Hey the problem as beensolved as I was a true doubter but teh newset version of software have gone away I think you freakingout,, adn as far as the neon etc.. i don't think there as saef a bet as the mini. Do you really htink dodge gives care as much as mini does.... if you look at teh bad stuff long enough you just freak yourself. THings shoudl eb fixed up now and the car is deffintly worth it..

 

>>Hey the problem as beensolved as I was a true doubter but teh newset version of software have gone away I think you freakingout,, adn as far as the neon etc.. i don't think there as saef a bet as the mini. Do you really htink dodge gives care as much as mini does.... if you look at teh bad stuff long enough you just freak yourself. THings shoudl eb fixed up now and the car is deffintly worth it..

Well good! Now what was that you said? Reading between the typos, the problem is fixed?????? What version and does it work on an "S"?

Graham

 

>>I'm seriously considering backing out of my deal !!! I would rather loose the deposit, than have to keep reading about this. I'm sick of it. I can't realy have faith in this company right now. Maybe I will look at them again few years from now, but right now they just seem to have there head up there ars !!
>>
>>
>>I was really hoping that in the month since I ordered my car some progress would be made. This is getting stupid.
>>I am really starting to think the SVT Focus or Neon SRT-4 will be a much safer bet. Less expensive, faster, more realible, why did I order one of these ?? It's getting more and more difficult to remember. Loosing the $1000 deposit is starting look better and better.


gmack,

You are doing the right thing I assure you. The Mini looks great and some do go great - the ones with software version 32 (so I am led to believe) However there are an overwhelming number that do have the hiccup and yoyo syndromes. That's why this thread is hotter than any other - see the viewing #s.
Mini USA have not stepped up to the plate - however some of us are twisting their arms hard enough that they are trying to appear to be doing something.

I was told today by Mini Management in NJ that the ECU from mckinneymini did not go to Germany - they have a very hard time with anything that resembles the truth - just as did the dealer that sold me this car - knowing it had these problems. They also told me that this surposed "fix" is only to address the stumble/hiccup and not the yoyo. Last week they offered me the fix (not available to anyone else) that addressed both issues - today they say it is only for the stumble. They also told me "No "guinea pig" stuff. This software has been tested and proven to
completely effective." Well if thats true they are making a real meal of re-loading the mckinneymini ECU. Perhaps they didn't have another ECU to write to so now they are testing it on the mckinneymini.

By the way - why on earth should you lose $1000 deposit on a product that is defective. Mini USA admit that they have software problems that produce hiccups and yoyos - at least after you give them your cash they do - and as you can see by this thread they are still - after more than a year of the cars is release - they still can not produce a product that performs to design specifications.

Mini/BMW do not deserve you or any of us as customers.

_________________
'03 S DS

 

Wow, wow!! Easy there! My MCS ran great untill I got the software upgrade. So it's only 2 months that i have the problem and the other 13K miles I was happy as pig in $**t! I asked them to update the software because I read somewhere that it gives a little boost to the engine, and it actually kinda did. I would go back to the older version of software, but the dealer didn't have it anymore.

I am positive that this issue will be resolved shortly, and besides, since when poor software prevented you from getting great hardware? (Macs aside, they don't have great hardware.)

Motor on!

 

>>Hey the problem as beensolved as I was a true doubter but teh newset version of software have gone away I think you freakingout,, adn as far as the neon etc.. i don't think there as saef a bet as the mini. Do you really htink dodge gives care as much as mini does....

If you have any doubt, ask me! I bought a 2k2 Neon S July 2002 and have some horrifying stories to tell you about Dodge, dealerships, service managers, and the chrysler engines/software problems. Do a quick search on my user name and the keyword Neon, and you'll quickly get an idea of what I think of that car and Dodge corp.

* edit * I almost didn't buy the MINI because it uses a Chrysler designed engine.

 

>>Mini USA have not stepped up to the plate - however some of us are twisting their arms hard enough that they are trying to appear to be doing something.
>>
>>I was told today by Mini Management in NJ that the ECU from mckinneymini did not go to Germany - they have a very hard time with anything that resembles the truth - just as did the dealer that sold me this car - knowing it had these problems. They also told me that this surposed "fix" is only to address the stumble/hiccup and not the yoyo. Last week they offered me the fix (not available to anyone else) that addressed both issues - today they say it is only for the stumble. They also told me "No "guinea pig" stuff. This software has been tested and proven to
>>completely effective." Well if thats true they are making a real meal of re-loading the mckinneymini ECU. Perhaps they didn't have another ECU to write to so now they are testing it on the mckinneymini.
>>

OK now it's my turn to say "Wow"! Actually I don't really care if they sent my ECU to Germany or not, but that's what the dealership said. For all I know it could be in the hands of some mad scientist trying to load it with a flux capacitor! MINI, I just want my car to accelerate smoothly up to 88 MPH whereupon I will engage the 4th of my 6 gears and go on from there!

NOW WHERE IN THE DICKENS IS MY ECU?

