>>Isn't it only the lastest couple of releases that experience this problem? This car has been on the market for over a year, right? Without the problem?
>>

Couldn't agree more Jeff. Everyone's car was "stumbleless" until this software release. So go back to the old software!

>>I can certainly understand, though, how they'd prefer to blame the weather rather than software developers! Kind of an embarassing admission.
>>

Agreed. As I said before I don't buy this weather/gas cr*p. These cars were around last year and this stumble didn't exist.

Paul

 

I strongly agree with Paulmon, this is a software issue that has nothing to do with the weather or gas content. I am appalled that MINI is trying to feed us this line. We have all had the stumble start imediately after the software upgrade with no regard to how warm or cool the ambient temp is. It really scares me that MINI does not seem to be taking responsibility for this issue. Will they actually solve the problem if they won't even admit the source?

 

I actually had a stumble PRIOR to my 33.2 upgrade... but it was nothing like it is now, and I think I'd gladly take the old stumble over the new one, if I had to choose. In addition, my old stumble came with the car, which was delivered in mid January--during one of the worst winters we've had in a long time, so I don't completely understand the temperature issue they're pushing. If they want to feed us that line because they're embarassed to admit they had some real nitwits working on the software design, well, that's ridiculous and they shouldn't. But at this point, as long as they fix the REAL problem (stupid engineers or gas mixtures), I don't think I care anymore. I just want my MCS to perform as I know it can.

Ho hum... someone, please fix our cars. :evil:

 

friedduck queries.

>>Isn't it only the lastest couple of releases that experience this problem? This car has been on the market for over a year, right? Without the problem?

I don't know about that. My Cooper is a 2002 Canadian Launch edition brought in to the US in May 2002. I bought it in January 2003. Who knows, maybe somewhere in there they loaded later software but I doubt it: I didn't buy it from a BMW dealer. I have had the "stumble" since I first got the car. Turning off ASC helps, but it never goes away completely.

 

Just to play out this "bad fuel" concept. Has anyone tried varius brnads or addatives to any affect? I have always lived by Amoco (BP) premium. I would be willing to try something else if it had less alchohol? Anyone have any usefull numbers by brand for US pump gas? I may try filling up at Road Atlanta this weekend with the Exxon race blend just to see if it makes a difference.

Thanks
Wes

 

I am having the same dreaded stumble as everyone else here but I had no problems with my dealer admitting there was a known problem. I asked them if I could put the old software back on and they said they couldn't because they had already upgraded their equipment with the latest version. My service advisor did recommend not trying to have them reload the same version because they have seen computers lock up and then they need to be sent back. Timely process. She just recommended to wait and periodically check back to see when the new version would be available. Unfortunately we need to sit tight and wait to prevent further problems. For those of you that have the cold start issue just wait until the newer software is available. The cold start problem is much more mangageable then the stumble. I also agree that the stumble has always been there but just at higher rpm's. I always thought I was driving bad but I think it just appeared later.

Jason

_________________
2003 MCS-DSMW/LAPIS/ALL PACKS/RAIN WIPERS/HK/ADR M-CLASSIC/2154017YOKOPARADA/H-SPORT SPRINGS

 

This just gets more and more confusing...

I've heard (from my service guys) that "bad gas" is what causes the slow cranking. I'm starting to find that THIS problem is almost as annoying as the stumble. My car has died after initial starting 4 out of the last 5 times I've started it. It turns over, sputters out, and then when I crank again it fires up normally. This, I'm assuming, is the "cold start" problem...and it's actually different (though perhaps related) to the stumble. It definitely came on with 33.2 and has nothing to do with the actual outside temperature.

I think that this problem is more complex than can be explained (or even discussed) by most of the MINIUSA telephone reps. Like it or not, this is a real engineering problem that the BMW engineers apparently don't even have a handle on yet...expecting to get good or consistent info from a telephone rep. is hoping for a bit much.

And btw, I DO think that gas composition/quality can be a factor here. The MINI adjusts its timing according to qas quality (see some of the older threads on high vs. low octane gas for more details). It seems entirely possible that this component of the software programming is screwy and that the car is not reacting properly to changes in gas. Why this would show up at the 2000rpm stumble point is beyond me (and my meager technical know-how)...but it seems feasible.

 

You know what's conspicuous by it's absence in this long, long debate? Input from Randy. I've read all 5 thousand posts in this thread and yet not one from 'Da Man'. I know he's a busy guy and all that, but is his car having the same problem as the rest of us? If so, what is he working on, if anything? And if not (having the stumble I mean), then why is his car different? Not having a dig at Randy by any means, but I am curious why he hasn't added anything.

What is the most aggravating thing about this problem is that you can't just stand on the gas and scream away from a red light. Try it and you look like an idiot as your car "stumbles" across the intersection. We all know what the car can do once it's rolling (sweet!), but getting it rolling is embarassing at best.

I just left the cinema after watching The Italian Job for the 2nd time (the 1st being a month ago at the special drive-in showing in Hollywood for just us Mini owners). I couldn't wait to get on the sweeping 'S' freeway onramp and let it do it's thing, but we got left behind moving away from the light, and it really does take the fun out of things when you're already 50 yards behind the pack.

