Timing chain issues
RATTUS Deserticus
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,579
Likes: 0
From: Chandler, AZ; aka Lesser Phoenix, aka BFE
+1 2007 MC
Mine just quit running while going down the interstate. It is currently at the dealership. They told me Saturday that the tensioner and timing chain broke, minimum $3500 to repair and they are currently diving into the engine to see if there is further damage. I have a call into Customer Relations to see if they will extend the courtesy of fixing this. I'm not holding my breathe, but I will not give up!
If anyone has had a luck getting this issue fixed while out of warranty, and has any advice please email me tessalmond@gmail.com
Mine just quit running while going down the interstate. It is currently at the dealership. They told me Saturday that the tensioner and timing chain broke, minimum $3500 to repair and they are currently diving into the engine to see if there is further damage. I have a call into Customer Relations to see if they will extend the courtesy of fixing this. I'm not holding my breathe, but I will not give up!
If anyone has had a luck getting this issue fixed while out of warranty, and has any advice please email me tessalmond@gmail.com
1st Gear
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
+1 2007
The only car I ever loved is sitting at dealership and because of timing chain break and total destruction, I'm looking at 9k in repairs. Needless to say, it's exactly what I still owe on it! I have an open case with BMW but I have very little hope of any relief.
Wish I had dumped it off the bridge it died on.
The only car I ever loved is sitting at dealership and because of timing chain break and total destruction, I'm looking at 9k in repairs. Needless to say, it's exactly what I still owe on it! I have an open case with BMW but I have very little hope of any relief.
Wish I had dumped it off the bridge it died on.
1st Gear
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
From: Helotes, TX
+1 2007 MCS. Bought mine used, asked for maintenance history and saw that timing chain, tensioner etc. had been replaced prior to my purchase in Jan 2011. No current issues except for an intermittent CEL.
Neutral
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
From: Idar-Oberstein, Germany
Driving in Germany last weekend, the timing chain tensioner failed; engine jumped timing and valves punched holes in all four pistons!
Our MINI was later declared DOA.
To add insult to injury, the tensioner piston pushed its way completely out of the cylinder, which then let +5 quarts of oil pump out into the engine compartment, front right brake disc, and onto the pavement.
Engine is totally cooked on this 13-month-old MINI. 'Only 47 remaining payments. OUCH!
BMW has the engine data in hand, so I am on pins and needles; waiting to see if they determine this loss is covered by Warranty - - or not.
(Man, am I glad the first oil service was performed by MINI rather my usual DIY approach!)
'Stay tuned for updates to this MINI saga.
Our MINI was later declared DOA.
To add insult to injury, the tensioner piston pushed its way completely out of the cylinder, which then let +5 quarts of oil pump out into the engine compartment, front right brake disc, and onto the pavement.
Engine is totally cooked on this 13-month-old MINI. 'Only 47 remaining payments. OUCH!
BMW has the engine data in hand, so I am on pins and needles; waiting to see if they determine this loss is covered by Warranty - - or not.
(Man, am I glad the first oil service was performed by MINI rather my usual DIY approach!)
'Stay tuned for updates to this MINI saga.
1st Gear
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
From: Ummmerika, *hek* yeah!
Driving in Germany last weekend, the timing chain tensioner failed; engine jumped timing and valves punched holes in all four pistons!
Our MINI was later declared DOA.
To add insult to injury, the tensioner piston pushed its way completely out of the cylinder, which then let +5 quarts of oil pump out into the engine compartment, front right brake disc, and onto the pavement.
Engine is totally cooked on this 13-month-old MINI. 'Only 47 remaining payments. OUCH!
BMW has the engine data in hand, so I am on pins and needles; waiting to see if they determine this loss is covered by Warranty - - or not.
(Man, am I glad the first oil service was performed by MINI rather my usual DIY approach!)
'Stay tuned for updates to this MINI saga.
Our MINI was later declared DOA.
To add insult to injury, the tensioner piston pushed its way completely out of the cylinder, which then let +5 quarts of oil pump out into the engine compartment, front right brake disc, and onto the pavement.
