Well in my book you should surely know then that if you dont check you oil then you WILL have problems.

Just remind me who you are next time so I dont take your opinion. Because in my book it surely will not count for anything.

There is no reason to take a class action law suit out against a company that makes a product and fixes that product in an appropriate manner. And that is what MINI/ BMW has done.

Now to show ignorance is to take a class action lawsuit out against a company when you your self have not done due diligence and done your part in taking care of the product you bought per the manufacturers instructions.

As for the preferential treatment i get at my dealer, and YES I do, is because i brought them over 25 sales that they would not have gotten otherwise. As for others getting preferential treatment maybe it is because they have purchase a bunch of cars from the dealer. There are many ways of getting a better price than the next guy without it being discrimination.

And to the OP there have been many threads on this subject here and all get the same reaction. TAKE CARE OF YOUR CAR PROPERLY and you should not have any problems. I have not and my care has over 103K on it now without a chain replacement. Oh but then again i check my oil more than once every 15k miles.

 

You assume that vehicle failure is a result of owner negligence. Other than the dealer platitudes you have nothing to support that opinion other than the fact that your car hasn't failed. There are plenty of owners that check their oil and change it more frequently than suggested by Mini and yet they still have cold start issues. Mini did not fix the issue in an appropriate manner - - they first deny the problem. Since Mini revised the tensioner they recognize that the issue is partly a design problem. They should warranty the part and avoid any potential class action.

 

So Schatzy, are you throwing stones at glass houses? I notice you like to make a huge amount of assumptions about the intelligence and knowledge of others posting on these boards w/o any real questions or qualifying your own knowledge. Im still waiting to see your book Ive written over a dozen including manuals for Chilton, Motor and Robert Bentley Publishers, plus 4 more under my own banner.
I check my oil level weekly at longest and add when required. It gets changed between 6 and 7K, as I mentioned, as all my other cars have and my 308K 83 Camaro with original powertrain, 190K mile 76 Camaro and 20yr old 186K Pontiac Grand Prix testify to the fact that taking care of a PROPERLY ENGINERED car will pay back huge dividends. If you check again the manuf instructions specify via their OBC 15 to 18K intervals. So that looks to me like far exceeding their requirements. I'm tired of manufacturers slack attitutes and "f-off" if you dont like the cheesy way I build cars. They need to be held accountable, and they are in no way taking any responsibility for this or a recall would already be underway, just like they were forced to acknowledge the electric water pump fire issue. So you personally happened to get lucky enough and hit 103K w/o a chain replacement. Did you take statistics in college? I did. Your sample size sucks.

 

This is obviously a problem with the car regardless of what is causing it, rather it being a engineering problem or a lack of communication between the manufacturer and the consumer. For people that are really into their cars (which compared to the overall population is a small percentage of people) changing your oil every 15k does seem a little ludicrous. But when dealing with the general public (as we should all be aware of by now) you have to make sure to cover all your basis. Definitely when it comes to the world of oil as theres so many different theories out there about it. Between companies saying to change it every 3k miles to changing every 5k miles to now changing it every 12k-15k miles. Its obvious now that the 3k oil change was to get people in to spend the money every 3k miles for an oil change. But nowadays maintenance is included and now alllll of a sudden its completely different. Now if you go in at 3k miles they laugh at you and tell you to take a hike. So the general public that really arent into cars like some other people go off the OBC. And Id be willing to say that 85% of people rely on it. I mean if people werent suppose to go by it then why is it included? Its a catch 22 really. I mean these cars (r56's that seem to be having them most problems) have been out for a 5/6 years now. And just recently the oil guidelines were changed. It just seems like BMW is trying to get something over on people. Like if they dont respond to it it will go away. Its just sad nowadays that the only way to get a companies attention is to completely stop buying their products. This is just my opinion on the matter.

Another thing I wanted to add was that back when I had my Mazdaspeed 3 it was a known issue that the motor mounts were bad. Costing thousands and thousands of dollars to replace everything when the engine fell due to bad motor mounts. The car was introduced in 2007. By 2008 there was a recall done on the motor mount. With the increase in warranty repairs over the years for the timing chain you'd think BMW/Mini would have said something about it.