My first post on this subject, but as I say, I've read all of the rest. I'll go back to just checking in every day and read while awaiting the "They've Fixed It!!" post.

Ken

 

>>You know what's conspicuous by it's absence in this long, long debate? Input from Randy. I've read all 5 thousand posts in this thread and yet not one from 'Da Man'. I know he's a busy guy and all that, but is his car having the same problem as the rest of us? If so, what is he working on, if anything? And if not (having the stumble I mean), then why is his car different? Not having a dig at Randy by any means, but I am curious why he hasn't added anything.

I've both driven Randy's car and been in it with Randy driving. He does not have the stumble. Off the line, it's as smooth as can be. Ours will be too, it's just going to be awhile. I'm waiting for the 30 days to run out on my promise of a response from MINI. That is due around July 7th. After that maybe we should organize a mass email and telephone bombardment on MINI HQ in New Jersey. Any other ideas anyone?

 

OK Mckinney, since you're providing the data that Randy hasn't, WHY do you think that Randy's car is smooth and ours are not? Maybe you can get Randy to post and tell us himself.

 

>>OK Mckinney, since you're providing the data that Randy hasn't, WHY do you think that Randy's car is smooth and ours are not? Maybe you can get Randy to post and tell us himself.
>>

His is an earlier build car and he never let the dealer touch it except to replace 3 windshields. He's now got another crack that appeared while driving down here to Dallas for the pulley install. So he's running 33.1. He does have long crank times like the rest of us though.

While at the pulley install he did several demos with his car which is a screaming beast off the line. When you look at my upgrades in the sig line, I'm missing some things Randy has on his namely Mania Header (which he doesn't like), water cooled intercooler with separate radiator, Nology wires, and the big bore throttle body. Other than that our cars are pretty close except that his is smooth and mine is all jerky off the line.

 

It sounds/seems like he has several key differences... namely the pulley modification and the throttle body. It seems like the latter may be a key element. The pulley -- from what I've heard -- simply causes the supercharger to kick in earlier which has the same effect on the stumble/low end performance as high reving and dumping the clutch.

But what's the "ECU remap" about in your car??? (now that I read your signature) Also, does Randy have any mods to his ECU? I thought someplace I'd read that he had.

 

>>It sounds/seems like he has several key differences... namely the pulley modification and the throttle body. It seems like the latter may be a key element. The pulley -- from what I've heard -- simply causes the supercharger to kick in earlier which has the same effect on the stumble/low end performance as high reving and dumping the clutch.
>>
>>But what's the "ECU remap" about in your car??? (now that I read your signature) Also, does Randy have any mods to his ECU? I thought someplace I'd read that he had.

We both have the 15% reduction Alta pulley which gives you more boost by spinning the supercharger faster. And we both have the ECU remap from Evotech in Germany that does a bunch of neat stuff. Mainly it changes the air/fuel ratios to match the increased boost, moves the top speed limit out of range of the car (200mph), Increases red line to 7200 rpm and I think there are some timing tweaks. Anyway, to get the ecu remapped, Randy downloads your software, in my case 33.2, and emails it to Germany, they tweak it and email it back and Randy uploads it to the car. Therefore I have a tweaked 33.2 version and Randy has a tweaked 33.1 version. (When MINI fixes my ECU software I am going to have to go through all this again which is why I'm a little pissed off that MINI didn't fix it before Randy's visit).

I don't think the throttle body is anything to do with the stumble because it's the same unit with the same drive by wire stuff, it'sjust bored out with a bigger butterfly.

Graham

 

FWIW, I have no stumble, and never have. Sometimes takes a moment to crank when cold, but nothing extraordinary.

Mine's a 09/03 build bough 10/03, if that helps.

Hope you're all able to get the probs. worked out--I can understand the frustration.

Jeff

 

This seems to be a lot of rehashing of old news. The stumble is caused by the upgrade to the latest MINI software. That is known and accepted even by MINI. People with the old software do not have the stumble. If you have the new version, you have the stumble. Modifications to engine hardware or performance enhancing software make no difference. I did not have this stumble until immediately after the software update (on the drive home from the dealer). I have added a pulley and performance enhancing software and neither on had any effect (nor should it).
The question at this point is not so much what is causing it, as I believe we know that, but what and when is MINI going to either come out with new software that will truely fix it, or re-release the older software to eliminate it.

 

<<<The stumble is caused by the upgrade to the latest MINI software. That is known and accepted even by MINI. People with the old software do not have the stumble.>>>

Nope. *errrrrrrrr*. Huh uh.

I had the stumble with 33.1, just wasn't quite as bad. The stumble (in addition to cold start) was the REASON I was upgraded to 33.2--it was supposed to fix it. So if MINI is telling you that 33.1 was flawless and 33.2 is the only one they botched they're lyin'.

And I'm all over the phone/email attack. I was once part of a Sierra Club phone-in that closed the phone lines of jack @$$ Rick Santorum's offices--so I have experience with phone violence

_________________


All I want is food and creative love (and my 03 IB/W MCS, Ollie)

 

I have a May2003 MCS. Just to be clear on the "Stumble" everyone is discussing....

