Noob with suspension questions

Going to be placing an order in the next few days for nm engineering springs and 22mm rear sway bar, bump stops, and camber plates.

My issue is i do not know which camber plates to buy, Vorshlag, Ireland, or Eibach.

From my research on the forums seems that everyone regards vorshlag as the best, but they are also over $400

What is everyone on here running? Opinions on the brands? etc
And what is a good camber setup? I see that about -1.8-2 front and about -1.5 rear seems to be common?

I autocross a few times a year, but the real abuse to my car comes from my 80-120 mile commute to work/school so i need parts that will last as long as possible.

one last question Are the Powerflex Rear Upper Shock Mount Bushings worth installing?

Thanks in advance for any help

 

I just installed Eibach/SPC plates & they raised the car approximately 1/3".

I could get 2 degrees negative camber on each side once I pounded the metal rib on the driver's side strut tower flat.

I run 16" tires with Koni FSD shocks & JCW springs and was surprised to find the Eibach/SPC plates make the dash & doors rattle a more on certain roads. I would hate to see how much NVH a spherical bearing plate transmits!

 

I have the IE fixed plates on my car, along with TSW springs. I am running about 2.0 in the front and 1.0 in the rear for my 40 mile commute. The IE plates are made like the factory ones, with some isolation between the strut mount and the body mount. The higher end units (like the vorshlag) are spherical joints, which are more precise but can transmit more NVH.

I did not change the upper shock bushings. It did seem to tighten up the car when I replaced the rear control arms. My best mod is the accessport, though....

I am very happy with my setup. I don't plan on tracking or autocrossing my car, especially with the all season tires that came on the wheels.

Have fun,
Mike

 

The Vorshlags are $439 but will be $500 once you add $35 for the oem style spring perch (required for your TSW springs), shipping, and a ball hex wrench (helpful for adjusting camber plates on a MINI). Vorshlags are expensive, but are very high quality, very durable, have the best feel on the track, do not raise ride (the plate stack is actually a few mm shorter than stock), and work with different springs types.

I had ordered the Vorshlags, but Vorshlag wanted me to first remove one of my Bilstein HD struts to confirm several measurements before they could ship. I decided it was more trouble than I wanted to deal with, so I recently ordered the IE fixed plates instead and saved myself $300. I'm currently at -0.8 (w/free camber mod) and hope to get around -2.0 after the IE plates.

Getting the IE plates was probably the logical choice for me as the car probably can't get much more than -2.0 camber in the front anyway running on stock springs, even with the adjustable Vorshlags.

 

Vorshlags are the only options. There truly is no comparison to the adjustability, quality & workmanship, and durability of them. I ran the gauntlet of trying to decide between brands but you'll always come back to Vorshlag. They are simply fantastic.

 

called wmw yesterday for his suggestion, vorshlag was the answer for quality and durability, also suggested the 25.5mm H-sport competition sway bar instead of the 22mm nm engineering. It has the same strength as the 22mm but only weighs 5 lbs and is significantly cheaper

Thanks for the input

 

For someone not planning on tracking their car or autocrossing extensively, I'd skip the Vorshlags and get the IE fixed camber plates. Simple, durable, and no NVH. And a good price.

Skip the rear shock bushings too.

- Andrew

 

Ive heard a few people that have seen the ie plates completely fall apart, really dont want to have to worry about that.

And my autocrossing is only limited by my work schedule, id go to every local event (which is almost every weekend) if i could.

 

The IE fixed plates are great, the adjustable ones not so much.

This post references the major problem I have with Vorshlags with regular struts. But great plates for coilovers.

http://www.*********************/for...#axzz1xbyDkpSE

- Andrew

 

20K on IE fixed. No problems so far.

DOC

 

Talk about just the thread I was about to start!

I was wondering whyh the R56 seems to have +camber at full lock on the outside wheel. I've never seen a car designed like this.

Either way, who sells the IE fixed plates, and how much -camber can I expect? I don't so much that I'm wearing down my new tires prematurly. There won't be any autoX going on with me. Our roads are an autoX event in themselves! I can feel the car wanting to slip as I enter a tight turn at speed though, so a bit more -camber would help.

 

Waymotorworks sells the ie fixed plates/adjustable plates as well as the vorshlag and eibach adjustable camber plates.

