably fit four fingers.
You bought it new but has anybody else been driving it and not telling you the whole story?
Another family member primarily drives it. Didn't mean to leave this out, there is a curb rash to that wheel. The severity of it doesn't seem to look any worse than a curb rash from parking too close to a curb. It's probably what happened, but given the lack of noticeable damage, hard to really conclude anything.
I was looking at the the suspension area on RealOEM, if there is now more negative camber, what can possibly be bent from curbing? If a curb was hit, wouldn't that result in positive camber from being hit from the bottom of the wheel? From the diagram attached, the only way that I could see the strut being bent is if the carrier/wheel was hit so hard that it caused the strut to bend where it connects to the carrier (part number 2).
Looks like something may have happened to the right front and right rear.
The total front toe is ok, but the individual numbers indicate the steering wheel isn't
centered. Either put up with that, or adjust the front toe (increase on one side and
decrease on the other by the same amount) so that the steering wheel is centered
when the front tires are centered. An easy fix if the tie rods adjusting threads aren't
frozen tight.
The right front camber is a bit high compared to stock numbers, the left front is close
enough. Might want to check out for something bent on the right front, but since they're
within a half a degree of each other, and in a reasonable range for a MINI to be driven
in a spirited manner, might accept it as is (if you had camber plates, many would set
them to -1.5 to -2.0 anyway if you want an aggressive setup, and stock camber is about -0.5).
Total rear toe is ok, but would probably want to bring the left rear one closer to 0 to
even things out. This can be done via the trailing arm bolts.
Rear camber is a bit uneven with the right rear one a bit less than the stock -1.5.
Some would like want rear camber a little lower at about -1.0 anyway, so if there's
some adjustment possible, bring the left rear closer to 0 and the right rear further
to even things out.
I should note that if I stick my hand behind between the strut and rear of the wheel on the side in question (front passenger), there is very little room for my hand to fit vs. the driver side where I can comfortably fit four fingers.
Looks like something may have happened to the right front and right rear.
The total front toe is ok, but the individual numbers indicate the steering wheel isn't
centered. Either put up with that, or adjust the front toe (increase on one side and
decrease on the other by the same amount) so that the steering wheel is centered
when the front tires are centered. An easy fix if the tie rods adjusting threads aren't
frozen tight.
The right front camber is a bit high compared to stock numbers, the left front is close
enough. Might want to check out for something bent on the right front, but since they're
within a half a degree of each other, and in a reasonable range for a MINI to be driven
in a spirited manner, might accept it as is (if you had camber plates, many would set
them to -1.5 to -2.0 anyway if you want an aggressive setup, and stock camber is about -0.5).
Total rear toe is ok, but would probably want to bring the left rear one closer to 0 to
even things out. This can be done via the trailing arm bolts.
Rear camber is a bit uneven with the right rear one a bit less than the stock -1.5.
Some would like want rear camber a little lower at about -1.0 anyway, so if there's
some adjustment possible, bring the left rear closer to 0 and the right rear further
to even things out.
Thanks for your input Cristo.
Despite the numbers, the tech said there isn't a problem adjusting the rears to the correct spec. He could have adjusted what needed to be adjusted but advised not to because the front right was so out of spec, even if they managed to get everything close to what they were, the car would still drift or slide to the side where there was more negative camber.
So my question is assuming a stock car, if you were to remove the pin, what would be the camber value (max, min)? If it's less than what is shown above, something would have to be bent, correct? I just want to see if there is a real fix to put it back into spec if possible. It would be unfortunate to have to replace both sides to get it back to what it should be from a small accident.
Right front, check all the suspension bushings and the top of the shock tower. Also the strut itself. The mounting holes in the top of the shock tower are actually slots so the bolts can slide side to side, check to see of the bolts are all the way to the inside which would maximize negative camber. I think you can only get to about -0.7 to -0.9 deg of camber with the pin out, so it looks like something is worn out or bent.
In the back, I'm confused - the numbers on the chart are negative which says the tops of the tires should be tipped in towards the body of the car, but the graphic shows the opposite.
Negative camber really improves the handling on the Mini, I have front camber plates are adjustable rear control arms and am at -2 deg. all around. Really makes a difference. Once you get the problem sorted out, ask the shop to set the front camber as negative as they can get and then the back to spec.
