I just got the sway bar (H-Sport 22m middle hole) put on over the weekend. I've never driven a rear wheel drive car in any kind of performance capacity. At first, the effect was just flatter turning, which I thoroughly enjoyed.

Then, last night, I was pushing the car a little harder around a turn and the rear end slid out, which surprised me, however I just applied what I remember from my racing school and the car straigtened out. I believe this is normal and that some oversteer is the effect of the sway bar. It does, however, make me a little nervous since I don't have experience with intentional oversteer. No better time to learn, and it seems like fun but I'd hate to lose control, and at the same time, I'd hate to not be able to drive my car hard!

I'm going to the Dragon this weekend. I used to know the limits of my car, but the sway bar has changed things a little, and the limits are a little different.

Any tips would be appreciated. I'm definitely going to attend some autocrosses to practice driving with the sway bar. In the meantime....

Thanks!

 

What setting do you have the bar on? the tightest?

 

A mistake I see made is that people look where the oversteer is taking them and their hands follow their eyes. The result is you don't correct properly.

Don't jam the brakes either.

Just my tips, I like to "practice" my oversteer.

-Jim

 

I had two passengers (one in the backseat). That may have had something to do with it, I'm not sure. They freaked out though, thinking I had totally lost control, which is understandable since your average driver never experience oversteer unless they are out of control. I knew I hadn't completely lost control but I was startled by how easy the rear seemed to slip out because while I was driving around the corner hard, it wasn't that sharp of a turn and it seemed to happen when exiting the turn not in the turn.

 

As it's in the middle hole, I would recommend you start with it on the softest setting. I guess that would be the hole furthest away from the bend. That's how I will be going along with it because the softest setting might be just fine for me, it all depends on the style and roads (or tracks) you tend to go on. If you have passengers, the suspension gets heavily affected by their additional weight and I would advise you don't go near the cars limits as they are probably a little lower too. Often times a lot more weight may cause you to understeer as the car height might have gone lower in the rear, skewing your suspension dynamics, but this might not be the case with the bar you have on now. Just go softer on it and practice often at speeds you feel comfortable at and raise the bar as you know what to expect. Hope that helps.

 

So long as you don't lift and/or brake, the normal persons panic reaction to oversteer, it is completely controllable. Hold throttle keep looking where you are going, not where the rear end is headed or the nose is pointing, and your steering will naturally correct. The MINI is very well balanced, and very hard to spin.

Now my other car is a '90 Mustang GT with a Kenne Bell supercharger, which I have set up for drifting. With a totally flat torque curve ranging from 460ft/lbs at 2200rpm to 440ft/lbs at 6000rpm, oversteer is the norm. Driving this thing has taught me well the lessons of snap oversteer and proper sideways driving techniques. Compared to it the MINI is bolted to the road.

 

I bet that what happened is you went into the turn and about half way through you lifted your foot from the gas pedal...that enduces oversteer (BIGTIME) but when you got back on throttle, your car started going where it was pointing.

I never understood how that works, just that it does.

L

 

MIDDLE HOLE! YOU CAN'T HAAANDLE THE MIDDLE HOLE....

Actually, you'll find that the oversteer you experienced probably happened at a much higher "G" rating than the understeer without the rear bar. I was amazed at how well the car stuck in a corner after the bar was installed. If you can find a good "Idiot" circle where you can go around several times. I have one just down the road from me and you can really practice oversteer driving. On the gas and you should be turning with little or no understeer and letting off the throttle while at the limit in the corner should induce slight oversteer. Back on the gas again and the oversteer should go away. It's fun to blip the throttle while in a corner and you can completely control oversteer. I haven't spun my MINI yet but I've done some serious fish tailing on the track at high speeds. Backend never came around completely. Braking while turning can generate oversteer. Kinda the opposite of a RWD car where accelerating while turning generates oversteer.

 

I have not put the H-sport on yet, but I will. My buddies tell me I can't "drift" my FWD. I'll show them. I could easily drift my modded vdub's back in the day.

