Recently broke the upper cam guide and sprocket bolt on the exhaust cam. Is there a DIY write up anywhere on replacing the timing chain and tensioners? I'd rather not pay $3K to have this done at the dealer.

Thanks.

 

I too would be interested, or would be interested in helping someone change there timing chain and creating a write up with picture from it. I live in So Cal and have changes cams on a VR6 VW so I know my way around an engine bay. If anyones interested I'd be glad to help.

 

The reason why you dont see a lot of DYI on this is that you pretty much need two different special tools to complete this job. One is a camshaft holder tool that garuntees your cams on in the perfect spot since these engine are interference motors. and the second tool is a flywheel locker. This is strongly suggested that you dont attempt yourself. I am in the fight with mini getting mine replaced under warranty but i know that my local dealer in oklahoma has quoted me 1700 for job and i found another local shop that shot me 1200

 

I had a similar tool for my VW- it was a camshaft locker as well, cost about $20 and literally was just a rectangular piece of aluminum about 1/8" thick.

I didn't need / have a flywheel locker on the VW as there was no strain you would put on the flywheel that would cause it to move. Maybe the mini is different. Anyways, $1200 isn't bad...$1700 is ridiculous- well theoretically any price is ridiculous as this should be a lifetime item and not a "change every 50k miles..."

 

The timing chain doesnt need to be replaced every 50k it would completely defeat the purpose of having a timing chain. the problem according to mini came from the fact that the tensioner bolt is to short causeing issues with stretching the chain. but if you have the new set there is no reason to replace it every 50k just keep your oil topped off

 

So, has anyone actually successfully done this in their own garage? Or even attempted it without success ? I plan on doing this in the next week or so, the tools are on ebay for about $220. Still cheaper than having someone else do it, by about $900 (I was quoted $1100 for labor only on this from an independant shop, $2000 in labor from the dealer). I am giving myself over a week to do it, so if something comes up I still have some time to find a solution. I thought about trying to make the tools myself, but decided against it, since if they are wrong, I destroy my engine

 

My brother and I fixed my 08 S when the chain broke. Head was rebuilt and timing chain components replaced. Make sure the timing is top dead center when putting everything back together. We were off by one tooth when put together but fixed it right away. This was done a year and a half ago with no issues. Now on cold start up I'm hearing a slight rattle from the chain again. I have the most recent tensioner which I'll be replacing soon. Otherwise car runs like a champ. Spent around 1500$ for everything. Every time I drive the car I feel uneasy because you never now when the chain will go.

 

I dont think doing the chain itself is hard. the dificult part is getting your hands on the tools. I know the flag hours are 10.5 so I dont know why anyone would charge your 2000 unless they charge about 200ph, I know the local mini quoted me 1700 parts and labor. I can get parts for about 500.

 

I may be going way out on a limb here so please bear with me....

Those of you who have done it yourself. Are you merely changing the chain, plastic guide rails, ans tensioner pieces? If you want to chain to stay tight for the longest possible time, then you should also be changing the cam gears and the main timing chain gears....

The reason being is that if the car was driven with actual stretched chain, the gears would have slightly wore to adapt to that chain. Putting a new chain on worn gears would quickly re-stretch the new chain to match the sprocket profile on the gears. Once the chain is stretched, I would recommend changing the gears AND chain together.

Now if you're certain the chain hasn't stretched maybe you wouldn't need to change the sprockets, but once you're in there I wouldn't risk it.

Anyways, I don't believe actually changing the timing chain is very difficult, I would imagine it's just the time spent meticulously removing parts to get access, then putting everything back in reverse order once you've swapped the parts. When I did new cams on my VR6, it was a similar procedure and nothing was difficult except just spending a lot of time removing piece by piece of the engine bay slowly.

 

They dont replace the gears. I wont have my reciept untill saturday but i can hook you up with all the part numbers that they say you need when replacing the timing setup. then you can get your parts however you feel

 

I'm pretty much with the others. Once you have the tools to do the job, it doesn't look any more difficult than any other timing belt/chain job. In fact, possibly easier because you don't have to align anything. The cam sprockets and crank sprocket have no keyway, and are held in place by fastener torque.

I will second replacing all the gears while you are in there. The basic list would be something like this (sorry about the lack of P/Ns):

Timing belt
Timing guides (x3, I believe)
Timing guide pivots
Intake, exhaust and crank sprockets
Tensioner (new 11314609483 part)

And then maybe cam and crank seals while you are in there. I think one (or both on the N18) of the cam gears may have a special procedure due to the VANOS setup. If there is absolutely no visible/uneven wear on the cam/crank sprockets you might get away with not replacing them. You can find part numbers, etc. on realOEM.com among other places.