Engine is totally cooked on this 13-month-old MINI. 'Only 47 remaining payments. OUCH!
BMW has the engine data in hand, so I am on pins and needles; waiting to see if they determine this loss is covered by Warranty - - or not.
(Man, am I glad the first oil service was performed by MINI rather my usual DIY approach!)
'Stay tuned for updates to this MINI saga.
Neutral
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
From: Idar-Oberstein, Germany
Seven-year Warranty, in our case!
For better or worse, we opted for a 7-year drivetrain warranty. Somehow, coverage is concurrent with the factory warranty period (?).
However, I am confident the new tensioner design eliminates the likelihood of another catastrophic failure.
I previously had an '03 MCS that was totally trouble-free for the 4 years I had it.
The new MINIs are much better than their predecessors - - with one possible exception - - or two...
For better or worse, we opted for a 7-year drivetrain warranty. Somehow, coverage is concurrent with the factory warranty period (?).
However, I am confident the new tensioner design eliminates the likelihood of another catastrophic failure.
I previously had an '03 MCS that was totally trouble-free for the 4 years I had it.
The new MINIs are much better than their predecessors - - with one possible exception - - or two...
4th Gear
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 477
Likes: 16
From: San Antonio, Texas
What would buying used have anything to do with factory warranty?
1st Gear
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
From: Ummmerika, *hek* yeah!
Seven-year Warranty, in our case!
For better or worse, we opted for a 7-year drivetrain warranty. Somehow, coverage is concurrent with the factory warranty period (?).
However, I am confident the new tensioner design eliminates the likelihood of another catastrophic failure.
I previously had an '03 MCS that was totally trouble-free for the 4 years I had it.
The new MINIs are much better than their predecessors - - with one possible exception - - or two...
For better or worse, we opted for a 7-year drivetrain warranty. Somehow, coverage is concurrent with the factory warranty period (?).
However, I am confident the new tensioner design eliminates the likelihood of another catastrophic failure.
I previously had an '03 MCS that was totally trouble-free for the 4 years I had it.
The new MINIs are much better than their predecessors - - with one possible exception - - or two...
BMC_Kid: used one would only have the balance of factory warranty and thus 13mos remaining a logical possibility. forgive me if I was unclear.
Neutral
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
From: Idar-Oberstein, Germany
The 2011 MINIs have a whole new bag-o-tricks under the hood. That said, I don't think that new or prospective MINI Owners need to be concerned about this particular timnig chain tensioner problem.
Keep the faith, Bro.
BMW will improve their product and eliminate these "glitches" with each new model year. History repeats itself, and the MINI is no exception to this universal rule.
Nevertheless, it IS sobering: In this day and age, big auto corps can still let significant design flaws sneak into the otherwise sophisticated product development/engineering/testing/production processes (RE: Toyota, GM, etc.).
A small shop near my home in Germany still produces replacement part for the Original Mini. Of course, they only manufacture the "good stuff" - - reliable components developed after decades of production of the "identical" vehicle.
The modern MINI is being changed, quite dramatically, from model-year to model-year. 'No small wonder that flaws sneak into the whirlwind design/production environment.
I'm not making excuses for MINI. The folks who make this dream come true are both driven and dedicated...and also human.
I just hope the folks who (re)designed this particular chain tensioner have learned a valuable (and very expensive) lesson.
Keep the faith, Bro.
BMW will improve their product and eliminate these "glitches" with each new model year. History repeats itself, and the MINI is no exception to this universal rule.
Nevertheless, it IS sobering: In this day and age, big auto corps can still let significant design flaws sneak into the otherwise sophisticated product development/engineering/testing/production processes (RE: Toyota, GM, etc.).
A small shop near my home in Germany still produces replacement part for the Original Mini. Of course, they only manufacture the "good stuff" - - reliable components developed after decades of production of the "identical" vehicle.
The modern MINI is being changed, quite dramatically, from model-year to model-year. 'No small wonder that flaws sneak into the whirlwind design/production environment.
I'm not making excuses for MINI. The folks who make this dream come true are both driven and dedicated...and also human.
I just hope the folks who (re)designed this particular chain tensioner have learned a valuable (and very expensive) lesson.
