DSC OFF
Dry Road

Under hard cornering I notice the rear end beginning to slide and if I have to brake It fells like it would skid. Try accelerating heavily in a corner and then release the throttle, you'll feel this effect.

I am looking for suspension mods that will lessen this effect. I was thinking larger front & rear sway bars or possibly some sort mod that will flatten out tail end when cornering. I am a novice so I think a sway bar will lessen this "swaying" feeling from the car. Am I right ?

I know... first thing is, why are you decelerating anyway, chicken...

Any feedback or suggestions would be appreciated.

Kesh

 

Yes, a stouter rear anti-sway bar will lessen this affect, and yes, letting off the gas and/or hitting the brakes mid-corner eats up available traction FAST. So I'd say get a larger rear sway bar and work on your entry speed.

 

Thanks for the info.

I will have to ask DaveinDenver if he ever installed a rear sway bar

Kesh

 

Your talking about "Lift off oversteer"

Some people have found this to their racing advantage due to the overabundant understeer that can be present with the MINI.

For example, coming hard into a turn (around a cone) then lift off the throttle and let the back end lighten up and come around.

It can get a little nerve racking on a freeway on ramp though if your not ready for it.

I have found that even when the back end releases the car is still incredibly controllable, infact becomes much more neutral feeling when it is sliding. :smile:

 

I too like the lil' bit of oversteer... with all the understeer, it's nice to be able to slightly induce a little bit of slide...

Rocketboy_X

 

What you are experiencing, as ficcion accurately stated, is known as lift throttle oversteer. This is caused by the forward weight transfer which occurs upon deceleration (lifting off the throttle and/or getting on the brakes). What happens when you hit your brakes in any car? Your nose dives, maybe not so much on your mini as in "your father's Oldsmobile" but the weight transfer physics is the same.
So, therefore your quote:
"I know... first thing is, why are you decelerating anyway, chicken... "
Is more accurate than you may have known when you wrote it. By decelerating, you are transferring weight off of the back wheels, reducing the amount of traction available to them. Keeping on the throttle a bit keeps the weight on the back tires. Obviously, on the street it is advisable to avoid these traction limits due to uncontrollable variables and innocent bystanders.
A larger rear sway bar has the potential to make this phenomenon more dangerous if you do not know what you're doing. True, you will get less body roll in the back end. You will likely get a marginal increase in the absolute traction limit of the rear end. The flip side is that when all available traction is used up you will get "snap oversteer" which means your back end is hanging way out, you are in an uncontrolled spin and you didn't have the body roll to warn you that it was about to happen. :smile:

P.S. This is why cars stock cars are designed to oversteer (push) whereas in race cars it tends to be easier to induce oversteer (tail happiness).

 

Thanks Astro
I love people who know what they are talking about , not those who think they know. They could get someone hurt.
I still call myself a novice although I have gained some hands on knowledge in Japan while Drifting(power sliding thru curves) and Gym Kana(AutoX) with TSCC.
(Tokyo Sports Car Club)

 

>>DSC OFF
>>Dry Road
>>
>>Under hard cornering I notice the rear end beginning to slide and if I have to brake It fells like it would skid. Try accelerating heavily in a corner and then release the throttle, you'll feel this effect.
>>
>>I am looking for suspension mods that will lessen this effect.

My first question would be, "if you want to MINIMIZE this effect (as opposed to "USE" it for faster exit speed), then why not turn your DSC "ON". This will likely take care of it for you at no cost. (I presume from your note that you "have" DSC, but are trying to correct behavior that only occurs when it is "off&quot.

As noted by other responders, most of the things that you do to control this will result in higher cornering speeds, but much more rapid loss of control (when all goes "awry&quot. ESPECIALLY if you find the feeling "uncomfortable", it would be unwise "raise the stakes" just yet. The BEST thing to do is to take an advanced driving class (Bondurant, etc), and let them take you out on a skid pad. This will allow you to learn (safely) how to raise the limits of your cornering, with expert instruction. The better schools have road courses, skid pads, slalom courses, etc; and they cost about as little as a couple of tires and/or wheels.

 

"Under hard cornering I notice the rear end beginning to slide and if I have to brake It fells like it would skid. Try accelerating heavily in a corner and then release the throttle, you'll feel this effect."

My friend Tom has raced Mini's for many years and he says you have to be confident entering any turn and KEEP YOUR FOOT IN IT. It can be hair-raising, but the car will follow you around. Oh, and don't worry about the back end - it's right there behind you!

It's not a matter of "being chicken", just get to know your car and save your money for some front-end mods - like air flow! Motor on!

 

The last time I had my VW GTI at the local road track, I found myself going backwards and into a grassy prarie dog town real quick when I let off on the throttle at just the wrong moment.

I had gone into a very gentle S turn too fast on the first apex to really have the right line to hit the more important apex of the second part of the combined turn. I let off on the throttle a bit trying to get to where I wanted to be on the track rather than sacrificing a little speed through the next turn. The rear end decided that it wanted to try being a front bumper for a while and I spun 180' and rolled backwards off the track.

No harm done except that I learned a valuable lesson that I knew only theoretically until I got my chance to experience it first hand. Fortuately, the other cars on the track were not nearbly and I was quick thinking enough to control the spin/skid and get the car safely out of the way of the other cars on the track.

I

 

Istead of lifting, keep the right foot down and left foot brake to modulate the attitude of the car. Watching Seedvision you can see brake lights lite up but you can head the motor is under load. That what they are doing left foot brakers. I started doing this when I ran FWD Saabs in the 60's. Practice and you will find the urg (sp) to lift will occurr less often, but I'm an old man what do I know.

Motor on