Is your car stalling upon starting?
6th Gear
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,652
Likes: 6
From: Lansdale, PA
Just an update. This method has had a 100% success rate for me during the past week. Next week, I will alternate between the fire-it-right-up method and this, to make sure it's repeatable.
Originally Posted by andy@ross-tech.com
Recently, before starting the car, I have done the following:
1) Turn key to ON position for 10 seconds but don't try to start the car
2) Turn key to OFF position
3) Turn key to ON position and start the car
Since the problems only seem to manifest themselves in the morning on the first start of the day, it'll take some time to find out if this really works. But, the past 3 starts have been smooth and successful when done in this manner.
1) Turn key to ON position for 10 seconds but don't try to start the car
2) Turn key to OFF position
3) Turn key to ON position and start the car
Since the problems only seem to manifest themselves in the morning on the first start of the day, it'll take some time to find out if this really works. But, the past 3 starts have been smooth and successful when done in this manner.
3rd Gear
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 253
Likes: 0
From: Charlotte, NC
Andy, is that supposed to prime the fuel pump or something? What effect is that having? A computer training method maybe?
On a side note:
I did try my own method the other morning. I gently got in, sweet talked to her, petted the dash, and told her it was going to be alright. I turned the key and whispered sweet nothings into the air vent, and she responded by almost stalling again.
So much for that trick.
On a side note:
I did try my own method the other morning. I gently got in, sweet talked to her, petted the dash, and told her it was going to be alright. I turned the key and whispered sweet nothings into the air vent, and she responded by almost stalling again.
So much for that trick.
6th Gear
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,652
Likes: 6
From: Lansdale, PA
I really don't know why the problem is happening to begin with, but mine pretty consistently failed to start on the first try. On the second try, it fired right up. So, I figured, why bother cranking at all of the first try if it's not going to start anyway. Now, I just turn the key on, turn it off, turn it on, and start it.
I tried the sweet talking too, but mine didn't respond either.
I tried the sweet talking too, but mine didn't respond either.
6th Gear
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,256
Likes: 2
From: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted by stylin99
On a side note:
I did try my own method the other morning. I gently got in, sweet talked to her, petted the dash, and told her it was going to be alright. I turned the key and whispered sweet nothings into the air vent, and she responded by almost stalling again. So much for that trick.
I did try my own method the other morning. I gently got in, sweet talked to her, petted the dash, and told her it was going to be alright. I turned the key and whispered sweet nothings into the air vent, and she responded by almost stalling again. So much for that trick.
Originally Posted by andy@ross-tech.com
I tried the sweet talking too, but mine didn't respond either.
The failure of sweet-talk is a major indicator of the "gender" of your MINIs. Another indication is the general (and loveable) unfathomable nature of this issue. I'll let it go at that, and dust off my asbestos overcoat...
Solution (also based on experience):
Throw some cash at the issue, (and clean the garage/attic/kitchen). Try to look at it like an "opportunity" instead of a "problem".
That was hilarious about whispering in the air vents
.Happy Friday,
Tatt
Neutral
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
05' MCS Stumbling
I have 1800 miles on mine and it just started to stumble in the morning. Same thing. Doesn't die just stumble.
Originally Posted by Tarzan
Both my 05 MCS and my co-workers 05 MCS have the stumble first thing in the morning. Mine has never died, but it stumbles, recovers, and is fine from that point on.
I have an appointment at the dealership to leave it overnight so their tech can experience it in the morning.
I too thought it might be the initial strain of the a/c kicking in (although it doesn't affect the car during restarts throughout the day) so I experimented by shutting the a/c off the night before. Sure enough, the following morning I STILL had the stumble.
Both our cars have the JCW packages, and from what I am told, the JCW ecu upgrades are on a different version number sequence. Doesn't matter--I still get the stumble.
I'll post to let you know what Hendrick MINI suggests after they check over my car...
I have an appointment at the dealership to leave it overnight so their tech can experience it in the morning.
I too thought it might be the initial strain of the a/c kicking in (although it doesn't affect the car during restarts throughout the day) so I experimented by shutting the a/c off the night before. Sure enough, the following morning I STILL had the stumble.
Both our cars have the JCW packages, and from what I am told, the JCW ecu upgrades are on a different version number sequence. Doesn't matter--I still get the stumble.
I'll post to let you know what Hendrick MINI suggests after they check over my car...
6th Gear
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,256
Likes: 2
From: Chicago, IL
I think I'm going to turn off my subscription to this thread, since (don't hit me) my '05 doesn't have the symptom and I don't want to jinx m'self...
But -
Can't you imagine the guys (& gals) with the '02s/'03s (and all that they had to endure with Stumbles & Yo-Yos and etc's) reading this thread and once again believing that there is justice in this world...?
Chicago will have perfect motoring weather this weekend - I'll be giving MCS Rides to visiting family from out of town.
