Hey all,

Please dont flame me for the title!!

Friends and myself always have the debate, "to go with coilovers or not".
I have done coilovers on my previous cars, and when its all set and in place, never adjusted them! So the argument comes in, why not just set up the suspension first time with decent shocks/springs, and run with that. (over here your looking at $1700 for the coilovers...then a further $500-$700 getting them certified to be allowed on the road = not a cheap process)

My car is R53 Cooper S
Car is currently lowered, but havent jacked her up since buying it yet to see what is exactly underneath.
Im fast road / one track day a year driving / the odd drag wars meet.

Sorry if this has been covered somewhere...ive read so many posts that I started to get more confused than before I started lol

I want to minimize the front bounce when accel around a corner. Better traction. And just to make her a really great fun handling go cart

Anyways, what I am wanting to know please, is say I dont go for coilovers but decent shocks and springs, what else is a good upgrade while im at it?

- Is it worth doing all the drop links? Just the front, or just the rear, and both top and bottom rear?
- RCA's
- Adjustable control arms
- Powerflex bushes (only certain ones? or all!)

What else am I missing? Am I going OTT with doing the above?

Budget: not the biggest, and is harder been here in NZ as currency conversion plus shipping kills it a bit

Matt

 

I was thinking about this set up question exactly. I am autocrossing so it may be a bit more biased.

What I am thinking:

Linear rate spring (TSW, Swift)
Koni Yellows
adjustable rear control arms (lower for camber adjustment)
adjustable front sway bar end links
adjustable front camber plates

I just don't see a need coil overs as I am never going to change the height. I feel that i will get better quality/performing damper (and accessories) for equivalent money of entry level coil overs.

If I wanted to blow 3K on a track only suspension, this would be a different conversation.

 

Awesome cheers dude, that sounds perfect!
Whats a decent brand of camber plates?

Also, what bushes are good to replace while im at it?

 

Height adjustment is handy to adjust corner weights. However the mini is pretty balanced from the factory and it's not really necessary until you're trying to extract the last bit of speed.

Your list is a pretty good start but its still not cheap. $300 for springs, $350 for camber plates, $600 for shocks (depending on what you get). Suddenly some KWs don't seem too expensive.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using NAMotoring

 

Here's a review thread I made on a good spring + strut combo:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...-and-more.html

I really like my suspension set up.

The Tein H techs are good but no longer available. S-techs are not good for performance.

Swifts would be my next choice but they're pretty firm. JCW springs are another option. The TSWs are pretty soft.

I'm switching to custom valved Bilsteins soon. The Konis are good but I can't leave well enough alone.

- Andy

 

IMO if your priority is handling (as in max cornering speeds) then you should be looking at springs that have a minimal drop. Yes lowering your vehicle will lower its center of gravity and reduce load transfer to the outside tires. However, on strut suspensions, it also buggers up the camber curve which will reduce the tires' contact patch on the road.

Lame that stock height springs with a rate increase are next to impossible to find.

 

^ Agreed and not only that, there isn't much travel so you'll be well into the bumpstops at rest.

- Andy

 

Except that camber loss is easily fixed. Combine camber plates with spring rates that don't allow for multiple inches of travel and your issues with camber loss under compression are pretty well mitigated.

You won't either. Properly designed suspension has shorter shock bodies so that you can run lower ride heights while still maintaining similar bump and droop travel to stock.

While in theory vehicle suspensions may work better at factory ride height the fact is that time and time again it's been proven that lower ride heights are faster. The top STF mini and the top STX mini at 2014 Solo Nationals (Chhit and Wilcox) were both pretty low on 15" wheels. Not to mention every other fast production-based car there that was lowered as far as possible while still keeping the tire from contacting the chassis. We run 12 5/8" from hub center to top of the wheel arch and have no issues with camber loss under compression or hitting the bump stops. I'd go lower if we could fit the dumb 235/17 tire under the fender.

 

I was referring to springs on fixed perch dampers. You're on the bumpstops almost all the time. Coilovers are a different story.

 

Not all fixed perch dampers have the same overall shock length as the factory shocks. You're right though in that if you install lowering springs on the factory shocks (or ones with the same dimensions) you're likely to come in contact with the bump stops.

 

There is merit to what you are describing but I do not think it ideal for a daily driver/weekend warrior. Using race-rate springs (and consequently race-rate dampeners) and dialing in boatloads of negative camber to minimize camber loss can work to ensure that there is a full contact patch on the outside tire. However, this will produce a race-hard ride, question the need for aggressive chassis stiffening, reduce straight line braking and acceleration (since the wheels will be tilted heavily inward at equilibrium), and make the steering squirrely.


Interesting. I know that theory and reality are often at odds (really just says that the theory is wrong), but from my (albeit limited) autocross experience, there is a certain psychology among enthusiasts that track cars 'have' to be lowered. This may well be the case with cars that have suspension designs that react better to lowering (e.g. double wishbone) but in general I never really saw any heavily modified cars that were kept at near stock ride height. I guess what I am asking is can we really make an apples to apples comparison?

 

Depends on how much of a warrior you are on the weekend
Some people can put up with a lot. I don't think it's particularly difficult to come up with a compromise setup that does well as a DD and a auto-x/track car. I've got a set of tires with about 15k street miles on them with over 3 degrees of camber and they're wearing just fine. Not perfect but certainly acceptable. Considering said individual will likely be driving around daily on their competition tires a few degrees of camber isn't going to hurt anything. Good shocks help mask the stiffer spring rates also.

Yes. Strut cars, double a-arm cars, doesn't matter. They need to get low for ultimate performance. There are plenty of D Street Prepared BMWs running around that wish they could get lower. As it is they generate enough grip (on a good surface like Wilmington/Lincoln) to bicycle (get up on two wheels). Most fast/modified auto-x cars run the cars as low as they can without the tire contacting the frame/unibody under compression. No when you get that low the suspension geometry isn't ideal but the benefits outweigh the downsides. The really modified cars (modified/prepared classes) have some allowances to change suspension mounting points so that you can correct the suspension geometry you've ruined from lowering.

 

Agreed that the different in price would not be scary, but what would I hope to gain with the coil overs over the setup mentioned. I am not trying to argue, I really am interested. I run my MINI in STX (JCW pack) and want to have a bit more adjustability and better cornering.

This is still my DD as well for the next 1.5 years, so I had always known coil overs to be quite a compromise in NVH on the street.

 

Coilovers would give you the ability to easily change spring rates to tune the ride quality and handling of the car. If you don't like the ride quality or handling on the lowering springs you're stuck with them.

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