 

Get a life. Bud you drink too much cool aid.

Nothing quoted at 99% in this context can even be remotely close to being correct. Let mini published those real stats and we will see how many lawsuits will result.

 

As if my life isn't busy enough...more timing chain assembly replacements/recall. Next will be oil pump solenoid and engine harness class action lawsuits. Oh the joy!

 

I have been contacted by an attorney in TN and we are proceeding with preliminary investigations into the class-action that I mentioned earlier. Its high time that this favoratism and unplausible deniability are over and done with. They need to either fix the design or commit to repairing each and every engine as it fails. This is a case of crap design, plain and simple, thats what you get when the French are hired to design your engines. I dont care who pays, they need to be fixing these right and stop making the customer suffer their $1700 to $2200 incompetent oooopps's. These aren't Yugos, they better get that into their heads.

 

I have been following your thread for a while now with interest because we see alot of Mini's in our shop with this issue and have been very curious as to how long it would take before someone got a Class Action started. I honestly thought it would be for valve issues caused by carbon build up...this is happening on a regular basis by about 30k to 40k miles but that is a whole other issue and while it won't destroy your motor, it is an expensive fix.

First let me preface what I am about to say with a little information on myself...I own a shop that works on BMW, MINI and Mercedes and we have been operating for 12 years. Because we are in Fort Worth and there is no local dealer we see alot of Mini's of all ages. I personally have been working on and driving BMW's for over 25 years and have two techs that have been doing the same for almost 40 years. Up to a couple years ago if you pricked my skin I would have bled blue and white and felt that BMW built the best overall vehicle bar none. Additionally had you ask if I would ever drive anything other than a BMW I would have laughed at you...of course not, nothing but BMW. Well that was a couple of years ago...I just purchased a Mercedes for my wife. You should have seen the look on her face when she got it. It wasn't because she got a bright red SL, but rather it wasn't a BMW. She was convinced hell had frozen over.

While Mini is not a BMW, it is certainly made by them and while the early models had a few issues, I felt that those issues were consistant with the issues that all new models, chassis and engines have when released. I figured BMW/Mini would work out the details. And they did...the vehicles with the W10/W11 engines did get more dependable, with fewer issues towards the end of the run. And then came the N14/16 motors in the newer chassis. Early signs were that this was a better motor than the predecessor and then we started hearing rumors about turbos, brake vacuume pumps, carbon build up on valves, brake boosters and timing chain failures. Of course they are just rumors until they start showing up in the shop. In the last year we have seen 4 detonated motors because of timing chain and guide failure, all less than 60k miles and numerous(so many I don't know how many) N motor Minis with the early stages of the issue. Sure oil levels are low on every N Motor Mini that comes in and might aid in the disaster that eventually ensues but it isn't the cause. Mini has a couple of bulletins to update some of these engines with certain timing components and we are checking every one that comes in. About 90% are in need of something related to timing, most the upper guide which is starting to disentagrate, which in my professional opinion is the major cause of the catastrophe. When it comes apart the chain comes unsprung and whips apart everything it hits eventually winding up around the lower sprocket and anything else it might snag along the way. Because these motors are interference motors the problem is magnified because bent valves, broken piston tops and potentially throwing rods.

For any tech to blame the owner is silly when Mini has sold these turds(sorry don't mean to offend the owners of these cars) with it being a vehicle that only requires minimal maintenance including way too little oil changes. Gang, those of you that own N16 Turbo motors, you need oil changes every 5k miles, max and you should be checking the oil level in between. Why, because turbo motors use oil thats a fact, and the turbo is partially cooled with oil and dirty oil will eventually clog your oil line(which are defective also) and burn up your turbo. I could go on about the deficiencies these motors have but I think you are getting the point.

