Thanks Dr. S! The kicker is, my MCS was very reliable and never gave me a single problem, until this issue came up. I'd have kept it forever if MINI (and my dealer) had only done the right thing. I even thought about trading it for another MINI but I guess this experience soured me on my dealership. That's what you get when there's only one dealer in a 300 mile radius. Conversely, there are 7 Honda dealers in the St. Louis area alone!

The CR-Z is a very cool car! I picked it because of it's sporty looks and it's great gas mileage. I'm not out to race every car on the road, so it's responsive enough for me. However, it'll definitely take some getting used to...after all of the power my MINI had.

Here's a pic:

 

 

So i after reading thru this forum, I am worried now about my purchase of 2008 MCS with 37K miles. The car seem to run like new (test drove new ones) and everything seems to work great, starts right up.

So are there any warning signs for this issue before the bad stuff happens? I checked what little service log this car has, and I do not see any mention of a timing belt fix.

I have 3 months left on the factory warranty, should I / can I buy an extended warranty?

Thanks
-=Ryan

 

The OP that ended up trading in his actually stated he loved it but with the timing chain issue being so bad and the dealership not bumping him up to fix it, he opted to trade it. He also stated it's been great besides the timing chain issue. It's his only car also.
So, you've got a little warranty left and you may never have the timing chain issue but you may at some point. Just can't tell you ya or nay.
If you can afford the extended warranty that'd probably be a good thing.
My 07 MCS went to 62K before the timing chain acted up. It came on all the sudden. Will sound like a diesel or rocks bouncing around in the upper left of engine. Mine was not as bad sounding as the one guys however and I was able to have it fixed within a couple weeks of it going bad.
I always check my oil (no low oil) so that was not the cause. The original adjusting bolt for the tensioner seems to be the main issue. Mini has since put out a longer bolt that is suppose to fix the issue. You might ask your dealer about just replacing it for now. I believe that's pretty cheap. Ask them what they think. That may prevent you from ever having an issue with the chain. No guarantees though.
Mine has been fixed since Dec and no problems. Also, mine was out of warranty. The entire replacement which included chain, tensioner, guide, seals, etc. was like $1700. My dealership submitted $1200 to Mini and I paid $500 which was ok with me. So, you can either buy the extended warranty or put away some money in case.
The only other issue I've had with mine is the thermostat leaked which was about $400 to fix. So, in conclusion so far I've had to put out $900 in needed repair since last Aug. 2011. I've put 8K on the car so far and it runs great. No problems.
The only other issue Mini S's have is with carbon build up. I haven't had that problem arise.
A few things:
1. check oil at least once a week. S's can use a little oil if you run them hard. Don't overfill it however.
2. check coolant bottle weekly also. If thermostat develops a leak your coolant level will drop within a couple of days. I never noticed any coolant on the ground.
2. run highest premium gas you can. It will help reduce the amt. of carbon build up.

I know this is long and I'm not trying to scare you off but just make you aware of potential issues and how to possibly reduce them.

Otherwise, enjoy the car and don't be afraid. It's well worth it.

 

DrS, thanks for detailed response. Very helpful!

 

So I called my local MINI dealer for a price on the extended warranty and for my 08 MCS with 38K miles will be $3291.00 for 5 more years to 100K miles. A friend of mine just purchased an extended warranty for his 07 lexus 250 and for 5yr 100K miles he paid $1300.00. So either BMW over-charges for everything, or they know something is going to go wrong -- the bean-counters know. Just say'n.

 

Yea, tough decision. Mines paid for so it's not as bad to have
to dish out a little once in awhile. Hopefully, most is behind me.
I've been totally satisfied so far with the car. I knew it'd have
some issues buying used so I wasn't shocked.

 

The warranty takes over when your factory warranty ends. You will only be covered for one more year and up to 100,000 miles.

I think someone at your dealership does not really know anything about the Extended Motorer Protection.

They provide 5,6,7 @100,000 miles and 7 @ 70,000 miles plans. XL does not cover CD player or Nav systems. XXL includes XL & covers these items.

None of these plans include a clutch replacement at all. Clutch and components are exempt.

And, Every time you need to use this extended warranty there is a $50.00 deductible on each repair.

Go to Mini USA and look at the complete information.

I'm willing to bet that this is just about the most expensive extended warranty in the whole wide world.

 

^^^So true. Plus, some of the other warranty programs offered (outside of Mini), you have to really watch and read all the small print.
That's why I opted to go without and take my chances. I always stick a
little extra cash away for those rainy days .
Also, heard some horror stories about outside warranty programs being a
crock of poo poo.

 

Thanks for the feedback. I even asked him the guy at my dealer twice when I as on the phone and he said it is an additional 5 years. Seems like a mute point anyway... $3300 is just too much. I would never consider a 3rd party warranty anyway, I don't trust 'em. I am one of those guys when you buy stuff like a Best Buy, Target, etc. and they ask if you want the extended warranty, I AWLAYS say "no"

 

+1 2010 clubman S.
Complete timing chain, tensioner and other stuff replaced @ 37,000

Seems a little pre mature for this type of repair.

 

Mine only had 23,500 when it was replaced. I wonder if 2012s have the same problem? Anyone with a 2012 had it done?

 

I keep a fairly close and regular eye on the boards (NAM, MA, MINI2, etc.) and have yet to see a credible report of the associated "death rattle" issue related to the chair tensioner occurring in the N18 engine. This includes model years '11 and '12 with the LCI refresh.