-Charlie

 

My local dealer, who quoted me $2400 for parts and labor (they say that they also drop the oil pan and make sure there isn't anything in it, which requires a new seal), does not change the cam sprockets but does change the crank gear. I ordered the tools from ebay. There are several people selling them, they arrived late last week and I am going to start on it tonight. I'm going to take it slow and have given myself over a week to get it done (while doing whatever else I need to get done this week). The exhaust sprocket is only $35 but can you get the intake sprocket separate from the VANOS? If not, the VANOS unit is $338. Yikes! I am going to replace the oil pump chain and the sprocket, on the crank, for it. I figure that since I am in there I might as well. I'll look at the intake and exhaust sprockets and see if they lok worn at all. All the parts I got (guides (x3), chains (x2), bolts(x6), crank sprockets (x2), crank seal) were just under $400. The timing tools from ebay were about $210. Would anyone be interested in buying/renting them when I'm done? Not sure what I will do with them. I'm having a little difficulty understanding why a worn srocket causes a new chain to stretch, but I will think about it some more.

 

Wow, measured my timing chain last night and the deflection is between 70-70.5mm, glad I've gotten started on this!

 

Are you satisfied with the tools you bought? Who did you buy them from? I may be interested in buying them from you when are finished.

Thanks,

DOC

 

Looks like the N12/N14 cam timing tools are available at Amazon.com for about $250 see:

http://www.amazon.com/Mini-Cooper-En...7050968&sr=8-3

 

Howie,

Is that what you bought?

DOC

 

That is the same brand yes but I got mine on ebay. They were still new and a little cheaper than that, $210-$220. They had one auction and one "buy it now" when I bought mine, after my auction ended (It was $10 cheaper at auction) they listed another one for auction ($10 less than I paid for mine :( ) They aren't too bad, the holder for the exhaust cam has a piece that interfered with the turbo so I ground most of it off. I'm not sure if it is needed for the N12 but it's not needed for the N14. The crank pin piece came apart (the little wire piece, I assume to make it easier to get out) also, so I loctite'd and pressed it back together. Other than that they've been good so far. I made a tool to hold the crank to remove the crank bolt, worked pretty good. Now I've got to go back and finish up!

 

Let me know when you are done. I am interested in buying them from you.

DOC

 

Does the kit include ST 119340 and ST 009250 to tension the lock nut to 0.6 Nm?

Thanks,

DOC

 

Yes, it came with the dummy tensioner. I didn't double check the part numbers but I believe that is what you are taling about. About the only thing I didn't have was something to hold the crankshaft, which I made, I wasn't real confident about the locking pin holding the crankshaft with the torque required (which must have ended up being somewhere around 120ft-lbs or so, I was using an old beam type torque wrench to tighten it, I use it as a breaker bar, NOT a torque wrench). With the new chain and everything installed the measured deflection was about 60.5mm. The best I could measure the actual chain was having the new one be about 1/4" shorter than the old one, but since it's a new PN I would assume that most of that is from one less link or something, I can't imagine it stratched anywhere near that much. Still haven't started it but everything seems to be working so far, engnine spins freely, other than the forces from the springs. I did change the oil pump chain, I don't think it needed it, the only reason I wouldn't have is because it requires droppping the oil pan. Everything is fairly straight forward. Oh, don't forget to remove your dipstick before trying to remove the guides... oops

 

How did you measure the tension you put on the lock nut on the dummy tensioner? With variations in chain length of 10mm+, I guess it is not that critical, probably less then 1mm difference depending on tightness. But, could be an issue if you are deciding betwween using just the "long" tensioner vs. replacing everything.

Still interested in buying the tools you have when you are done. Just have to see if that part you ground off is needed for an N12, which is what I have.

Thanks,

DOC

 

Hope this isnt a threadjack, but you guys are farther than anyone else vocal here. I lost compression on #1 so I'll be removing whole head (2007 N14, 90k, needs death rattle fix too) and if I'm lucky, I'll be breaking down the head and rebuilding it (unlucky, and it's rings or a piston failure - leakdown indicated an exhaust valve failure). I just finally ordered the cam locking kit, but I'm confused how it's helpfull to lock the cams when I'll likely need to remove them to carefully inspect and service all valves/seats. I seems like I may need to
1) lock crank
2) lock cams
3) remove at least one cam sprocket to get chain loose (exhaust looks easier) score relative position first
4) place sprocket back on immediately to preserve sprocket/cam position
5) remove head
6) pull cam locks and cams

Were the cam locks even needed, or is it the only way to ensure a good hold on cams while you try to reassemble chain? I know I this was a problem when I reshimmed my Triumph Daytona bike cams, as cams and their springs don't want to all play nice as you remount chain or in that case fit the cam cage down.