I also go to Mini of Charleston
+1 2007 MCS
Took mine to Mini of Charleston (SC) will less an a week left under warranty to have a number of misc warranty issues resolved. I ask them about tensioner issues and that mine "rattled" when I started it (worst when cold). They said they would check it. They found that the tensioner was out of tollerance. They corrected and now there is no more rattling when I start it and I fill that it runs a bit better.
I don't say this often about a dealer, but the service I've received at Mini of Charleston has been outstanding. I bought the car used elsewhere but they have been great!
Took mine to Mini of Charleston (SC) will less an a week left under warranty to have a number of misc warranty issues resolved. I ask them about tensioner issues and that mine "rattled" when I started it (worst when cold). They said they would check it. They found that the tensioner was out of tollerance. They corrected and now there is no more rattling when I start it and I fill that it runs a bit better.
I don't say this often about a dealer, but the service I've received at Mini of Charleston has been outstanding. I bought the car used elsewhere but they have been great!
Just wanted someone else's opinion on the engine noise and scoop issue.
Neutral
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
From: Idar-Oberstein, Germany
I have had a noise, more like a lifter ticking to somewhat louder than that. This is my first Mini, is that the noise you and others were hearing. Just curious because I am taking mine in for service this saturday to replace turbo inlet tube (coming loose from turbo) and hood scoop warp (they said they would upgrade to carbon fiber scoop for additional $244.00) so that the problem is resolved.
Just wanted someone else's opinion on the engine noise and scoop issue.
Just wanted someone else's opinion on the engine noise and scoop issue.
MINI of Charleston (SC) is absolutely the BEST!
You simply cannot find a better BMW/MINI dealership on this Planet.
Neutral
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: Lunenburg, MA, USA
Yup. That's it.
I have had a noise, more like a lifter ticking to somewhat louder than that. This is my first Mini, is that the noise you and others were hearing. Just curious because I am taking mine in for service this saturday to replace turbo inlet tube (coming loose from turbo) and hood scoop warp (they said they would upgrade to carbon fiber scoop for additional $244.00) so that the problem is resolved.
Just wanted someone else's opinion on the engine noise and scoop issue.
Just wanted someone else's opinion on the engine noise and scoop issue.
They came back within minutes with a diagnosis of a bad cam chain tensioner. I didn't think to do a web search on the problem, but probably should have seeing that it took them almost no time to make a diagnosis so different from mine. It DID stop the noise, so I gave them the benefit of the doubt.
This second time I took it in for an oil change and to look at what sounded to me like a rattling grate somewhere. I thought an exhaust grate must have started rattling over the winter. A resonant buzz at 1800 and 2800 RPM that moved a little as the engine warmed and cooled. It didn't sound at all like the problem from the first visit. Again, they came back pretty quickly saying the cam chain itself was stretched and rattling, probably stressed from the earlier cam chain tensioner problem and this time would take a couple days in the shop to replace the cam chain.
I hope they get it right this time, but it has made me seriously think about extended warranties and the like. Too bad. This is one fun car, but this cam chain shadow looming makes me worry that someday (probably right after any warranty expires) I'll be treated to the sound of valves jamming through pistons as the chain lets go.
My advice to you - get it in quick and mention this issue explicitly. The description of your sound is exactly the same as my first visit.
1st Gear
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
http://www.france-info.com/chronique...13-81-423.html --> It's a famous french radiomedia ( A RADIO FRANCE Channel)
Voici sa retranscription (il faudrait qu'un membre francophone puisse traduire s'il vous plait!)...En France , on commence à faire reconnaitre le phénomène..Nous nous battons pour nous faire entendre
A Jean Remy MACCHIA Chronicle:
Moteur à essence 1.6 de Peugeot-Citroën / Mini : souci de fiabilité:
Ce n’est pas une épidémie d’envergure, ni une hécatombe, comme a pu les connaître le moteur 1.5 dCi de Renault monté sur les Scénic et Grand Scénic de 2003-2004.
Mais on est quand même dans une certaine répétitivité de ce défaut technique, qui affecte le fonctionnement de ce moteur 1.6 essence.