Have a great one!
Tatt
But -
Can't you imagine the guys (& gals) with the '02s/'03s (and all that they had to endure with Stumbles & Yo-Yos and etc's) reading this thread and once again believing that there is justice in this world...?
Chicago will have perfect motoring weather this weekend - I'll be giving MCS Rides to visiting family from out of town
.Have a great one!
Tatt
4th Gear
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 459
Likes: 2
From: Tallahassee, FL
I have had my 05 since August 04. I started noticing this just after getting past 4,500 miles about a month ago. A solution: let the car idle all night long--no morning stumble. 
. Tis amazing BMW hasn't figured it out. But GM had 7 yrs to work out the steering column lock out on C5 Corvettes--still a problem. But hey, GM not BMW!
. Tis amazing BMW hasn't figured it out. But GM had 7 yrs to work out the steering column lock out on C5 Corvettes--still a problem. But hey, GM not BMW!
5th Gear
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 798
Likes: 3
From: Charlotte, NC
JCW ECU update
Originally Posted by Tarzan
I had to reschedule my appointment. I'll post when they get a chance to flash me with this latest update to let everyone know how it goes...
Mine is a JCW equipped car. The service advisor at Hendrick advised me that they just got the patch, but did not have any description of what exactly it changed or fixed. Otherwise, the car behaves flawlessly, and exactly as before--less the rpm dip at initial start-up.
My early production '05 MCS does this too ... but only sporadically. I recently changed where I buy gas and it "seems" to be happening less. Also, a BMW tech I know suggested trying a mid-level octane gas to cure it.
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,284
Likes: 1
From: Middle Earth
After several days without any cold start problems it did it again this morning as I was headed out for some serious motoring. While out motoring I stopped for about 15 - 20 minutes, when re-starting it turned over a few extra times before starting.
Ever since the v39 install my cold start and throttle response have gotten terrible.
I've tried the different gas route, changing stations and grades. So far no help.
Ever since the v39 install my cold start and throttle response have gotten terrible.
I've tried the different gas route, changing stations and grades. So far no help.
6th Gear
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,179
Likes: 0
From: San Francisco Ca.
Update on Brutus too...
I have not experienced the hard morning start for over a year now, maybe 2, don't remember.
A 4 second pause before starting has been the cure for our 02 MCS, be sure to give that method a try.
Good luck all
I have not experienced the hard morning start for over a year now, maybe 2, don't remember.
A 4 second pause before starting has been the cure for our 02 MCS, be sure to give that method a try.
Good luck all
Banned
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 7,756
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by ZOOVIEMINI
I was able to cure the cold start problems by switching to mid-grade gas. Ever since the switch zero problems have occured.
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,284
Likes: 1
From: Middle Earth
Originally Posted by C4
Yeah, but switching to midgrade gas may not be good for the engine in the long haul.
Actually, with all of the modern electronics in place to stop "knock" I am reasonably sure that no damage will be done. A reduction in preformance for sure, but no damage.
I have been alternating between fuel grades, it seems to help, but not completely fix the cold start issue. Before any serious motoring I always fill with premium
6th Gear
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,256
Likes: 2
From: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted by Bilbo-Baggins
But, it is the dealers service department that is making the recomendation so they assume responsibility, right???
Actually, with all of the modern electronics in place to stop "knock" I am reasonably sure that no damage will be done. A reduction in preformance for sure, but no damage.
I have been alternating between fuel grades, it seems to help, but not completely fix the cold start issue. Before any serious motoring I always fill with premium
Actually, with all of the modern electronics in place to stop "knock" I am reasonably sure that no damage will be done. A reduction in preformance for sure, but no damage.
I have been alternating between fuel grades, it seems to help, but not completely fix the cold start issue. Before any serious motoring I always fill with premium
.Get it in writing -
Tatt
Banned
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 7,756
Likes: 0
The dealer bozos can make whatever "recommendations" they want, but if at the end of the day your engine sustains damage from using lower grade gas, they will nail the heck out of you by denying warranty coverage. The first thing they will shove in your face will be the "Factory mandate' of 91+ octane fuel.
In this country anything that is not put down in writting, is just that...hot air!
In this country anything that is not put down in writting, is just that...hot air!
Originally Posted by Bilbo-Baggins
But, it is the dealers service department that is making the recomendation so they assume responsibility, right???
Actually, with all of the modern electronics in place to stop "knock" I am reasonably sure that no damage will be done. A reduction in preformance for sure, but no damage.
I have been alternating between fuel grades, it seems to help, but not completely fix the cold start issue. Before any serious motoring I always fill with premium
Actually, with all of the modern electronics in place to stop "knock" I am reasonably sure that no damage will be done. A reduction in preformance for sure, but no damage.