Right front, check all the suspension bushings and the top of the shock tower. Also the strut itself. The mounting holes in the top of the shock tower are actually slots so the bolts can slide side to side, check to see of the bolts are all the way to the inside which would maximize negative camber. I think you can only get to about -0.7 to -0.9 deg of camber with the pin out, so it looks like something is worn out or bent.
In the back, I'm confused - the numbers on the chart are negative which says the tops of the tires should be tipped in towards the body of the car, but the graphic shows the opposite.
75,000km/47,000 miles.
A quick check was the first thing I did when I got home from the alignment. There was no give or play in any of the suspected components. Even checked the top of the strut inside the engine bay to see if there was anything wrong, broken or cracked. Nothing.
That was the original plan. If the front right camber was in the range of what it should be stock with the pin removed, I would remove the pin on the driver side to get it almost equal. But like I said, it's way out of spec.
When it gets a bit warmer, will probably have to fully jack up the car to get a better view of the actual strut position and layout and see what is potentially bent.
Pretty unfortunate situation. The bright side, if it comes down to having to replace stuff, I would likely look into a JCW retrofit kit. Keep it OEM but get a bit more aggressive without affecting ride height.
It looks like the pictures for the camber show how they differ from stock settings.
The left front is vertical because it is near normal spec, the rears are tipped in at
the top because they are at less than the stock rear camber of -1.5, and the front
right is tipped out because -1.5 is more negative camber than stock.
Suggestion: get the front of the car up on jackstands and remove the wheel. Then put a jack under the wheel bearing/axle carrier (#2 in the picture in your original post) to support it, and remove the 3 nuts at the top of the shock tower that hold the strut mount in place. (#1 in the pic below.) Then carefully lower the jack, you should be able to lower it far enough to inspect the top of the strut and the top strut mount to see if anything is bent, or if the rubber in the strut mount is failing. Be careful to not stress the brake line.
My guess is that any problem would be right at the top where the shaft from the strut goes into the mount. Also check that the spring is properly seated on the perches (#7 and on the strut.) If you want to remove the whole assembly then loosen the pinch bolt at the bottom (#4 in the pic in your original post) and pull the strut up and out. It is tight but there is enough room to get the whole strut/spring assembly out.
I wouldn't spend an additional $200 to have Mini diagnose it- put the money toward a new set of Koni FSDs.
The entire assembly looks like this. Note the bumpstop (#9) and dustboot (#10) are pushed down to show the shaft of the strut.
If the shaft or entire strut is bent I'd expect it to bind and make noise when compressed, and also for there to be signs of the oil leaking out of the strut.
Took the car into MINI for them to begin diagnosing and correcting the error. As expected, they came to the same diagnosis: either it's a bent strut and/or carrier/knuckle but not the control arm.
I attached the alignment below. My question is, looking at the final measurement, the front right camber is still out of tolerance but how significant is that with regards to drivability and wear? Right now I'm likely looking at rotating wheels more frequently but if that's the most I would need to keep my eye on, I think I would rather save the $3,000.
The tech could have easily told me to replace those things but he did a four wheel alignment, including removing the alignment pins and got everything into spec with the exception of the front right wheel (as expected) and informed me that while it's off, it's not that significant. The option is still there if I wanted to replace the strut(s).
If you're not getting any noise, binding, or other misbehavior out of the right front, get the left front set to the same negative camber as the right and enjoy the handling benefits. I have been at -2 degrees camber all around for 18 months with no noticeable adverse wear.
If you're not getting any noise, binding, or other misbehavior out of the right front, get the left front set to the same negative camber as the right and enjoy the handling benefits. I have been at -2 degrees camber all around for 18 months with no noticeable adverse wear.
Drove around the city for about an hour (both roads and highway) and didn't notice anything out of the ordinary so everything seems to be ok considering one side has more negative camber.
Right now, I'm probably going to hold off with the repair and see what happens. With the car approaching 80,000km, I'm probably going to start looking into either the JCW suspension retrofit or go aftermarket coilovers to replace in the near future. I don't see the point in replacing one or both sides with stock struts.
As for getting more negative camber, I would need camber plates? If so, not going to bother for the reason listed in the previous paragraph.
Do the "free camber mod" on the left side: get the front end up on jack stands, loosen the nuts at the top of the shock tower, make sure the plastic alignment pin has been removed, then push the top of the shock toward the center of the car so the threaded studs at the top go all the way to the end of their slotted holes. Re-torque the nuts and you're done.
Then save your pennies and dimes for a brand new set of coilovers and camber plates.
