I'll throw in my 2 cents. I believe timfitz63 has addressed the primary cause/causes.
I feel pretty confident in my mechanic and SA and they've told me basically the same thing.
The tensioner bolt is replaced with a longer one that is suppose to keep the chain adjusted properly.
Heat and low oil levels (pressure) are also contributing factors since most of the parts are comprised of plastic.
I bought my car used back in Aug. with 57K on it.
It never had the timing chain issue until around Dec.(about 62K).
It started one day and did it the next day as well. Following day it was OK but I dropped it off overnight so Aaron (my mechanic) can listen for himself. He assessed it is the timing chain issue.
They replaced everything and stated he won't just replaced the tenioner adjusting bolt because over the miles the chain hasn't been being adjusted properly with the original adjuster. He stated he has changed out a number of these (entire package) and has not had one come back.
So, that is good news. I've now got 63,700 miles on it and it sounds great. Time will tell.
I check my oil once a week faithfully. I have not seen a drop in level and my car doesn't seem to eat oil like some folks claim.
7K oil changes for me.
Another thing, my car was out of warranty and they did the work (good will) and submitted most to Mini so I was very pleased with the outcome.

 

Deleted..........sorry accidently double posted.

 

I don't think anyone does, or ever will make a dry sump system, commercially available for the BMW MINI aftermarket, the production and retail costs far out way, the actual customer demand, that said, I did produce a dry sump system for my N14 engined MINI, and believe me, it was not a simple affair, nor was it cheap!

Providing you always check and maintain your oil level at the maximum fill level mark, you shouldn't have any problems, oh and run a decent oil too.

 

Thanks for the reassuring words! Quality oil at the top mark at all times for me. ;-)

Too bad no one makes a dry-sump or at least a G-force screen/block to insure oil at the pickup in all conditions...

I just found this thread that clears up part of the problem:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...tensioner.html

Apparently the original spring tensioner bolt was not long enough to take up the wear slack in the timing chain over time. Simple enough for part of the issue anyway.

Now, does anyone know if the 11-12 N18 engines have the longer spring tensioner bolt from the get-go?

 

I was wondering if you guys would consider the timing chain issue or normal engine noise. I just got it this week (2008 MCS) and this is what is sounds like. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnSbYqmlWZg

Any ideas how much it costs to fix this at a dealer or should I just DIY the tensioner bolt and see if that fixes it. Thanks

 

Actually, that idle noise from your engine sounds normal to me; the engine naturally has a 'diesely' sound because of the direct injection. But if you've got a CEL (stated in the video title), you potentially have some issue with the vehicle; generally, a timing chain rattle will not throw a CEL...

The timing chain rattle really sounds like a rattle; like a couple marbles being whirled around inside the engine. Bear in mind that you might need to advance the throttle some to get any timing chain noise, if present, to occur; this guy had to rev and hold about 2,000 RPM to get it to really show up.

 

Thanks for the info. I don't really have another mini to compare it to so I wasn't sure if that was normal. I just got the yellow outline check engine light yesterday and I am still trying to figure out what is going on with it. I don't get a code when I try to view it on the OBD. Also I was getting new tires put on yesterday at tires plus and had them check the code on their scanner and they said it didn't come back with anything. It has been under 30 deg F here the past couple days. I parked it in a garage and the temp was around 40 it showed on the OBC but still got the same light. Here is what I am talking about. I tried to post my own thread for this but I can't for some reason...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJn2Z8sRfBI

 

I'm with timfitz63 again (we must think alike). The sound is more like your lifters and injectors. The timing chain sound is like rocks boucing around in the left side of engine. Your noise sounds pretty much normal to me.
If you get the timing chain issue listen towards the curved shroud on the left of the motor.
And agreed, no CEL code will be generated since it's not an emissions issue.
Be sure to check oil level frequently and keep it between the two bumps on the stick.
I'm sure price to fix the complete package (fyi) probably is dealer specific but mine was $1700 for everything. Luckily since my car was out of warranty they submitted all but $500 to Mini (good will). I was happy enough with that. Aaron (my mechanic) won't just replace the tenioner bolt because over the miles the orig. one was not keeping the chain adjusted correctly and most likely caused wear on all related parts.
Hopefully, I'm good for a long time. Car had 63K when issue occurred.