 

>>I bet that what happened is you went into the turn and about half way through you lifted your foot from the gas pedal...that enduces oversteer (BIGTIME) but when you got back on throttle, your car started going where it was pointing.
>>
>>I never understood how that works, just that it does.
>>
>>L


My understanding of why oversteer is induced by lifting the gas pedal in FWD cars is that the front tires suddenly slow down and the back are trying to catch up. Perhaps someone can explain it better. I did this once at an Auto-X on a corner and completely spun around, you can hear that I lifted off the gas.What not to do video

<A HREF="https://www.northamericanmotoring.com/albums/album04/Mini_X_2b1.jpg" TARGET="_blank">
His, Chile RED over, Madness intake, Magnaflow exhaust, Helix 15% Pulley &amp; RDR Swaybar
Hers, Electric Blue / Union Jack on top and BONE Stock

 

Unless you're into gymkana i would use the softer settings. Streets have
so many different surfaces, debris, etc. that you'll never know when your
rear's gonna slip out from under you while you drive spiritedly through
the turns.

you only get one or 2 chances at best to correct your turn while you slip
towards the rails (or edge of cliff?) Don't take chances with oversteer
unless you know exactly what you're doing.

 

Lift throttle oversteer (what you guys are discussing) is caused by weight transfer. When you back off the gas weight transfers to the front tires, which increases their grip. Since the weight effectively is reduced on the rear tires, their grip level drops and they potentially break free. Reapplying throttle reverses the situation and transfers weight back towards the rear of the car, thus increasing the potential grip levels of the rear tires. RWD cars are also subject to this same situation, though they have the added &quot;issue&quot; of dealing with the addtional power application through the rear tires when you apply the throttle. Thus power oversteer.

The early 911s, as well as Mustangs, are famous for entering a corner and experiencing understeer while under power. The novice driver then instinctively lifts off the gas, the nose tucks and then the rear end comes around due to the effect that I described above. The rear weight bias just accentuates the situation. That's why they developed a bit of a rep for being viscious in the corners. It's fun if you're ready for it. If you're not then you're in for an interesting ride.

More weight on a tire increases its potential grip level. However, increasing total vehicle weight still lowers ultimate cornering speeds. This is due to the fact that while you have increased the grip of each tire, you have now also increased the work that it must do to a greater extent.

Hope that helps.
Scott
90SM

 

I've had the Mini Maddness sway bar installed for about a year now and have always had it on the middle setting. For spirited driving (75%-85% maximum) the car will feel very neutral. You have to really push it to get into the 4 wheel drift mode. It takes a combination of enough speed and SLIGHT throttle lift to get the rear to begin to come around. The amount of drift is easily controled by small throttle adjustments. Randy Webb gave me a ride in my car last weekend and outlined these steps. Before that I had only managed to &quot;Get the drift&quot; so to speak 3 or 4 times but now I am starting to get it. Practice - Practice - Practice. But oh so fun.

 

Im sure some of you may have this book Skip Barbers &quot;Going Faster&quot; i read not only to learn how to drive our off road car but more importantly how to go faster on the road and the techniques in this book really work...Ihave notice an improved time on this back road i take ( only at night this way i can see on coming traffic ). Good stuff but like everybody seems to agree only practice will really make a diffrence... and concentrating helps it has happend to me twice on this road were i thought something was wrong with the car becuase it seemed so slow. later i realized nothing was wrong it was just my mind working at the speed of the car very fun place.

 

If you look here you can see the wrong way to handle this.

http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrow...elected=862350

I was changing lines on wet concrete and lifted when I found myself sliding straight at the pit wall. By the time i woke up and got back into the throttle I was rotating (as they say in the bar afterwords). Got it somewhat under control but slid backwords into tires with no damage.

I have Hsport springs and rear sway bar on middle hole. Awesome in dry but needs some fully engaged brain power in rain. I was at a BMW school event and had had a sideways event 1/2 lap earlier (which i handled just fine) so i should have been better prepared. Probably in that mental place where I had driven that corner fast for a day and a half so let my guard down.

Oversteer in a front wheel drive is not to be taken lightly as you have to get into the gas just when every fibre of you being is telling you to do the opposite.