All, this may or may not go anywhere but I think its high past time that someone puts BMWs *** to the fire and get some action on this chain issue. So in this spirit, I have contacted www.topclassactions.com, a law firm website that is currently suing BMW for their poorly constructed CVT trannies in the 1st Gen cars. What I sent them is as follows:

Between 2007 and present, the BMW group - MINI has produced a 4 cylinder engine with known timing chain issues. These have suffered failures in as little as 12K miles when a system such as this should be reliable for 150K to 200K miles. Dealers have been picking and choosing, at their and BMWs discretion, whos engines will be repaired for free or at reduced charge, or no repair allowance at all. The street price for this repair is about $1700 if caught in time, or over $7K if the engine is mostly destroyed because of catastophic valve train failure. BMW refuses to issue a recall on this issue and is not treating customers evenly or fairly. My personal 2008 Clubman S was repaired under warranty at 38K and now has 81.5K and is getting noisy again.

I will post again if I actually do hear from them and they say that there is any possibility or merit to this potential action. Mine was serviced at 38K and I think its getting noisy again and I'll be daggon'd if Im going to shell out $1700 w/o a fight, given how many other posts are already on here about the same crappy parts. Here's 2 fingers crossed.

 

Subscribed. Please keep us informed about what is going on here. Thanks.

 

Sue happy individuals is what's wrong with modern America.

 

99% of the timing chain failures I see at the dealer I work at are the owners lack of care about the car. Not checking your oil and waiting 15k miles to change it is bad for any car. Don't sue BMW because you were too lazy to open the hood and check/add oil when needed

 

The estimated oil change interval for my car from the car's OBC was 23k miles. And the dealer was telling me to go with that.

I feel that you behave exactly like my dealer blaming their customers for everything wrong.

 

R34, Im going to just ignore for the moment that you may or may not work for BMW or one of its subsidiaries or dealers. Lets examine the FACTS.
FACT: BMW has programmed the MINIs computer to recommend an oil change interval. Consumers follow the recommendation of the car's computer, they trust it. I dont.
FACT: BMW maintenance will not change your oil earlier than the displayed recommendation because it drives up their costs.
FACT: New PCM updates in the firmware have changed the oil change algorithm and now made it shorter. hmmmmmmmmmmm.
FACT: Regardless of what you do to an engine, a chain thats properly designed will last over 12K miles. There are people on here at 50 to 60K on their 3rd chain already. Mine was done at 38K and Im at 81 now and starting to wonder again. Many other manufacturers including GM that have produced tens of millions of DOHC engines do not have these failure rates, they routinely see 150 to 200K miles trouble-free, my service provider last nite was telling me about a DOHC Saturn SL2 sedan w/ 306K miles on its original chain drive and this is quite average. I routinely check my oil level and the condition of my OCC system to see if it requires emptying. I have never let it get under 1/2 quart low, and the turbos are known for being oil eaters. Big deal, you live w/ it. I keep 2 quarts of Mobil1 in the cargo bay and refill them from a 5 qt pail that I buy cheap at Walmart, much more cost effective than the single quarts, same oil. BMW screwed up letting a French engineering firm anywhere near their engines and now they refuse to do right and acknowlege the error, so they issue half-hearted patches (new tensioner design) and give some people freebies, some partial "dealer good-will allowance" and some pay full $1700+ for a repair. That is why we have a legal system, not so I can spill hot coffee on my groin and get paid $2mil because Im an idiot or $7mil cause some moron "hurt my feelings" and caused me mental distress.
BTW, I am ASE certified and have 28 yrs experience in the automotive field, so my opinion counts for something (little, at least)
Your turn.