 

drsimmons & tim - thanks for your help. I don't have another mini to compare it to so I wasn't sure. At least I am not as worried about the sound now. However I found out my engine light code was p0300 - misfire random cylinders I am trying to figure out what to do for this.

 

What year is your car and is it an S or non?
How many miles on it?
Are you just getting the light (cel) or does it actually misfire/or hard starting?

 

It has 64k. It seems to just be the CEL because I haven't noticed anything odd while driving or starting it. I guess the code on from the OBC is 031. I posted a different thread on this because it didn't seem related to the timing chain. Thanks again for your help.

 

Quoting myself for referrence.

I'm trying to understand more about my new engine. I see the timing chain has a spring tensioner bolt and earlier someone mentioned the tension on the timing chain is maintained by the oil pump pressure. Am I right in that understanding?

In other words, the spring bolt provides intitial timing chain tension at startup, then the oil pressure kicks in through some other mechanism with the spring bolt as "backup"?

Also, can anyone answer the question bolded in the above quote about 11-12 models?

 

+1 2007 Base Cooper

Car died on me yesterday on my way home for the North American International Auto Show in Detroit (how ironic). BMW Service (no Mini dealer near me) said that the "cam carrier" was shot, probably caused by oil starvation and that the engine needs to be replaced. The service manager said he had never seen anything like that before and wasn't sure what could cause it but suggested that "jumping the timing" could have had something to do with it. From what I have read here, it sounds like the timing tensioner issue could be the cause. I bought the car used and it has 80,000+ miles so I purchased the extended warranty but, knowing how these things work, they are probably going to come up with some reason not to cover the problem. If that should happen does anyone have any suggestions on how I should proceed?

Thanks!

 

All I can say is, if they find it was due to low oil causing the chain to fail you are going to be SOL.
Better read your extended warranty very close.
I don't have an extended warranty on mine because I've heard too many horror stories about the companies finding anything they can to get out of paying so I just stash some money away for repairs.
Good luck to ya.

Mikeveh, you have the base model so the timing chain issue on the S model (to my knowledge) doesn't include yours.
I suppose if your chain broke, yes it'd cause damage. The S model issue is due to heat and improper (or crappy) parts and can be promoted by low oil levels.

 

What do you guys make of this sound? Not the ticking, I know that's normal, but the sound of a marble being shaken in a tin can, if you will.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2952480...n/photostream/

Dealership is telling me they don't hear anything wrong. However, my motor didn't sound like this before winter and it also subsides after warming up. Sometimes when I take off, I immediately pull over in front of my neighbors and wait for it to further warm up because it sounds like a chain dragging.

 

Sounds normal to me as well, although the "diesely" sound is a bit exaggerated with yours (although again, I think it's normal for that sound to be prolonged when the engine is cold, and the outside temperatures are also cold).

See Post #281 for additional commentary and a link to a video of the real chain rattle.

 

That's what mine sounds like when I drive it before fully warmed up. I didn't video that part because I'm afraid it will jump the gear; hence why I said I always pull over before going further. When I get it back and it does it again, I'll video it with some throttle. See how his sounds just like mine when idling? That's the sound of the chain hitting something, just not as fast when idling, no? If that is "normal", that should not be acceptable. How can you expect to sell this thing in the winter, if I was to? What a joke this engine is. It's downright embarrassing when you start your MINI in company and it sounds like a Mack Truck....and you paid almost $40k.

 

muzak -

I'm not as experienced with mini's as the other brothern here, but that noise does not sound normal to me at all and my 2012 MC does not make that noise at start up. If it did I'd be all over mini to get the timing chain update and see if it goes away.

