I have a 2005 stock R53/CooperS, 218K miles, runs like a scalded dog. Original timing chain on the car.

When I first start her up, I am getting a rattle from the area around the timing chain. When the engine is warmed up, there is no noise from that area.

What I've done so far:

• replaced the timing chain tensioner.
• replaced idler pulley, just in case.
• replaced serpentine belt tensioner, to include new bushings on the tensioner shock.
• Verified that the belt is on correctly and not cracked.
• Replaced the harmonic crank dampener (3 years ago)

It acts like the timing chain tensioner isn't working - except I just replaced it.

Any ideas/thoughts before I haul it in to a mechanic?

 

Possible timing chain stretch. ECS has a tool for checking it.
It comes in the timing chain replacement kit or you can buy just the stretch tool


https://www.ecstuning.com/b-schwaben.../023734sch01a/

 

That's what I'm thinking - I replaced those things with the most potential for "noise" but I've expected that it's the timing chain. What's throwing me off is the fact that the noise goes away after the car is at normal driving operating temp. Thanks. @Minifenrir .

 

Could be "death rattle" - failing / failed timing chain guides, not rare in older high mileage cars. But since it only occurs during warm up, and not all the time, less likely. Still might be worth a look under the valve cover.
Almost as if the tensioner (which works a lot like a hydraulic lifter in that it has to pump up with oil pressure to expand and impart force on the tensioner) is taking a while to fill with oil. Or it's a failure right out of the box. Maybe replace it with a different brand (Febi for example).

Other possibilities. Oil pressure issues? Does the idiot light stay on for a few seconds when you first start the car?

What did you replace it with? Factory / OEM? Or ATI/PRW? If it's the former, still a possiblity the new one failed (a design deficiency BMW will never admit).

 

@RedSky455 thanks for the questions and comments.

I've not yet opened the valve cover to inspect, but will. Will share the results.

The replaced tensioner is not an OEM product. I just ordered a replacement from Way Motor Works, thinking that there may be an issue with the off-brand I used.

The harmonic crank is an ATI. I knew better than to go with OEM on that one...

Here's a video where you can hear the sound - the car had been warmed up for maybe 2-4 minutes at this point. Again, it goes away after about 10 minutes or so.

 

I hear the whop-whop-whop Huey helicopter sound from your dual mass clutch (?) but other than that this one doesn't sound like death rattle; too tinny-metallic, like little strings of beads rattling around in a coffee can. The last time I heard something like that it was my belt tensioner damper, but since you replaced that already...guess it could be timing chain / guides. Does it go away with a quick goose of the throttle?

Before pulling the valve cover, maybe put the car on stands or a lift and have a look underneath, see if there's something external that goes away with heat expansion? That's how I found my belt tensioner damper bushings were bad.

Also, grab a stethoscope and narrow down the area that way. Watch the rotating belt and pulleys of course...

 

You might try a quality oil & filter change & see if that changes anything - it sounds a bit 'tappety' to me!
Perhaps you can identify better where the noise is coming from.

 

@MVPeters , thanks for the thought - I use a Mann filter and LiquiMoly, always - not sure how much better quality you can get, but I welcome the input.

 

@RedSky455 I replaced the dampener and the bushings - put in PowerFlex bushings, too. I'm trying all the relatively inexpensive corrections first.

It does NOT go away when I rev it up, quick goose or prolonged rev. It ONLY goes away when the engine warms up.

By my "calibrated ear" I am hearing the noise from the top of the timing chain cover, or to the passenger side of the valve cover.

Time for a stethoscope inspection, me thinks.

 

Update: 9/3/20

Listened to everything I could get to with a stethoscope - no noticeable ticking coming from around the belt end of the engine.

I decided to go ahead and do an oil change. I flushed the engine with some Liqui Moly Pro-Line engine flush - ran it as per the directions after draining about a pint of the dirty oil. I put in a Wix oil filter, Liqui Moly 2249 5W-30 Special Tec LL, and some Liqui Moly Hydraulic Lifter additive, as I'm wondering if I have a clogged lifter port. I put in a new magnetic oil plug, as well.

So check this out - it already sounds better. I won't know until the engine is cold and I start it in the morning whether the oil change did the trick. I have high hopes, though - while the noise was going away once the engine got up to temp, it was not going all the way away.

I'll update this once I get her started - hopefully without ticking/rattling - in the AM.