 

Fact: timing chain tensioners run on oil pressure.
Fact: if you don't check and top up your oil the timing chain tensioner can't hold tension

Moral of the story - regardless of how long you wait for an oil change check and top up your oil. We have customers with near 100k miles with the original timing chain because they keep up with they're cars. Simple as that

 

There are many instances of people needing to replace their tensioner and/or chain who were using short OCIs. In fact, according to your post here -> https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...65-post14.html - you are one of those people as you now suspect you have a failing timing chain even though you have been using a 7k mile interval. I'm not real sure about the fact that you were using an oil (Mobil1 5W30) that appears to be the incorrect weight as specified by MINI's owner's manual and information available on their web site, but I suspect that would provide BMW/MINI all they need to show improper care by the owner.

"BMW maintenance" will change your oil earlier than what the OBC indicates. They will not do it on their dime.

No one outside of BMW knows the reason for the adjustment to the OCI in later model years. To surmise it is due to chain failures in earlier model years is just a guess.

 

FACT: some autos timing chain tensioners run on oil pressure. GM uses springs. 200K miles reliable.
FACT: BMW uses oil pressure, so you are correct, if your oil pressure is impacted, they will not tension correctly. Conceded. Still, a poor design, needs to be revised and the exsting customers that trusted BMW with their $40K (JCW w/ options) should be treated better. I change my oil at 7K w/ Mobil1 and original MANN filters and I think Im starting to hear the rattle again anyway. Just because some lucky guy got 100K doesnt validate the superiority or even mediocrity of the design. Its just poor, straight up, and it boggles my mind that "the Ultimate Driving Machine" engineers couldnt ask someone else if they wanted to see how to design a good reliable engine, if they didnt know how themselves. GM had the DOHC 16v Cosworth Vega in 1975 and the 150 to 180HP DOHC Quad4 in 1987 -1989 so this isnt anything new and shouldn't be so problematic.

I will agree to disagree w/ you here but it doesnt change the fact that BMW is giving partiality to some customers, that must stop. Im supposed to tell my cousin, who is a single mother, that when her $1700 is due, the dealer didnt like her so she gets no "dealer good-will"? Sorry, doesnt work for me. I intend to proceed whether its popular or not, being right often isnt popular but its still right. I guess my ministry training taught me that.

 

http://www.outmotoring.com/mini-coop...510017866.html
5W30

 

What is the problem with BMW/MINI giving partiality to some customers?

 

Relevance?

 

lol where's the facepalm icon. while i agree with you, you realize that service intervals on the mini's computer shows 15k?

my brand new JCW showed its first service at 15k when i turned it on, im at 2k now and it shows 12k. thats 14k for first oil change!!! so should people that dont know anything about cars and rely with what their car tells them, be at fault? i think not. im planning on changing mine at 5k anyways, but you cant be that thick headed to think its the individuals fault that are solely relying on the car to tell them when to change it.

 

Do you know if the timing chain issues can lead to burnt valves? I have had the timing chain done twice (first at 20k and then again at 55) and the last time they put the new tensioner in (2008 clulbman S). I had the carbon build up sanblasted at 45K. Now at 65 K miles I lost compression in one of the cyllanders and the diagnosis was a faulty fuel injector that lead to a burnt valve causing the compression loss.

 

I'll take a swing at that. Partiality is discrimination. This guy pays full price, next guy gets a break. What are the parameters for the decision??

You would probably understand the problem better if you aren't getting the break.

 

This is a true statement with absolutely no relevance to this topic.

 

Direct from the Mobil 1 site. The correct Mobil 1 is 0W-40 for a 2008 Clubbie S.
http://www.mobiloil.com/usa-english/....aspx?option=2

 

Not really sure what the back and forth here is going to do. If you feel that you have been wronged and you want to seek action in, that is your right.

If you are looking for others to become part of your class group that is fine as well. But if you are looking for the masses to get behind you and rattle their sabres it won't happen here.No offense but this isn't a forum site for "Honked off former owners of MINIs".

As far as special treatment and dealer good will are concerned don't get that joined forever to this issue. That is a separate situation all together. GM, independent shop, MINI/BMW etc. all make judgement calls on when to lend a hand or not. If you are the customer that is never happy, then I wouldn't go outta my way to go the extra mile. You get what you give in life.