My issue with fixed plates is they are exactly that, fixed as well as dont offer a large increase in negative camber.

 

The fixed plates are stronger than the stock mounts. These are great for road and occasional autoX use. Also, for autoX ditch the stock wheels and get something with a 38 to 42 mm offset. Next best improvement I made for autoX.

-0.3 to -1.6 is not a big change?????? You can only get -2 deg with the stock springs so there little to be gained by adjustable plates. So for occasional autoX and a lot of highway use, these should be ideal. Also anything must more than -2 deg will start to chew the tires up.

 

I would strongly suggest starting with the specs in my sig. I have 22K miles of aggressive street driving on the current tires. I rotate religiously every 3K and run 31 psi rear and 33.5 psi, front, cold and have perfectly even wear across the face of the tread of each tire. I arrived at the alignment and pressure settings by using the same tire pyrometer I use to tune my Formula Ford racing cars.

This is important because if you have anything that is slightly different, you may need to make adjustments, but my setup should get you close to start. Much more negative than -2 degrees will probably really eat up the insides on the street. You should be able to get that much with the fixed IEs on an MCS.

With the range of adjustment available with the rear bar, I can go from mild understeer to mild oversteer, as I wish.

BTW, if you remove the plastic pins and use the fixed IEs, there is a good range of adjustment. Anything with spherical bearings will pound out and eventually rattle within a few thousand miles. These kinds of joints are for racecars where you routinely change them in less than 2K miles.

DOC

 

Can I still keep my NM FSB with the use of fixed or adjustable camber plates? Also, the IE plates say for use with stock springs, does that mean any other lowering spring as well, as long as the perch size is the same?

 

First - are you talking about the Koni FSBs? If you are, you shouldn't use them with lowering springs (although some people do). There are other posts about the use and application of the FSBs. Do a search to see what is said about them. The IE fixed plates should work with the stock spring perch and stock size/diameter spring.

 

You're thinking of the Koni FSD shocks.
I'm talking about my NM Engineering Front Strut Brace. Will I be able to use any of the camber plates with it?

 

I have a strut brace with my fixed plates, no problems. The IE plates actually have longer studs than the factory ones, so there is minimal concern about thread engagement with a strut bar. I agree with the above comment also that the IE plates are designed for use with the stock spring cup, so any aftermarket springs that are designed for the stock-type struts would work fine.

Mike

 

Thanks for that info mbwicz How's the front tire wear been since installing them, and have you noticed any increased vibration or noise in the cabin?

 

I am at about 2.0 negative camber, and have not noticed any tire wear on the inside edge after about 4k miles. I did not notice any additional noise in the cabin, these are built pretty similar to the stock ones. I really think that the fixed camber plates are for people like me, who enjoy the car but don't intend on tracking.

Mike

 

So they ARE fixed at 2 degrees. On WMW's site the description says from 1.7 - 2 degrees. I'm the same way. I just want to enjoy some spirited street driving and know that the car's gonna stick like glue and not push at the extreme.

 

Sorry 'bout that mix-up.
My JCW front brace fit just fine with the IE fixed plates. As was said, these have longer studs which helps.

IMHO - these are a great mod for the person who does occasional tracking but still wants a comfortable car as a DD. They provide a reasonable improvement in the "bite" of the front tires without additional tire wear or NAV.

 

The IE fixed plates themselves have no adjustment. When you actually work on your car you will see how the camber is adjusted. Your actual camber range will depend on ride height, whether you use strut top plates and whether you elongate the slots or leave them stock.

So, the IE fixed plates will NOT just give you -2 degrees. You will have to install and see what your actual range of adjustment proves to be.

DOC

 

The Gen II strut tower has factory slots that allow for about 0.3 deg of additional camber. The IE fixed plates are stated to provide -1.2 deg of camber. Using the factory slots, you will be able to adjust the camber from -1.2 to -1.5 deg. with the fixed plates installed. But, as noted there is no adjustment in these plates. With that said when I installed mine and had it aligned it came out at -1.6 deg.

 

Doc, I take offense that you lump all spherical mounts together and speak about them in absolutes.

We have a customer with Vorshlag plates on his daily with 125k miles on the original spherical bearings that show no wear or knocking. Good bearings with the right specs and used in the right way can last. And that's what makes differentiates a Vorshlag plate from most others.