 

From what I have read is that BMW changed the supplier of the timing chain components and the problem is totally gone after being replaced.They did have two suppliers for these parts so that is why some cars have problems and some don't.

It was not deemed a safety issue so no recall was called for. My opinion is it was and is a safety issue and they should recall and replace all of the chain tensioner cars involved.

How would you like to be in a bad neighborhood and have your engine fail? How would you like to be on Mini takes the states and have this problem. Breaking down anyplace is a problem. It should never be allowed to happen.

*********Darn right it's a safety issue.************************

I'm lucky because I have a very good dealer that cares about their customers and they took care of my tensioner /chain problems. But, there are some dealers that don't want to do warranty work and only want to sell cars. Then, There are the thousands of Mini owners that don't use these forums and do not even know a problem exists.

The big shots running BMW/Mini are pretty slick on some things like not including the clutch coverage in the extended motorer protection. They know there is a problem so why cover it under an extended warranty.

I'm not saying that if they remove the clutch and find it all burnt up from someone riding it they should pay. I'm saying that if the throwout crap bearing they use fails it should be covered.

 

Ronnie948 - very well put. Safety issue. I totally agree.

 

I've never seen a report where the timing chain tensioner caused the motor to stop while the car was in motion creating a safety issue.

I would have thought the chain tensioners might be a part where they would extend the warranty period ala the HPFPs.

 

+1 2009 Clubman S
Only 16k miles when brought in for Aux Water Pump recall. Told them it sounded like a diesel (always did). Work order said that SM 11 02 07 did not apply as production date is July 09, but chain was stretched to 68mm, top guid broken. New timing chain kit installed.
Took it home and it still sounded like a diesel. It's back at Dealer and MAF was found to be defective. Will get it back this week. I guess incorrect fuel / air mix would cause it to sound like diesel.

 

It won't hurt the engine but it will cause the engine not to run. I'm sure happy to have mine replaced with the newer parts.

When it comes to engines ""TIMING IS EVERYTHING"" Car will run bad or not at all with improper timing.

The fuel pump issue was handled great, BMW should do the same for the tensioner/chain issue. It would ease people's minds knowing that if the tensioner/chain fails when the car runs out of warranty it will be repaired.

It's not like these are inexpensive cars, They are a premium price and should really not have these problems to start with.

 

Ronnie, if the timing chain fails I was under the impression that
it could cause total engine disaster. Broken gear teeth or part of
the plastic guide getting caught up in the motor, sucking valves, etc.

 

It is not like the engines that used to use a timing belt that when it broke it destroyed the engine completely. (Remember the first NEON'S?) Last of the neon's used a chain like the Mini engines. Ford Escorts were notorious for the belt breaking and destroying the engine. All timing belts should be changed at 60,000 miles.

They now designed the engines to use the chain and a different system of actuating the valves. If the chain fails the valves will stay closed and the engine is not harmed.

Very rare indeed for the chain to break, The tensioner will start really squealing and make a lot of noise first. The chain will just get very loose. The engine will be very rough and if you keep going the valves will not open and no gas will get into the cylinders to fire.

You will be stuck along side of the road.

When you go to your dealer ask them to check the length of the chain. Tell them your car sounds like a diesel and you are worried that something is wrong. (That is if you are still under warranty) The main cause of the problem is that the chain actually stretches and the teeth have a hard time on the pully. The tensioner works fine but the only thing you can do with a stretched chain is replace it. (Ask any old Harley rider)

 

I believe this to be incorrect. If the chain "jumps time" (moves to another tooth on the sprocket), then you will have the valves controlled by that camshaft opening at the wrong time. If the time is wrong enough, the piston for that valve will smash into at least one pair of valves.

If the chain simply pops off, there is a reasonable chance that it will do so when at least one pair of valves is open. They will stay open, the pistons will continue to move. The result is a collision, and significant engine damage.

There is nothing magical about timing chains versus timing belts that mean there is no damage when a chain has problems.

 

I wasn't going to dispute (the not causing engine harm) statement until I talked with my mechanic and he also confirmed exactly what you stated.
Luckily I've had mine replaced w/o incidence.

 

Have a 2008 Clubman S with 30,000 miles (only 1,500 of them mine). It's a Mini Next program car, so I have anoter 18 months of warranty. Heard what I thought was a heat shield rattle, but all the chatter here led me to have the dealer check it out. After a cold start evaluation, the chain tensioner and gasket were replaced, no charge.

BUT what worries me. Tech report notes that "spec" on the timing chain is 62 mm stretch. Replacement is required at 68 mm. My timing chain measures 66.5 mm.

I have only 1.5 mm between me and potential failure or certain replacement.

1. How will I know when the timing chain stretches more?

2. If it is almost out of spec at 30,000 miles, how many more miles can I clock before I really start to worry? I'm covered through Sept. 2014, but I'd rather not have the engine chew itself up.

 

This is why I think some people have had the timing chain issue more than once. I don't understand why your dealership didn't replace the entire thing, guide, pulley, seals, chain, adjusting bolt, etc.
When mine developed the rattle and my SA confirmed it, they out right said they won't just replace a part of it, but the entire thing.
Replacing everything with no warranty runs around $1700. I didn't have any warranty but they only charged me $500 and submitted the rest to Mini as good will.
To ans. your question, the noise the timing chain makes will sound like rocks bouncing around in the upper left (facing car from outside) of the engine. Or as some describe it, a diesel sounding engine.

 

+1 2009 Mini Clubman. Repaired this issue during warranty period.