As stated, I have been driving BMW's for 25 + years and the last 3 years have been one let down after anouther and the Mini N motors are just the tip of the iceberg but very indicative of the problems that modern BMW and Mini platforms have. Something is wrong at the BMW Corporation. Their design and execution is in a downward spiral and they are producing some real turds and to sell them, BMW/MINI is selling these vehicles claiming they don't need much maintenance, and that is just a lie. They are certainly not getting enough maintenance during the warranty/free maintenance period(and it isn't free, you paid for it in the purchase price of the vehicle) and when they leave this grace period, they are so far behind the ball on maintenance that the primary owners are dumping them because they can't afford to catch up. God bless the secondary owners because they have no idea what they are getting into.

In the 25 years of driving these cars, specifically BMW, I have never seen a 30 or 40k motor detonate, even when abused. To blow up a BMW motor pre 2005 you would have to run the motor with no oil or no coolant and ignore any and all warnings that ensued.....it didn't happen. The low/no oil scenerio didn't involve timing components rather piston ring/bearing failure. BMW's pre N motors didn't break timing components. In fact in all the time I have been driving/working on them, I have never seen a broken timing chain or motor catastrophy because of timing component failure. Flash forward to today, we are seeing low mileage Minis and BMW's self destruct, with little or no warning during normal driving. Can I tell you gang, this is unheard of. My first BMW was retired at almost 300k miles and that was because it was totaled in an accident. Modern BMW and Minis I don't think we will see last half of that without lots of money spent in maintenance to get them there.

In summary, do change your oil more often, 5k on turbo motors and 7500miles on non-turbo motors. Use high end synthetic and if you are in the south, step up your viscosity to 5w40. Have your shop check the timing components regularly, check the oil line to the turbo occasionally and all of you need to use high end premium fuel, potentially adding something like Redline injector cleaner on a regular basis to stave off the carbon issues(although I doubt that will keep it from happening). Get your auto tranny serviced at 60k(fluid and filter) and as soon as your dealer maintenance runs out, get out of there and find a reputable independent that knows Mini's.

 

Still in warranty for my current R58S, but found an independent shop when the W engines were introduced and still take my R50 and R58S there.

He expresses the exact same feelings you have. Intervals are far too long for the current design. My gf's sister recently purchased a used 2007 MCS even though I warned her of potential 'hidden' issues. Fast forward not even a year later and she's paying the price =(

 

And this is coming from someone who made a customer suffer for a FMIC that did not fit?

 

Is there any fix out there (aftermarket) or do we just have to keep replacing our chains until BMW decides to make a new design? I'm noticing the chain noise when i start the car a lot more recently. I've been letting the car warm up for a few minutes before i start driving and I've also been driving a lot more reserve until i can afford to do the repair.

This sucks. I use to enjoy the hell out of my car. Now i'm always concerned if today is the day the motor is going to crater. I just hope i can keep it going until i can get the chain fixed. Then i wonder how long the repair will last until i get to pay for the repair all over again. Yeah, i love the "Ultimate Driving Machine" quote. Makes me shake my head every time i hear it.

 

I'll just drive the hell out of it. If the engine goes, I'll put another one in it and drive it some more!

Dave

 

Really!?

 

But what about the dip stick accuracy issue?

 

I think it is a bunch of issues that add up to cause a Mini failure. The OE parts are not always living up to the job. Other factors include the 15,000 mile oil change interval, then the dipstick location and curved design that trick the driver, the carbon build up, and the chain tensioner with the plastic chain guides that break.

 

Wow, so every single MINI that comes in needing a repair is low on oil, yet your solution is to recommend owners start changing their oil at an insanely low 5k mile interval? I guess that does put a lot more money in your pocket as opposed to advising people to check their oil on a regular basis and top off if necessary.

You sound like the kind of shop that routinely rips off the customer.