My mini does not stumble as in sputter or shudder. It just behaves like I've left the clutch out too fast or am towing a bus behind me and dont have enough power. "Slipping the clutch" and adding more gas seems to help, but doesnt seem very healthy.

Am I describing the same problem you folks have? markbytes@aol.com

 

>>I have a May2003 MCS. Just to be clear on the "Stumble" everyone is discussing....
>>
>>My mini does not stumble as in sputter or shudder. It just behaves like I've left the clutch out too fast or am towing a bus behind me and dont have enough power. "Slipping the clutch" and adding more gas seems to help, but doesnt seem very healthy.
>>
>>Am I describing the same problem you folks have? markbytes@aol.com

You have described it perfectly. Sometimes the car behaves as if a novice driver is behind the wheel, you know that bucking and lurching before taking off. That's what happened to my wife the other night. I don't believe she has driven the car since the 33.2 upgrade. Her reaction "what the hell is wrong with this car!" :???: :???: I guess I've somewhat gotten used to it and manipulate the clutch subconciously. Hey MINI I think I need a new clutch! But fix this first!

 

I wonder if anyone else would be interested in trying this potential workaround to verify my (perceived) results.

My '03 MCS has the stumbling problem described. It reminded me of a problem that used to occur in the mid-eighties 325 series with the 'e' (eta) engine.

BMW never really fixed the stumbling/drivability problem with this engine - it was a strange design, IMO, made to be low revving. I believe the redline was 4500 RPM... anyway, topic for a different thread.

AT that time, BMW recommended that owners use a Chevron product called Techron. It kept the pistons from carboning and the result was that the car ran much smoother.

I remembered this the other day and decided to try it. I ran the car near empty, put a bottle of Techron in it, and then filled it with 94 octane.

The car runs smoother with no appreciable stumble, the difference seems remarkable. I believe I experienced near immediate results, and will continue to use it until the next s/w upgrade. It's not a fix, rather a potential workaround.

Techron is a little pricey, and I admit it sounds like a long shot, but it would be great if someone would give it a whirl for a couple of tanks to see if its repeatable, or if it's just wishful thinking.

Anyway, good luck, if you give it a try, please post your results. In the meantime, let's hope we get a fix soon.

Raven

 

Very interesting. I did a search on Chevron's Techron, and it seems the Big Three automakers actually truck in Chevron gas to use for EPA emmissions testing, since it provides better long-term results with the Techron additive.

Chevron's Homepage

I wonder if there is enough Techron in Chevron's gas alone. I have a station near me, and I'm close to needing to fill-up. I'll surely try it.

Thanks for the tip, Ravenwhyte. I'll let you know.

See ya,
JS

 

Just glancing at some of these responses, I have a Dec 03 production MCS and no signs whatsoever of a stumble. I just recently had the Pulley/ECU upgrades in Dallas and still no stumble, just smooth easy starts. I have never had this problem and have never had my ECU upgraded by MINI. It seems there must be some ECU programming out there that works without problems but am at a loss why your dealer is having such a hard time providing this to you. Good Luck.
Brandan

 

Good luck to you, jstines, I really hope you see a difference. BTW, I used the Techron additive and Shell 94 octane gas. I am not sure if Chevron gas has the same amount of Techron in it as the additive - I believe the bottle says it treats 16 gallons of gas.

Raven

 

Here's some new info from a mmber on MINI2...

Below is a link to a MINI2 discussion on new software. It looks like version 34 is out but does not address the stumble.

But, check the link. Second page, 2nd and 3rd from the bottom posts. A member had his ecu sent to BMW to have an older version backdated (apparently they can do that) and they found that not all of the 33.2 update loaded properly. As a result, they "manually" loaded the pieces that did not loan properly and the result so far has been positive.

I wonder if the software is good but has downloading errors? Any thoughts?

You might have to cut and paste since it is long.

http://mini2.com/forum/showthread.ph...p;pagenumber=2
_________________

 

Sure, what the heck, I'll try the Techron. It's not that expensive...and if it works, it's definitely worth it!

I remember back in the late 80s that Techron was sort of a magic elixr for motors...BMWs in particular. BMW actually endorsed it (I believe) just like they now endorse Castrol Synthetic oil. I used to use it regularly. As I recall, you didn't need to use it all of the time. Just a couple of times a year. And yes, you get A LOT more of the additive function when you use the bottle of Techron. There's really just a trace amount of it in the Chevron gas. Of course, over time if you use only Chevron, you may be getting the same effect as dumping a whole bottle in a couple of times a year.

Snakeoil?

 

>>Snakeoil?

I don't know, jsun. I was really reluctant to suggest it for that reason, but damn, the stuff seems to make a difference. I really hope some of you get positive results.

I used two other types of additive - a habit I got into with my Passat, a once a month type of thing. Neither made any difference in the stumble. I was in the local auto store looking for some detailing products and went to the additive isle and saw the Techron for the first time in 15+ years, then I remembered the whole BMW - eta engine ordeal.

Anyway, good luck.

Raven