Graham

PS I'm flabbergasted!
>>By the way - why on earth should you lose $1000 deposit on a product that is defective. Mini USA admit that they have software problems that produce hiccups and yoyos - at least after you give them your cash they do - and as you can see by this thread they are still - after more than a year of the cars is release - they still can not produce a product that performs to design specifications.
>>
>>Mini/BMW do not deserve you or any of us as customers.
>>
>>_________________
>>'03 S DS

 

Your ECU is to the right of the airbox

 

It would certainly be beneficial to everyone if MINIDivision would make a public statement letting us all know in absolute terms what is going on, timeline to fix, etc. I have suggested this to them, before.

By not making any kind of statement about this issue, they are alienating their existing customers, and they are beginning to lose potential customers. We are left to guess what is going on, misinformation is rampant, and that only ads to the frustration level.

MINIDivision, talk to the engineers, take what you know and go have a chat with your lawyers, and post an informative message. Otherwise, the perception of customer service is going down the toilet and you will see more and more negative posts regarding the MINI.

See ya,
JS

 

>>Your ECU is to the right of the airbox :smile:

 

>>>>Your ECU is to the right of the airbox :smile:
>>
That's what I'm gonna do! Jees, I was wondering what all those wires and stuff was about!

 

A official statement would make me feel better. It's the denial and shaddiness that concerns me. And the fact that someday they will replace the motor and the one I bought will suddenly become the "Bad" one that everyone doesn't want and remembers as the bad mini's with the "problem". That's true of new car I guess though. I thought since BMW was behind this thing that I could expect more than I do from Dodge.

 

Gmack, interesting perspective about how our MCS's could be viewed in the future, but I wouldn't 100% count on this. Rather, I think that 10 years down the road in the "how to buy a used new MINI" advice pages, buyers will be warned to take careful account of any and all modifications done to these cars (since so many are modified) and to check to see if any given specimen has the "sometimes noted first gear stumble." Point is, these cars will always be viewed as somewhat esoteric and evaluated on a case-by-case basis. Within that, it's important to remember that most DO NOT have the stumble...or what stumble they do have is not perceptible to all (most) drivers.

BTW, I think that last point is very important given all moaning and ranting these last couple of pages. So again (for newbies who stumble across this thread and start to freak out) -- NOT ALL MINIS HAVE THE STUMBLE, and even among those that do, what exactly constitutes the "stumble" is a matter of debate. I dare say that while I very much think my car does it, not everyone who would drive my car would be aware of it.

Oh yeah, and it's not necessary to love your car's manufacturer if you love the car. I personally have no problem ultimately deciding that BMW and MINIUSA are scumbags (not that I've necessarily decided that yet) that still managed to make a very nice car.

 

jsun hit it right when he talked about love for the car, not necessarily the manufacturer. Can't you tell I love my car from my sig line? The problem I have with my car is gnat's **** compared to problems I would have with other cars in it's class (if there are any!). No, what bothers me is that this car is so close to perfect and that BMW can't seem to fix it! Maybe a few more days and my AWOL ECU will be back in town and on my car! I'll let you know!

Graham

 

My fiance took the MINI in to the dealer today for a recall issue and we pointed out the stumble, bad paint in spots and bad lamination on driver side rear window. The service head said if we only notice the stumble now and again, we do not want to upgrade. She said the next version of software can make the car feel like it shuts off when shiftng between second and third. She said MINI is producing upgrades monthly and will let us know when they get one in that fixes the stumble (the only mechanical problem we have) without making anything else worse.

 

Wow, PDX, that's truely horrific news! Thanks for ruining our day.

To continue with the discussion of "Not everyone has the Stumble" mentioned a few posts ago: actually, everyone that is driving an MCS with the most current ECU flash DOES have the stumble, no? The only people I know who don't have the stumble are people who have earlier MCS's and either 1) Specifically told their dealers not to touch their software or 2) Have never made a service visit.

This is making me more frustrated every day that I read this and every time my car stumbles.

The way I see it we have two choices:
1) Sit back, shut up, and wait for this thing to get fixed on its own.
2) Riot in Jersey.

Just a thought.

 

>>Good luck to you, jstines, I really hope you see a difference. BTW, I used the Techron additive and Shell 94 octane gas. >>Raven


Hmmm..Shell is only 92 octane in NJ.

 

>>The way I see it we have two choices:
>>1) Sit back, shut up, and wait for this thing to get fixed on its own.
>>2) Riot in Jersey.
>>
>>Just a thought.
>>

Well I do hold the trump card here! Phone and email contact info! You can't have it yet because I promised MINI I would get to the end of this problem and let you know what the answer is and how my car is fixed. We're not there yet.

Graham

 

PDX, thanks for your post...but this once again raises a serious problem with this discussion. That is, what is the "next version" that your service person refers to? Since she didn't give you a version number, we actually have no way of knowing whether she's refering to some not-widely-yet-released version from BMW or actually one of the versions (33.3, 33.2, 34) already discussed in this thread. I would tend to agree that the 32 - 33.3 upgrades tended to simply move the stumble up the RPM range. It's very disappointing if this is what's continuing to happen...but it's not clear that it is. Remember that some dealers are not even aware of sofware versions that are 2 or more revs behind what have been discussed here.