 

He did say to check it -- "you should be checking the oil level in between." The 5k thing is only a matter of opinion and it is the mileage I go by as well. I don't think 5k is insanely low. Particularly in my case, 5k miles is around 6 months of driving. Plus, how much do you think he makes off of oil changes; $10-15 a pop? I doubt plain oil changes are very profitable for a normal shop like that. I would not hesitate to use his shop, and in fact, I'm in Fort Worth and probably will. I've used a few other Bavarian shops around Fort Worth and they didn't seem to be very knowledgeable about MINI's, so I'm glad someone around here is.

 

Woo dude, i think you're out of line with that comment. I read his response as extremely informative and he posted his creds to show that is isn't an average mini owner. I never saw him telling everyone to bring their car to him. 5k miles is not an insanely low interval. I routinely change both my cars b/w 5-6k miles and they both run synthetic.
If you read/understand his post, he recommends changing it at 5k because MOST owners do not check their oil level and due to the fact that the engine uses oil, it will be out of oil within 7500 miles. By changing it at 5k, you are catching it before the oil level dips too low.

 

Personalty I don't think changing oil on a turbo motor every 5,000 miles is insanely low. I like to keep the inside and outside of my car as clean as possible because it works better and lasts longer. Changing your oil before it is full of sludge and dirt keeps the crankcase cleaner and prevents problems.

The mechanics that I know don't like doing oil changes all the time because in the mind of the average consumer the going rate for an oil change on the street is $19 - $25 at a fast oil change place. Happy customers that don't feel like they are being ripped off make life better for mechanics. Do you like having happy customers that enjoy your work and like to pay you? The filters on a Mini are expensive and the oil is not cheap but to do an oil change on a Mini correctly it takes time that many consumers don't want to pay for. The mechanics that I know would rather replace suspension (on a clean car) than do oil changes. How much fun is it to work on a dirty neglected car that the customer expects to last forever but the customer drives it dry?

Newer cars are way more complicated and have so many points of failure. Good mechanics in my area have so much work to that they often send customers away or put them on a waiting list. The only advantage to the mechanic doing more frequent maintenance on customer's cars is that they can (and do) find problems earlier and address them before the customer needs an expensive repair. Finding problems is not difficult on cars that are complicated like most German cars are now. Cars are not designed to be easily serviced and often require an hour of removing body parts just to get to a belt. Alot of the profit is in the parts and now days the parts distributors are not doing the mechanics any favors.

I think it is very responsible to tell people to check oil levels and change oil at a resealable interval like 5K on a turbo motor.

 

Scooter09 Yes really. Read on.

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...am-artist.html

 

suing is the avenue in which you go when you have exhausted all other avenues. have you talked to mini USA, maybe it is just your dealer. i personally have never had a problem when i brought mine in for the timing chain issue i was told there was service bulletin out for it. which means bmw knows there is a problem and want to help the customer.you can also contact NHTSA and file a complaint with them, they are the agency that forces car manufacturers to do recalls if there is to many issues with a particular make and model.(and i can't believe you would ever compare Chevy also known as General Motors to BMW, Chevy has had plenty of problems with their cars and business as a whole, bailout ring a bell.)

 

I am going to agree. I have a 1st model year R56S - '10/07'. I currently have 106K miles on the stock engine, I have been modded and RMW tuned for over 40K miles (225WHP/250WTQ) I am on the original timing chain, granted at 106K miles I do need to change it as it is time but I have had no issues previously.

I change my oil every 3-5K cause I am smart enough to let common sense prevail over an OBC. I also top of my oil cause being tuned and such i do burn a hint of oil.

 

My 2 cents might just be that but one thing I have learned about my 20+ years of driving and personally maintaining all my cars is that an oil/filter change is the cheapest insurance you can provide your car. My Mini receives an oil change every 5k miles. I feel guilty and bad when I go even over 100+ miles. The oil is checked often and the OCC is emptied bi-weekly.

I joined this forum slightly after purchasing my R56S and I began to read all the horror stories and I second guessed my purchase. But every time I step inside my Mini I am reminded why I love these cars. In reading this entire post I understand that I drive a car that is a little more sensitive than others I have owned in the past but what I feel in my heart when I drive her is what makes the ownership worth it.

 

Is the issue only with the S or the justas also?