I have a JCW and the tensioner has been replaced. I also have other cars and I do not treat them the same. I drive my JCW like I stole it. And I maintain it. I change the oil more often than recommended. I check and re-check and I enjoy the heck out of it. My other cars don't need the same level of attention. So they don't get it.

If you spend 80 grand on a Porsche you don't go home thinking that you can care for it like a Saturn. And no I am not trying to say that these cars are like Porsches, just that neither of these are like GM sedans or Hondas etc.

Good luck with your quest.

 

Discrimination is only a problem if it is based on a protected class. iirc, the OP indicated the decisions about who pays and who doesn't pay is largely random, with no rhyme or reason. If discrimination were occurring, there should be a pattern present. I'm not aware of anyone alleging a pattern or connecting the decisions to anything other than the dealers make their own individual business decisions based on what they think qualifies as good customer service or will yield the most future business.

If someone really thought there was a case to be made for some improper "partiality", the better target would be to go after the initial sale since everyone goes into the dealership trying to "wheel and deal" and likely ends up with different prices depending on how effective their negotiating techniques are, period in the sales cycle for the dealer, the dealer's "partiality" that day, etc. Every one who bought their MINI from the dealer would be part of the class instead of the small subset of owners paying for timing chain repairs. But no one is suing over that because it is understood dealers, as businesses, have the freedom to strike the best deal they can, as can the buyer. Same is true for timing chain repairs.

 

I must be in the 1% that did the first oil change at 1,500 and then every 5,000 thereafter using only Mini oil and filters and still had the timing chain/tensioner go bad at only 23,000 miles. It's obvious this is a defective part in the engine and Mini/BMW should do what's right.

 

I noticed my chain started making noise around 60k so i installed the longer tensioner bolt for about $20. Every since i havent had any problems.
I will admit the Mini does require more babysitting than any other car i've own, but i'm a motorhead, so it doesnt bother me. I can see for the Non-motorhead owners it can be very frustrating.
I never trust the vehicles computer to tell me when to change the oil. My vehicles are always changed at the same intervals.

Im def going to watch this thread. I dont see anything coming from any class action or any type suit, but i will still watch.

 

It's hard to see a path that would lead from a cam timing problem to a burned valve. The problem is most likely due to a fuel delivery or even cooling problem. The cam timing should not affect those. Maybe spark timing, if the crank position sensor is on one of the camshafts?

 

We have an '08 Clubman S. When we took it in for the aux. water pump recall, I had them check the timing chain (@90K, btw). They said it was 1mm out of spec, and needed replacing. I stressed the known problem w/timing chain/tensioners. I truthfully told them that the oil was changed every 5k miles since new, and that I shouldn't have to pay ($2100 quoted) that much. They agreed to charge me half if I could prove my claim of 5k changes. Well, I purchased every one of the filters from them under my name. They acknowledged that, but I didn't save the receipts for the oil (5w-30, per the decal on the valve cover), so they denied me the help. I took it to another dealer 60 miles away, instead of the 55 miles to the first, and got it done for significantly less. It runs great now (always did) with 102k. Hope to keep it another 4 years.(why rebuild another new car?)

 

Hi, new here. I have to respectfully disagree with the above statement. If the timing of the valves is off yep you could burn a valve. Not sure if 1mm would make a huge difference or not. Most likely cause of burned valves on the Turbo Prince engine would be carbon keeping the exhaust valves from closing all the way. Just my .02.

 

The OIL CHANGE INTERVAL may be 15K or more but the OIL CHECK INTERVAL (and notice the difference from "change" to "check") is not the same. The oil should be checked for level every time you put gas in the car or at least once a month.

If you do not check the oil level and there is not enough oil in the car then it causes 99% of the problems seen at the dealers.

So dont go blame a dealer tech when they are telling the truth about what the reality is.