 

Thank you....I was beginning to wonder if I was crazy.

 

Well, I can only comment on the sounds you recorded. I agree that both engines (yours and his) have the exaggerated "diesely" sound at idle, but I can't say whether that's directly connected to the timing chain rattle he demonstrates at ~2,000 RPM, which is a distinctly different sound. If your engine makes the other rattling sound (like the engine in the other video), it could very well be the timing chain rattle.

You might need to leave your vehicle overnight with the dealership so they can hear it at a cold start...?

 

They've had the car for five days. I've only received one call back with many attempts at getting an update. Frustrated about the lack of communication by the SA, but that's a separate issue.

You think the two sounds are unrelated? To me it sounds like the same sound -- a slower inconsistent, almost knock-like, at idle that gets faster at 2k RPM, which will change the tone a little. Perhaps I'm wrong; I'm not a professional mechanic.

I just came across his other video after the timing chain fix and he still has the same knock I have: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CFbz..._order&list=UL -- If you read the comments he had MINI install the revised tensioner (after this second video I just posted) and repored the knock was gone "for now" after that. This has to do with the tensioner.

 

I don't know if they're unrelated (the exaggerated "diesely" idle and the chain rattle). All the turbocharged MINI's make that (low pitch) "diesely" idle sound, and have the (higher pitched) 'tick' from the injectors. Those sounds end up superimposed over each other, and in listening to your idle-power video, I think you may be interpreting those superimposed sounds as the chain rattle. Now, that's not to say you don't have the chain rattle as well. But the chain rattle just has a different sound to it.

When I listen more closely to the other video, I hear his chain rattle a bit at lower RPM's, but not at idle. It's most distinctive at ~2,000 RPM's in his case. Try running both videos simultaneously and comparing the sounds directly. The idle of both engines sounds very similar to me, but I have yet to hear the chain rattle from your engine (based on the video you posted). But that's just my ears...

 

See my edit above. I found the second video the same guy shot after having the timing chain assembly replaced and he still had and is complaining about the knock-like sound at idle, but not the 2k rattle. If you read the comments, he goes on to say that he had MINI go in again and use the revised tensioner and the knock-like sound went away. They have to be related and I refuse to accept the knocking as normal. I can hear it inside my house while it's in the driveway over the resonator-less exhaust even.

Tim, I just want to be clear that I'm not trying to argue with you or anything. I'm a little frustrated at the moment and I know tone of voice doesn't translate in text, so I don't want you to get the wrong idea. I do appreciate your opinions and curious as to what you think after his second video and report that the revised tensioner resolved it finally.

 

+1 2007 mcs

 

Yeah, I agree that the engines (yours and his) sound the same in that second idle-power video... Not sure I know from where that 'knock/chug' sound emanates; still doesn't strike me as the timing chain, though, and I'm not sure that it isn't normal to some degree... The higher-pitched 'tattering' noise is the injectors, I believe. There have been reports on this forum of multiple repair attempts required to completely resolve the timing chain problem, particularly in early-model vehicles that had early-revision parts. Maybe I'm just not hearing the precise sound that you and he are hearing, or I just don't interpret it as some kind of problem...?

When he moved the camera from the left-hand (U.S. passenger) side of the engine bay, where the timing chain is housed, to the right-hand (U.S. driver's side) side of the engine bay, the 'knock/chug' sound seemed to get a bit quieter... Not certain, that means it's the timing chain, though. I guess I'm ultimately saying that I just don't know...

No worries! Thus far I hadn't gotten the impression that you were being argumentative, but I appreciate the clarification!

I understand the frustration involved in trying to get these things sorted out. For my part, I'm just offering my opinions about the noise(s) I hear, and trying to connect them to whatever information I've learned on this forum, in the hopes it may resolve it for you! I'm, by no means, the final authority on the timing chain rattle!