I have been alternating between fuel grades, it seems to help, but not completely fix the cold start issue. Before any serious motoring I always fill with premium
Coordinator :: Gulf Coast & Panhandle MINIs
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 12,662
Likes: 0
From: In the Tube
Originally Posted by whovous
The weather has turned very hot here of late. My 'stalling when starting' problem seems to have completely gone away.
It was the ECU update that killed my MCS.
I have very similar situation and Sndwave described my problem identically.
'03 MCS with ECU emmisions update a couple of months ago.
Today was the worst for stumble. 75 degrees and humid this morning, A/C on at start... severe stumble when trying pull out from driveway onto road with car coming down the road (usually a safe distance, but with stumble
it was a little uncomfortable) Tell me that isn't safety issue.
Has anyone else received update and had problem fixed like Tarzan?
'03 MCS with ECU emmisions update a couple of months ago.
Today was the worst for stumble. 75 degrees and humid this morning, A/C on at start... severe stumble when trying pull out from driveway onto road with car coming down the road (usually a safe distance, but with stumble
it was a little uncomfortable) Tell me that isn't safety issue.Has anyone else received update and had problem fixed like Tarzan?
Originally Posted by sndwave
I’ve had my MCS almost 3 years now. August 02 build and have never had one problem with it. No yo-yo, no stumble, no anything. I have posted many times over the last 3 years that I have one of the most reliable MINI’s that has ever been built. I even have stone chips in my windshield the size of a nickel and the windshield won’t break. Other than on road trips about 3 times a year, I buy my 93 octane gas at the same station every week. In the history of owning my MCS I have never had a stalling problem. Other than the oil being changed, I’ve never had one thing changed or go wrong with my MINI
A little over a month ago I had my 02 MCS in to the dealer for the emissions recall update. Until then I had the original v32 programmed in to the car. I had never upgraded once. The philosophy, if it’s not broke, don’t fix it.
The dealer installed the newest update at the time, v40 I believe it was and my MCS has had nothing but stalling problems since.
Now it’s very hard to start in the morning, I can’t even pull out of my flat driveway without stalling and it’s getting worse daily. I’ll sit at a stop light and hear the engine sputter, choke and even die now and then. It runs and idles rough. Pickup off the line is terrible. None of this has ever happened – ever to my MCS with v32.
It has nothing to do with the gas a certain time of the year, the outside temperature or wet/cold/hot conditions. It is the ECU program alone and my indestructible MCS has been ruined because of it.
I’m not a happy camper.
A little over a month ago I had my 02 MCS in to the dealer for the emissions recall update. Until then I had the original v32 programmed in to the car. I had never upgraded once. The philosophy, if it’s not broke, don’t fix it.
The dealer installed the newest update at the time, v40 I believe it was and my MCS has had nothing but stalling problems since.
Now it’s very hard to start in the morning, I can’t even pull out of my flat driveway without stalling and it’s getting worse daily. I’ll sit at a stop light and hear the engine sputter, choke and even die now and then. It runs and idles rough. Pickup off the line is terrible. None of this has ever happened – ever to my MCS with v32.
It has nothing to do with the gas a certain time of the year, the outside temperature or wet/cold/hot conditions. It is the ECU program alone and my indestructible MCS has been ruined because of it.
I’m not a happy camper.
Coordinator :: Gulf Coast & Panhandle MINIs
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 12,662
Likes: 0
From: In the Tube
I would also like to point out other than a Milltek cat-back exhaust I’m running stock. No pulley, not injectors, sway bars (like that would do it), No MTH upgrade, NOTHING and never have other than the new v40 ECU program.
I repeat if you missed it the first, second and now third time. The v40 ECU upgrade runied my fantastic never had a problem once never to the shop for any reason problem free 02 MCS.
I want my v32 back.
I repeat if you missed it the first, second and now third time. The v40 ECU upgrade runied my fantastic never had a problem once never to the shop for any reason problem free 02 MCS.
I want my v32 back.
Neutral
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Stalling upon starting
I have 2004 S pre owned, bought it with 4500 miles, have put on 3000 miles
in 4 months using the car at least 4 days a week, and have not had a problem with starting, even if left 4-5 days she starts with 1 turn of the key.
mikem
in 4 months using the car at least 4 days a week, and have not had a problem with starting, even if left 4-5 days she starts with 1 turn of the key.
mikem
I think this problem could be related to the MCSa going into a limp/safe mode on cold starts. It does the same thing when you pull out and it starts stumbling and sounds like it's going to stall, but then the computer intervenes and shuts everything down. It doesn't stall but the engine runs rough and sputters. It's happening with all MCSa in hot, humid areas. If you restart it again afterwards then everything runs fine. MINIUSA has many unhappy customers with this problem right now. At least in the manual you can force it to continue driving, but in the auto it only lets you go 5mph after it happens.
