Hello everyone. I'm asking for your insight and wise council on this one.

I have an '03 Cooper with ~28,600 miles on it. All of these miles have been city driving -- the on-board-computer registers a sad little 21 miles an hour as my average speed.

Over the weekend I noticed a loss of power in the low-end. The car had noticibly less pick-up in first and second gear. So, on Monday I made an appointment to have MINI look at it on Tuesday (today). Only on my way home from work yesterday I noticed I was getting very slow starting from a standstill and at a subsequent stop-light the car just ceased going forward. I put it in gear, let out the clutch, gave her some gas and nothing happened. No engine lights are on. I wait for the intersection to clear and push the car to the side of the road.

Fast forward to this afternoon when the MINI Service Department tells me that I need a new clutch which will probably run me $1550.

Shouldn't a clutch, even in city driving, last longer than 28K miles? I thought the replacement interval was something like 40K...

Next of course, they tell me that the car is no longer covered by the 3 Years - 36K miles Warranty because of the TIME limitation. I bought my MINI in February of '03... I thought it was 3-years or 36K miles, whichever was the longest amount of coverage but they say it's whichever is the SHORTEST amount of coverage.

I learned to drive on my Mom's VW Beetle in the '70s. The same Beetle that my sister before me learned to drive on. We both ground those gears the whole time we were learning manual transmission, and, at 60K miles, when we sold the car, the clutch had never been replaced. I'm irritated on soooo many different levels I don't know where to start.... I have to believe a clutch SHOULD last longer than 28K but definitely, if for some reason it doesn't, the manufacturer should replace it.

So let me know. Have any of you had a clutch replaced (under warranty or not)?

How long should a clutch last?

Do you think there is any way, given that my mileage is significantly UNDER 36K, that I could get MINI to cover the replacement under warranty?

 

Many ppl have had to replace the clutch. Goes with the territory. Some MINIs eat them ... its not like your bought a Camry.

 

It all depends upon your clutch technique. I've seen clutches burned out in 10K miles and clutches that have gone 150K-200K.

When you get the new clutch in, I suggest that you ask one of the mechanics to ride around the block with you and assess your clutch technique. Maybe good, maybe bad, but at least you will know.

YD

 

I would think 150,000 miles isn't out of the question. If you are hard on your clutch then it will be sooner. Your mileage may vary.

 

Mine was changed @ 140k km and it was still very good... I changed it because I was getting a new transmission and it was a good idea to get a new clutch at the same time.

i did a lot of city driving btw...

 

02 s @ 60k ... no problem

95 Miata with 110k .... no problem

how ya drive matters much

very very much

 

Thanks everyone for your input.

If how I drive "caused" the clutch failure wouldn't I have had some kind of inkling over years of driving a standard transmission? I've never had anything other than a manual transmission car. I've had a Honda Civic, Toyota Corrolla, SAAB 900S, and a Honda CRV. All of these cars I drove for more than 60K miles, and several for significantly more mileage than that and I have never had to replace a clutch before.

It just feels like they can say my "driving style" caused the clutch failure and I have no way to counter the argument.

 

if you drive like me order one now and count on your brakes lasting forever. i've decided to start heel toeing more .

 

Kinda a side question about clutch life...

Does double-clutching increase clutch wear?
What about Heel and toeing? (assuming they are both done correctly)

I double-clutch almost every single one of my downshifts, just out of habit. I also heel and toe when driving agressively. Is my clutch life going to suffer?

 

Well, I assume you mean rev-matching, as there's no reason to double clutch in a car with synchros! . Double clutching as I understand it is usually:

1) Clutch in
2) Stick to N
3) Clutch out
4) Rev to desired RPM for shift
5) Clutch in
6) Move stick to desired gear
7) Clutch out

Clutch goes in twice for a shift (Hence the double clutch...). It's really only needed if you're driving a tractor or a stickshift from the 50's that has no synchros.

Rev-Matching is just
1) Clutch in
2) Blip throttle to match revs
3) Shift to desired (Lower) gear
4) Clutch out

Neither really takes long (2-3 seconds for double clutching, maybe faster if you're good, 1-2 seconds for rev-matching), although I always feel awkward trying to double clutch.

Anyway...You could debate it left and right, but the popular belief is that throttle input while the clutch is slipping reduces clutch friction surface life. So long as you rev match with the clutch fully down, you'll probably only be adding a negligible amount of wear to the throwout bearing (More clutch depressions = more times the bearing has to do work).

As for Heel-Toe, that's basically the same thing as rev-matching, though it takes a bit more finesse and practice to do, Same stuff applies, don't do it while slipping the clutch (any position other than on the floor/completely out) and it shouldn't matter much. Like I said though, depending on how often you do it, there's a possibility that your throwout bearing's life could be adversely affected, but unless you rake 1-2-3-4-5-6-5-4-3-2-1 every time you accelerate and decelerate, you shouldn't really notice anything, your friction surface on the clutch should wear out before the bearing will.

I rev-match all of my downshifts too, but I don't row through gears up and down when driving normally (When upshifting unless I'm driving aggressively I usually actually shift from 1-3-5 or 1-2-4-6). I just put the car in neutral and coast to a stop or apply appropriate braking force. Only reason I would downshift while driving is if I was accelerating (duh!), otherwise just put it in neutral and use your brakes, there's no need to use engine braking, just more wear on the clutch, transmission, synchros, etc.

 

Everyone else pretty much answered your question, it depends largely on the driver. If your clutch did in fact fail prematurely, Mini should cover it under the powertrain warranty. There is no way you'll get them to cover it under the maintainence warranty though, 3 years OR 36k miles, whichever comes first. That's the warranty. Do you slip your clutch a lot? Did the dealer tell you what was wrong with the clutch? Or did they just guess based on the symptoms. If it's the friction surface they're not likely to cover it (As any number of things, mainly driving habit can affect the life of a clutch). If it's actually a defective part, call up MINI USA and see if you can get them to do anything for you.

 

30,000 miles on 2ndMiniacs clutch, which she learned to drive a stick with, several (that's SEVERAL) autocrosses, a week of blazing through the Dragon and no problems with the clutch.

 

Well here's how it all ended...

The way it stood the other day was they had to open up the clutch to determine what caused the failure... if it was the friction surface then it was wear and tear and I paid. The service guy just called and said that it WASN'T just the disk and that there were "pieces of the clutch everywhere." Those of you with a better understanding of how, physically, all the parts fit together probably understand what that means better than I do BUT for me it means they are going to cover the replacement of the clutch under the 4-year/50,000 miles powertrain warranty and I'm not out $1500.

Thanks to everyone who responded. Your comments really helped me understand the issues much better than I did in the beginning.

 

How to explode a clutch, based on how my buddy did it in his car 35 years ago:

Drive down the street in a high gear (4th in this case).
Aproaching a corner where you plan to be in 2nd gear after the corner, shift down to 2nd BEFORE you slow the car but don't let the clutch out yet, because you know it will blow up the engine.

Clutch spins up to very high rpm and bursts, throwing pieces of clutch everywhere...

John

 

So what they said probably means, in their opinion you didn't just wear down your clutch and wear it out, ...it failed. For all intents and purposes of this discussion, the friction surface and the disc are the same thing. It had a mechanical failure and came apart. I'm happy for you that you get to keep your $1500. I suggest you invest it in an intrest bearing account for when this happens next time and they 'won't' pay for it. hehe

YD