Now on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ngQv...ature=youtu.be

 

OceanMini2.....That is weird you are having the issue with a 2012 with only 3K on it. At least mine hit 62K (an 07) before it went. My understanding is the main issue is the tenioner bolt was too short and wasn't adjusting the chain properly. You would think since this issue has gone on for so long they would have put ungraded parts in the newer models prior to releasing them.
Only thing I can come up with is, the tensioner bolt fix is a crock or they are too lazy to replace the originals with the upgraded ones prior to shipping. Maybe they have a number of engines ready prior to the actual car being built so it takes awhile for them to catch up on things.
If most of the issue to due to the tensioner bolt, maybe they'll get it right by 2014.

 

Variable valve timing

 

At this point I am not sure what is going on so anything I say is pure speculation as far as Mini's Motor design goes. It looks like a band-aid (dimension changed bolt) does not fix the genetic (design) defect from what I have seen. Think of the chain on a bicycle's drive layout. The derailleur uses wheels and has a spring tensioner. If you replace the wheels with a brake shoe (as Mini's French motor has) the chain will drag instead of roll. Dragging a chain over plastic is going to make noise. The noise is less noticeable when the chain is covered in oil. The oil acts as the bearing in this system (as far as I can tell). When the motor has been sitting the oil is at the bottom of the pan and the chain is dry. Chains have many moving parts, more than anything else in your car. A dry chain has lots of potential friction. If the chain path is not flowing with the necessary precision it will thrash, shift or jump and if it does it may stretch. If that happens the tensioner will have a difficult time correcting the new snake path chain that jumps. It looks like the chain needs oil on it all the time for the design to work. Pushing the tensioner shoe (that works more like a drum brake shoe) harder will not make the dry chain take the path it needs to at a dry start (each time the car starts). In addition to this the valve timing adjustment adds another level of complexity. I am just attempting to understand this so I may have this all wrong???

The noise my car is making could be an open valve (perhaps part of the secondary air) that is used at start up to help warm up the cat to help with emissions. The chain noise would still be loud but if a valve was open it would make easier to perceive it. The sound could be air running over a sharp blade too. It would be great if we had a "This is normal" and this is not "Not Normal" sound post. Most of the videos I found online are jerky and the camera moves around so much I can't tell what is going on. My Mini is still at the dealer so we will see if it is an issue or not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ngQv...ature=youtu.be

 

We have one of these projects in out shop at this time. car has 60k. engine rattles when cold. We removed the valve cover and found the upper chain rail had broken and fallen down between the chain tension rail and chain guide rail. Lucky for the customer it didnt get into the lower crank sprocket. That would have been like a fork in the garbage disposal. We changed the timing chain, tensioner, both tensioner rail and guide rail, and the upper plastic guide as well. It could be that the chain had stretched and this added length then forces the tensioner to reach too far to provide adiquate tension at cold start until we get pressure. Interesting how simple that made this project so you can remove the entire chain, sprocket and tensioner assembly as a unit. Kind of like they were ready for this failure.

 

Have a look at this post... Clicky

gary

 

That looks like what I am seeing on my Mini. I hope so!!!!

 

Oread, that explanation makes sense to me for the N18.

OceanMini2, that is probably or at least hopefully what you are hearing.

It'll be interesting to hear what the dealership says tomorrow.
I also agree that the sound clips are very hard (most) to really grab where the sound is coming from since they are bouncey and sometimes don't hover over the actual position of the chain, etc.

I can tell you this, at least on mine (07), since they changed out everything, I don't get that morning click at all. It's actually quite quiet. Little lifter and injector noise is all.

 

Thanks.

I will add that the tensioner bolt appears to have a small oil hole at the base of the shaft at the hex-head. Oil pressure through that hole into the bolt "may" add additional pressure to the chain over and above the internal spring (not comfirmed, but sounds like what someone mentioned here regarding oil pressure tensioning the timing chain). If those bolts are defective for some reason like: length (once the chain is stretched or runners worn), improper seal/tolerance to put oil pressure to use, siezed because of excessive heat (those turbo engine definitely get hotter than the non-turbo), that hole gets plugged leaving tension to the spring only or poor chain material and/or build; then I could see why things might start rattling in there.

Let us know what the dealer concludes.

 

Your only getting 20-30 seconds of it?

It appears many of the others with 2007-2010 MCS's are getting it longer and at about 2000-3000RPM too. I truly hope they updated the N18's with regard to this issue in some way.

 

Mine was intermittent and not nearly as bad as most clips posted here but when they measured the chain it was out of limits. Makes you wonder how many are out of limits already but haven't started making noise?