Moteur que vous retrouvez sur des Citroën C3, C4, C5, DS 3, DS 4. Mais aussi des Peugeot 207, 308, 3008, 508, 5008. Ainsi que sur toute la gamme des Mini.
Que se passe-t-il sur ce moteur ?
Un souci sur la chaîne de distribution. La chaîne métallique de distribution, c’est justement un choix technique qui est adopté, à la place d’une courroie en caoutchouc, pour éviter tout risque de rupture. Et c’est un élément qui est censé tenir toute la vie de la voiture, sans risque ni entretien particulier.
Sur ce moteur moderne, sorti en 2006, il y a, justement, un souci sur le tendeur hydraulique de la chaîne de distribution.
D’abord, vous entendez un bruit métallique. Surtout à froid, au démarrage. Au début, ce bruit disparaît lorsque le moteur monte en température.
Là, normalement, il faut déjà être alerté. Et consulter un représentant de la marque.
Sinon, les soucis peuvent être plus importants… ?
Exactement. Sinon, ce bruit au démarrage s’amplifie. Avec des claquements qui persistent une fois que le moteur est chaud.
Là, vous avez un moteur dont la chaîne de distribution est mal calée. Ce qui dérègle le rythme de levée des soupapes…
Au final, vous avez un moteur qui fonctionne de moins en moins bien – avec des pertes de puissance. Et les choses peuvent aller plus loin.
D’abord, une forte usure de la chaîne de distribution. Qu’il faudra changer. Mais ce n’est pas le plus grave.
Il y a un risque de casse moteur. Risque pas très élevé. Mais c’est arrivé à Frédéric, sur sa 207.
Comment réagissent les constructeurs concernés ?
C’est-à-dire Citroën, Peugeot et BMW – sur sa marque Mini. D’abord, ils minimisent l’étendue du problème. Même si les casses moteur ne sont pas très fréquentes, elles surviennent quand même sur quelques voitures – notamment celles où ce moteur est couplé à un turbo. Par exemple sur des Citroën ou Peugeot « THP » et les Mini Cooper S.
En usine, ce tendeur de chaîne qui a été à l’origine de tous ces soucis, a été modifié en 2010.
En après-vente, les attitudes diffèrent entre les trois marques.
Le remplacement du tendeur revient à 180-200 €.
Le remplacement de la chaîne coûte de 700 à 950 €. Et toutes ces opérations « curatives » ne sont prises en charge que partiellement par les marques. Et encore, après des demandes insistantes auprès des services après-vente.
Et les prises en charge, lorsqu’il y a un moteur à changer, ne sont que partielles.
Podcast --> http://rf.proxycast.org/m/media/242042201424/c=information/p=La+pratique+de+l%27auto_11580/l3=20110509/l4=/http://media.radiofrance-podcast.net/podcast09/11580-09.05.2011-ITEMA_20284426-0.mp3
Voici sa retranscription (il faudrait qu'un membre francophone puisse traduire s'il vous plait!)...En France , on commence à faire reconnaitre le phénomène..Nous nous battons pour nous faire entendre
A Jean Remy MACCHIA Chronicle:
Moteur à essence 1.6 de Peugeot-Citroën / Mini : souci de fiabilité:
Ce n’est pas une épidémie d’envergure, ni une hécatombe, comme a pu les connaître le moteur 1.5 dCi de Renault monté sur les Scénic et Grand Scénic de 2003-2004.
Mais on est quand même dans une certaine répétitivité de ce défaut technique, qui affecte le fonctionnement de ce moteur 1.6 essence.
Moteur que vous retrouvez sur des Citroën C3, C4, C5, DS 3, DS 4. Mais aussi des Peugeot 207, 308, 3008, 508, 5008. Ainsi que sur toute la gamme des Mini.
Que se passe-t-il sur ce moteur ?
Un souci sur la chaîne de distribution. La chaîne métallique de distribution, c’est justement un choix technique qui est adopté, à la place d’une courroie en caoutchouc, pour éviter tout risque de rupture. Et c’est un élément qui est censé tenir toute la vie de la voiture, sans risque ni entretien particulier.