 

Started this morning with a completely cold engine. I still have the noise I posted, but it's . . . different.

I'm going to run a full tank of gas through the car with the Lifter additive to see if it corrects itself.

 

legweak
How different?
I think you're working on the right lines - a blocked lifter port.
Adding stuff to the gas tank won't affect the lifters, though if you've already done that, it will clean the injectors somewhat.
I think it would be better to do another oil & filter change or two - skip the additives. Maybe use a 0W30 for a day or two - add a quart of ATF if you want to. The thinner oil & ATF will have some effect on the lifters.
This seems to be a fairly common MINI issue & I think the usual cause is cars used for short commutes &/or infrequent oil changes.

 

@MVPeters , thanks for the note. The additive for the lifters was an oil additive - I didn't add anything to the fuel.

The "different" sound is that it sounds like there's less going on creating the noise. I hope that makes sense. There's less noisemaking going on...

I replaced the belt tensioner itself not that long ago (again, replaced the tensioner shock bushings last weekend) but I'm wondering if the main pulley could be bad? When I pulled it last weekend, it appeared in good shape and not loose...

 

Not if it's an ATI. Straight forward enough to re-check the bolt torque though. Should be 85 ft-lbs (115 N-m for you SAE haters)

 

My bad, @RedSky455 I meant the pulley on the belt tensioner. The ATI in in good shape.
--
Interesting that I'm not picking up any loud, obvious noises with the stethoscope. Obviously I'm only touching the probe to static parts. But in not hearing anything (stethoscope) from the engine block, timing chain cover, engine plugs, or the belt tensioner.

To the naked ear, it's loud.

​​​​​Hmmm.

 

Thinking Mike has the right idea - couple short term oil changes, maybe a few hundred miles each and see if that helps. At >200K and uncertain previous owner oil changes could be all kinds of funky gunk in there, in addition to wear in the usual places. Would assume you need a supercharger service (oil change) and the usual cooling system care recommended at 100K, hopefully the second time around assuming it was ever done. Don't want to say you're tempting fate but it might be time for a "while you're in there" list sooner rather than later to be better safe than sorry.

 

@RedSky455 thanks for the input.
I bought this car brand new, so I know the history. I've been doing 80% of the work/maintenance on it personally for the past 10 years. All the maintenance/fluid changes have been done, and oil changes at prescribed intervals done religiously. I put every one of the 218,125 miles on the car myself.

I started this thread because the rattle isn't an obvious rattle, as the "death rattle" can be.

All this input is helpful, thanks.

 

Of course, I missed the high mileage! I'd still do the oil change, as it still could be a clogged oil way, but now I'm thinking of a worn cam lobe.
Winter is coming, but is a 10W/40 worth a shot? At this mileage, is it worth a rebuild? Up to you, but I'd say not.

(Most questions of this general nature involve cars bought yesterday, don't have any records, hasn't moved in 5 years, last oil change was a decade ago & used for a commute where a bike would be healthier).
I only have 158,000 on my 2002.

 

Don't change viscosity of engine oil to something heavier in a MINI....it will always do more harm than good.

 

That's my thought, too.

Considering going to Amsoil SAE 0W-40 FS Synthetic European Motor Oil for the next change. Based on previous input, thinking I'll change it after 250 or 500 miles this time.

Here's what it sounded like this morning, bonnet open, cold start.
Video/audio

 

link not working for me

 

Try this link now. Sorry about that.

 

Hard to tell if that's a double-engine-speed tappet noise or a chain purring.
Chain tensioner?

 

Had a similar problem on a Honda Vtec. And upon advice from my trusty MINI guru, I added a can of BGMOA at the next two oil changes. The noise is all but gone on startup.

 

10-3-20 Update - issue solved. I was certain it was the timing chain, and I was wrong. It was the vibration damper.
I spent yesterday replacing the timing chain, both gears, and the guides. Put it back together, started her up, and still had the noise. I deduced that the timing chain was NOT the issue (NO SH*T, RIGHT) and pulled the vibration damper and threw on another one. Started her up, no noise.

So. The ATI vibration damper failed for some reason that I cannot figure out. There was scarring on the timing chain cover that matched the inside of the vibration damper. Perhaps a rock/pebble got found its way in between the cover and the damper and cause it to occur. Oh, and the timing chain/gears/guides were flawless. Now, they are flawless and new...

Regardless, I have a noise free 15 year-old runs-like-a-scalded-dog R53 again.