I know that this is not your fault, as you're only being helpful by reporting what you were told...but this simply reinforces the notion that incomplete info is often worse than no info at all. So I guess in a way I've come around to actually agree with MINIUSA (imagine that ) in their desire to tell us nothing until they have something definitive to say.

 

Just doing a bit o cross pollenation. After much back and forth we have come up with the following standardized definitions and terms for these "problem" that seems to affecting so many of us. Hope this helps here as well. Now, your mileage may vary, so please feel free to fine tune this as you like.

1) 1st gear Lurch (also known as Stumble or Hiccup)
Definition: When accelerating from a dead stop in 1st gear, while bringing the rev's up, and starting to release the clutch. With about 1 inch travel left in the pedal, the car has a sudden, quick loss of power. Sometimes barely noticable, other times enough to shake my head. Happens during 80% of dead stop accelerations. Almost always happens on the first cold start of the day. *Introduced with software version: ??
*Affects: MCS w/DSC; MCS w/o DSC; MC w/ CVT; MC w/ 5spd (Correct me if I'm wrong on these)

2) 1st gear Bog
Definition: The car loses ability to accelerate normally in first gear. With accelerator pedal engaged, car crawls away for two to three seconds, then suddenly the car shoots forward and quickly comes up to speed. Happens very seldom, but could be potentially life-threatening under certain circumstances. DSC lite sometimes comes on, sometimes not. Mostly happens while pulling out and turning a corner (is this true for everyone?).
*Introduced in software version ??
*Affects: MCS w/DSC; MCS w/oDSC; MC w/CVT; MC w/5spd

3) Yo-yo (also known as surging)
Definition: Under moderate to heavy acceleration, most noticeable in 2nd and 3rd gears, the acceleration is not constant, but instead feels like someone is pressing and releasing the accelerator pedal, so that if one plotted acceleration on a graph, it would produce a sine wave. After about three cycles of this yo-yo, and/or the engine passes beyond 3500RPM the car accelerates normally. This comes and goes and is not predictable. Occurs about 75% of the time.
*Introduced in software version: Always present from launch vehicles up to and including software version 34.0
*Affects: MCS w/DSC; MCS w/oDSC; MC w/CVT; MC w/5spd

 

>>Just doing a bit o cross pollenation. After much back and forth we have come up with the following standardized definitions and terms for these "problem" that seems to affecting so many of us. Hope this helps here as well. Now, your mileage may vary, so please feel free to fine tune this as you like.>>

I would agree with all of what you wrote cpeters. I'd like to add a number 4 if I could, but to be honest I'm not entirely sure if it is related and might be a completely different issue (I'm sure somebody on here will know). At redline (regardless of gear) the engine cuts out until the rpms come back down below red. I mean if I wanna blow my engine, let me do it...it's my friggin car!

Not related to this thread? Well it could be. Bear with me...Let's say the ecu is trained to do the "engine cut out" thing at redline, and for some strange reason it is erroneously detecting "redline" when we are attempting our normal take offs. The ecu then does it's job and cuts the engine out (very, very briefly, causing a stumble) and then allows the engine back on again once it realises it's mistake. Does that make sense to anybody? I haven't been wrong on anything for decades, so I'm with me on this.

Ken

 

On Item 2 - I would add that my few "bogs" have only happened when the car was very hot "fully heat soaked". I think this is relevant as I belliev that this one is the knock sensor detecting and retrding spark from a very hot intake charge. If anyone has had the "bog" on a less than very hot engine - then that probabaly kills my theory.

Good work on the definitions.

Wes

 

>>To continue with the discussion of "Not everyone has the Stumble" mentioned a few posts ago: actually, everyone that is driving an MCS with the most current ECU flash DOES have the stumble, no?
>>

no, i got my car july 3rd, i would assume i have the latest software... no stumble for me.

 

Well, as Rasmussen MINIs main guinea pig, I can say with certainly that the service head that told PDX_Mini that the "newest" version was causing worse problems was refering to 33.2-3, not a 34+ version. I was the poor victim that got the mung software version there that caused them to reconsider upgrading anyone else.

R

 

But Nomonster, the problem as I've been tracking it, is on cars that have been upgraded...seems to follow the hypothesis that the programs are not totally loading...but that could also track back to the factory not getting the program loaded entirely and subsequently affecting new build cars that have not had their programs updated.

R

 

>>no, i got my car july 3rd, i would assume i have the latest software... no stumble for me.

Awwww, I hate to debate these things without hard data, but I believe we've been through this one before... Nomonstersinme, you probably DO NOT have the most recent version of the software. What's your actual build date (at least to the closest Friday from the OL data?). I'm willing to bet money that you have a late version 32.x...and that's the "no stumble" software. For what it's worth.

BTW, love the definitions!