 

We picked up our 2012 Mini Cooper S from the dealer's service department today. The dealer was great. They kept the car for 2 working days and tried to find any abnormal problems (chain like rattling noise at start up was the issue). The dealer listened to the video (link posted in earlier messages in this string for NAM members to review as well) after listing to the car. As we suspected and hoped the dealer stated that the rattle noise during cold start on all 2011 and 2012 Mini Cooper S-es is the wastegate. The turbocharger wastegate stays fully open during catalyst warm-up. The N18 motor (2012 and 2011) produces a somewhat loud and nasty rattle noise created by the rotating wastegate valve face. The noise lasts for approximately 30-60 seconds after the engine starts and is audible outside the vehicle. The noise is "considered normal."

We that have the N18 engines still need to listen for other noises and keep the oil level in the healthy zone.

Chalk this one up to a difference between the N18 and the N14 motor. Thanks to all who helped and special thanks to Oreod for the link. It was very nice to read the bulletin before the dealer told me the same thing.

 

Thank you for the update and I'm really glad to hear the noise is normal.
This answers alot of questions I'm sure many people have had concerning the N18 engine.
Now, if my fix permanetly solves my previous chain issue I'll be one happy camper.
Happy motoring and have a great day.

 

I brought my 2010 MCS in for persistent ticking noise (heard at idle, cold or warm). The repair invoice reads:

"Found noise related to engine speed. Inspected and found oil around timing chain tensioner leaking down. Replaced timing chain tensioner seal and cleaned area."

After driving the car back home, I notice the ticking noise persists!!! I will email the dealer, get a second opinion from another dealer/mechanic. To be continued.

 

This issue is baffling me on my 2007MCS. A year ago last Feb, the full service was performed on my car, by the previous owner.

I bought the car this past July, and it seemed fine. But, every so often, it seems like the noise comes back and stays.

Oil level is full to the 2nd "mark" on the dipstick. The car has the updated parts. So, Im sort of confused. Heard it this morning, and it is 55* out right now, so the "cold" start issue shouldnt be in effect. The noise isnt super loud, but I can heard it over the normal engine noise and through the hood.

Any insight?

 

Not really but I hope it's not the same issue rising from the dead.
I had my entire package changed out in Dec 2011. The SA and mechanic said they have done quite a few and none have resurfaced. So, as with you, I'm baffled as well. Are you sure it's the timing change thing?

 

Sure sounds like it! Like I said, it comes and goes. Maybe Im just paranoid and it isnt as loud as I really think?

 

Did the dealer give you a warranty on the parts and job?
Mine did, 2 year part/labor unlimited miles.
Mine was out of warranty when they did it. Total cost was $1700 but only charged me $500, sent the rest to Mini so I was happy with that. At least it's got a warranty for the 2 years.

 

I know it is warrantied, parts only, by Mini USA. But I doubt the labor is.

 

First of all you need to LEARN what the "cold start" issue is on the 2007 to 2010 N14 engines. It has NOTHING to do with the outside temperature.

The "cold start" refers to the engine being cold, I.E. not at normal operating temperature.

With that even a car started at 95 degrees outside temperature can have this problem. So your statement "...it is 55* out right now, so the cold start issue shouldnt be in effect it totally WRONG

On many cars it does not happen at idle, it happens at around 2000 RPM. Mine will make this noise if the oil is 2 quarts to low as well. so it has to do with the oil in the system and if it is getting to the rails and the tension bolt.

 

Well if it is a "ticking" noise it is not the timing chair issue. from your description is sounds like what you are describing is the "NORMAL" sound the engine makes from the Direct Injection.

Where exactly is the noise coming from. If it is up on the top of the valve cover then it is the direct injection.

 

I cannot hear anything at that RPM, the overall noise of the engine itself overtakes anything that I may have been able to hear at idle.

Just double checked my oil level at lunch, it's all there

 

DRSimmons,

Got my Mini back from the dealership. They didnt find any issue with a the cold-start issue. Apparently the sound didn't happen after two cold-start mornings at the dealership. I flashed the ECU back to stock to avoid warranty issues.

Now I'm running stage 1 FMIC and the sound is gone??

 

I guess that's good news. These cars are really touchy on the ECU units.
I put on a Forge BOV and it was fine for a week but then threw a code. Couldn't get rid of it. The BOV worked but the car didn't like it. I didn't want to look at a CEL light all the time so I took it off, put the stock one back on and no more code. Weird.

 

This video was taken this evening when I left work. Its pretty clear. But, when I rev the engine to about 2k, the sound goes away.

When I got home (25min later), the sound was basically gone. I could hear the chain, but it seems more "normal" and just the operation of the engine.

Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0v585bmqzy0