Sur ce moteur moderne, sorti en 2006, il y a, justement, un souci sur le tendeur hydraulique de la chaîne de distribution.
D’abord, vous entendez un bruit métallique. Surtout à froid, au démarrage. Au début, ce bruit disparaît lorsque le moteur monte en température.
Là, normalement, il faut déjà être alerté. Et consulter un représentant de la marque.
Sinon, les soucis peuvent être plus importants… ?
Exactement. Sinon, ce bruit au démarrage s’amplifie. Avec des claquements qui persistent une fois que le moteur est chaud.
Là, vous avez un moteur dont la chaîne de distribution est mal calée. Ce qui dérègle le rythme de levée des soupapes…
Au final, vous avez un moteur qui fonctionne de moins en moins bien – avec des pertes de puissance. Et les choses peuvent aller plus loin.
D’abord, une forte usure de la chaîne de distribution. Qu’il faudra changer. Mais ce n’est pas le plus grave.
Il y a un risque de casse moteur. Risque pas très élevé. Mais c’est arrivé à Frédéric, sur sa 207.
Comment réagissent les constructeurs concernés ?
C’est-à-dire Citroën, Peugeot et BMW – sur sa marque Mini. D’abord, ils minimisent l’étendue du problème. Même si les casses moteur ne sont pas très fréquentes, elles surviennent quand même sur quelques voitures – notamment celles où ce moteur est couplé à un turbo. Par exemple sur des Citroën ou Peugeot « THP » et les Mini Cooper S.
En usine, ce tendeur de chaîne qui a été à l’origine de tous ces soucis, a été modifié en 2010.
En après-vente, les attitudes diffèrent entre les trois marques.
Le remplacement du tendeur revient à 180-200 €.
Le remplacement de la chaîne coûte de 700 à 950 €. Et toutes ces opérations « curatives » ne sont prises en charge que partiellement par les marques. Et encore, après des demandes insistantes auprès des services après-vente.
Et les prises en charge, lorsqu’il y a un moteur à changer, ne sont que partielles.
Podcast --> http://rf.proxycast.org/m/media/242042201424/c=information/p=La+pratique+de+l%27auto_11580/l3=20110509/l4=/http://media.radiofrance-podcast.net/podcast09/11580-09.05.2011-ITEMA_20284426-0.mp3
2nd Gear
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
From: California
+1 2009
Posted in another thread...
Picked up my car today after taking it in for hood scoop and 'death rattle' issues. Dealer fixed both under warranty as usual but I thought it might be helpful for everyone if I listed what they replaced on my invoice in relation to the 'rattle'...here goes:
"Diagnosis found insufficient timing chain tension causing engine rattle noise concern....Performed SIM110207; Performed Steps 1-13 and timing chain measured results @ 69mm. Removed and replaced timing chain, chain guides, chain tensioner, slide rail, chain sprocket and fasteners. Performed vehicle programing update. Verified repairs and results OK."
If anyone wants a list of the part numbers replaced, I have those...just let me know. BTW...I love my dealer (Niello Mini in Sacramento, CA)...excellent communication and excellent service!
Posted in another thread...
Picked up my car today after taking it in for hood scoop and 'death rattle' issues. Dealer fixed both under warranty as usual but I thought it might be helpful for everyone if I listed what they replaced on my invoice in relation to the 'rattle'...here goes:
"Diagnosis found insufficient timing chain tension causing engine rattle noise concern....Performed SIM110207; Performed Steps 1-13 and timing chain measured results @ 69mm. Removed and replaced timing chain, chain guides, chain tensioner, slide rail, chain sprocket and fasteners. Performed vehicle programing update. Verified repairs and results OK."
If anyone wants a list of the part numbers replaced, I have those...just let me know. BTW...I love my dealer (Niello Mini in Sacramento, CA)...excellent communication and excellent service!
Neutral
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
+1 2009 MCCSa, replace tensioner at 21233 miles. Currently at 39500, have 100k mile warranty, so I feel a little better about this issue. I hope this new tensioner part number 11-31-7-597-895 is the revised or improved one. Any know if this number is for the new tensioner?
