Hi all,

I currently have a 09 cooperS with with springs and rear swaybar (set on normal) on the car. After tracking it once , I found it have to snap oversteer and generally twitchy especially in the bumpy areas. I realize that its what happens with just changing the springs so now I'm ready to do it right.My question is:

What's he best suspension solution for a track/road hybrid?

I see alot of part s(end link, etc) , are they of much use?

any info would be awesome!

 

What rear sway bar do you have? And what setting are you using on the sway bar?

I have a dual purpose car with 30 track days and lots of street use. Lots of things can be done, but lets start with what you have.

 

rear swaybar is an alta 22 set to medium

 

I would put some camber plates up front. The adjustables camber plates can give you up to -3 camber. Since it is a street car, I would start with something more mild in front camber, perhaps -1.6 or -1.8. That is good enough for the track as well. Toe should be zero.

For the rear, I would set the bar at soft. The oversteer is caused by the rear sway bar setting.

Try that for a few days on the track and we can fine tune the adjustments alittle based on your driving style.

What group do you run in on the track?

 

thanks for the input so far, but I really need to figure out a shock/spring combo along with some of the other stuff( alta control ....etc). I've been reafin the osts and its seems bilstein coil overs are the way to go? but what springs? I am confused!

 

What run group are you on the track? I am guessing novice.

When you get to intermediate 1 or 2 where you can solo, you should be ready for a few more things. You want to learn how the car communicates to you. It is not about how fast the car can go but how well you can drive the car and how comfortable you are with it. That takes some seat time.

And I thought you said this was a dd as well.

 

Listen to Slinger. Go get some seat time. Only when your instructor and you agree your shocks are holding you back go the next step. For now, you want it consistent so you can learn what is the car, what is you. Seat time is worth seconds on the track. Mods are worth tenths.

Soap box aside, IT IS NOT THE SPRINGS! The OEM shocks are horrible. I can't believe anyone puts up with the original MCS shocks. ( I put on Bilstein HD's) Bilstein coilovers ( pss10's) come with springs appropriate to them. Everyone seems to think ultra stiff springs are fast. No so. Tires do not grip very well when they are bouncing in the air. I have never been found of using the guardrails to change direction.

HDs with stock springs, stock ride height, negative camber, and the stiffer rear bar would make a perfectly good "sports car" you drive every day and occasionally track. Plan on running mine this weekend. When you go coilover and lowered you are on a very fast slope to a track car you can occasionally drive on the street. Buy a second car or you will find you are making too many compromises for either use.

 

While I do not think it is necessary in the beginning, I think the shock change is possible. I drove 24 track days on the Mini with the stock suspension. To me, it is not the stiffness of them or the bouncing up in the air, it was that they tend to react too slowly to steering inputs.

The important thing is to understand your track driving style and how your car behaves before spending all the money making mods that you will have to end up changing later because they don't fit what you need to do to the car.

 

Start with softening your rear bar, add some front camber. You'll want to do this anyway if you get coilovers. Thsi should make the car a lot easier to drive and do what you want.

You can make a good street/track hybrid suspension that's comfortable, easy to drive, and handles well but it costs some money and takes some careful thought.

The stock shocks do kinda suck but with the right supporting mods it can be OKAY.

- Andrew

 

Sorry I didn't specify but I'm in group 4. I used to race in the TPS-1 back int he day.I'm writing this post mainly because there's so much info outthere. I drive pretty far distances in the mini right now and I go tracking for fun maybe 5=6 times a year. Right now the car with only springs does really badly in the bumpy roads.It also has "snap" oversteer on uneven surfaces which makes it a bit dangerous. So, I just wanted to know which cil overs you guys would recommend with what springs. Also whether the alta control arms and end link actually help. Thanks.

 

The car does badly on bumpy roads because it's on the bumpstops....the Mini really doesn't have any travel to spare on the stock dampers so lowering the car with springs is not really a good idea in my opinion. I think the car probably would handle better on stock springs, and it definitely would on bump roads. The snap oversteer is from a rear bar that is too big.

Good coilovers for you might be Bilstein PSS10 or KW Variant 2. Great damping and good travel. See if you can get the TSW custom KW Variant 2 from Way Motor Works. They use better spring rates.

EDIT: And the crappy stock shocks are crappy.

- Andrew

 

It is the shocks. The rear steps out because it is bouncing into the air. Really, it IS THE SHOCKS. After you get working shocks, then start tuning.

You do not want any solid bushings on a street car. They are track-only. TSW has rear bars with hard rubber ends. Only adjustable street-safe parts out there. V2 or Pss10? Flip a coin. Both excellent and safe. Maybe, only maybe I would do solid sway bar endlinks, but I doubt it. I put them on my TVR. Too harsh for the trivial amount of quicker response.

My existing: HD's, .9 negative front ( slotted the fender), .4 negative rear, H&R rear 19mm bar on stiff. RE960's on stock 16's. Balanced, streetable, trackable, reliable and livable. Not "race", but sporting.

My dream: Pss10's, TSW rear track bars, IE rubber mount adjustable front plates. 8 inch forged Enki rims with some gooey 215's for tires. I am sticking with "existing" for now as the car is way faster than I am. I am afraid if I had my dream setup, I would use it. With my current setup, 45 MHP corners that were getting a nice balanced squeal stock, I chicken out on at 60. It is quick enough to go from zero to jail in about 20 minutes.

 

If the rear of the car is too stiff, it will bounce when going over bumps... You do this going through a turn and you get a bouncing, sliding, snap-oversteer... Soften your rear bar to the softest setting... I run the Alta 22mm bar and have it set that way for the street... Works well on the street and no snap over-steer in the turns...

 

Control arms and end links help in that it gives you adjustability beyound factory specs.

 

I run the Eibach Multi-pro R1 coils now and would say the road manners are a whole lot better than with the stock suspension.

 

Slinger, have you posted your impressions on the multi-pro r1s anywhere on nam yet?

 

No, not yet. I just don't have enough miles on them right now. I am still in the process of understanding them more fully especially on the track.

I will post some information on them soon, perhaps in a month or so.

 

Keyser, It's the shocks.

 

Its also the run craps.

 

Lack of grip, harshness, and noise are the tires. Stiffness and bouncing are the shocks. I did the shocks first so I was able to compare the changes.

 

OP mentioned snap oversteer and losing grip on bumps. Are you saying with 100% certainty that this definately has nothing to do with the tires?

 

Snap oversteer to me sounds like a too big rear sway, especially on crappy runflats. Shocks can add to it if it's a bumpy surface.

Diving into a corner without much front camber, you find understeer, then you lift off to get the car to rotate, then bam....snap oversteer thanks to a 22mm rear bar. If it's anything other than an ultrasmooth surface, the stock shocks with their too much rebound will only make this happen easier.

- Andrew

 

Agreed. It is a system of things that contribute to the handling characteristics of the car.

I actually find the OEM shocks and springs to be OK for the track. The stock setup was just slow responding to corrections at times but no one else seem to mention that as an issue. It still allowed you to do TTO and TBO under good control. Some driver induced "snap" oversteer is one of the ways to drive FWD cars on the track. Just a different technique than a RWD.

 

thanks for all the info. At this point I have to get a shock/spring setup (my HR spring only setup is crap). Seems like everyone is thinking bilstein pss10?how do these behave on the street? Is this the best setup for street/track combo?

 

my other question is also:

How much better are these aftermarket suspension than the JCW suspension? I'm talking just in terms of handeling and not how low the car can go. thanks!