Manual is not too clear about how far to take front end apart before I remove turbo and exhaust manifold. Debating need to remove rad.

Intake manifold has so much crap connected to the underside of it, I stalled on the whole job months ago unable to remove it. I really hate modern cars ridiculous complexity. Electric cars can't come soon enough for me. When BMW made that ad with the NASA engineers being impressed with their 7 series advanced technology, BMW had jumped the shark.

 

The sprockets for the cams and crank are not keyed in any way to the cams or crank. The idea is to lock the cams/crank in place with the alignment tools, then the sprockets can be placed in their respective locations in any rotation. They are held in place by the bolts only.

-Charlie

 

Doc,
I just hand tightened it and it did not come with a lock nut :( The only torque wrench I have only goes from 15-100 ft-lbs. I just measured it for my own curiosity, I was going to change it either way because it has been running so poorly. I should have some pictures of what I ground off I can send to you. I tried to leave as much as possible and there is still a small rounded area where the screw would go. I THINK it would still work but without actually having the engine its hard to say for sure. The screw would NOT seat as nice, since it would be wanting to pull to one side, but I think it would still hold and align sufficiently. I am finally done with then and my car does run MUCH better! I'll try to remeber to send you some pics today.

Karl,
What is your cranking compression on #1? Did you need a specific compression tester to test it? Did you check compression and leakdown? I don't know of any other cars that use this size of spark plug Phattyduck is right, it is needed to keep the alignment of the crank and cams as they are not keyed in anyway. I had thought about attempting it without the tools and then, thankfully, thought better. Even a degree or two can make you lose some power, several degrees could be quite noticable and could possibly even cause piston to valve contact, which would be disasterous. If you're going to take the cams off, I would definitely spend the extra money to buy the tools, why risk the entire engine to save $200? I would think you could get the exhaust manifold off with the front end in service mode, which does not require removing the radiator (or unhooking any hoses, coolant or refrigerant). The Bentley manual (which is fairly disappointing compared to other repair manuals I've had, for instance, it doesn't specifically mention several torques, maybe they just use the general torque specs but with something like a motor mount I would really prefer it specifically called it out!) doesn't mention needing to remove 6 nuts to put the vehicle in service mode, nor does it mention that it can be fairly hard to move the front end, by yourself, when there is sand (or something) in the frame rails creating a lot of friction The 6 nuts can be reached with the bumper on but lower "splash shield" removed. If you can, I would try to inspect the valves without removing the head. Maybe remove the exhaust manifold and try to clean them the best you can with everything else still hooked up, then recheck your compression. I don't think it would be much harder to remove the head once everything is out of the way but I would guess that you would end up spending somewhere around $100 in bolts plus need several new gaskets. Maybe try to fix the cranking compression before the timing chain, and if you can't fix it then do the head and chain together. For the intake manifold, I read on here somewhere (a thread about cleaning carbon from the backs of the intake valves) that it isn't hard to remove, can you just unhook it from the head and leave it in place? If you have any questions, feel free to ask, I will do my best to help, but I may take a few days to get back with you, I don't want to be a slave to the computer at home as well as work

A few things that are helpful/needed when doing the timing chain replacement: a set of external torx sockets, there are 3 diffferent sizes used (I got a set of 11 sizes from Lisle for $28.55), a set of ratcheting wrenches, several bolts are VERY hard to get to, the water pump drive thingy in particular, a really big (sorry, I don't know the size, its over 19mm, maybe 22mm?) 12pt box end wrench to move the accesory belt tensioner, it is VERY difficult to move without one (both putting it in and taking it out of the service position) and I ended up making a tool to hold the crankshaft (you should be able to buy this from one of the tool companies selling the locking tools, I would think), since the lock for the crankshaft is only a small pin, so I didn't trust it holding. I'm sure I've forgotten something but I can't think of anything else right now.

All in all, I would say that changing the timing chain is entirely doable, especially since I have done it, as long as you can set aside a fair amount of time (I ended up taking a week but I was working very slowly since I didn't need the car) and take your time to make sure you're doing it right. There are a lot of bolts that are difficult to get to, there are a few somewhat odd tools needed, mentioned above, and it can be frustrating at times but you can save yourself a lot of money if you have the time and patience to do it (I did all the work without a "helper", just me). That said, it does take a lot of time and does require some tools, the locking tools that I doubt anyone would have that hasn't already done one being the main ones, so if you question your abilities, don't have the time to do or need to car fairly quickly, have a local shop that works on MINIs do it. They are much cheaper than the dealer (dealer, $2400, local shop, $1400), but you might want to make sure that they have the tools needed to do it. I wouldn't look down on anyone for taking it to a shop, it's not the funnest job in the world, but you sure do feel good when you're done

 

Doc, did you get the PM I sent you a few days ago?