I had mine in today for the 10,000 mile service and they put in CD36. I had a small stumble but most noticeably I had what seemed to be the yo-yo during acceleration. So far I've only put 120 miles with a few stop and go's. I never realized how bad it was until it was gone. Very smooth starts and the acceleration is great. I get on the gas now and it's smooth all the way up until it's time to switch gears. No more feeling like I'm accelerating on a bumpy road. Smooth all the way.

The reason for my upgrade to CD36 was because of a hot start issue. The car would not start on the first try after it had been ran for 30 minutes or more at speed. Unfortunately since the weather is turning cold I haven't had the problem. Maybe I should make a road trip to Brazil for warmer weather to test in.

 

I just spoke with the service department of my dealer and they were suggesting that I shouldn't do the upgrade if its not a huge deal... cuz it might make things worse... right now I have the stumble, the jerk that you get when you start moving from a stand still. He told me it can be the tempurature of the clutch or the driver or whatevers and to make a appointment and have a service advisor drive / ride along. I dont wnat to make it worse... but i dont wnat this jerk either... thats ridiculous... if V.36 doesnt work and does make it worse then i think they should revert it back to the version i have. I dont think its right or I should have to deal and live with the stupid jerk on the car.

Sugestions??

Thanks,
Eric

 

(Kelley has nothing to do right now but stalk this thread, gnash her teeth, and talk about herself in third person)

It's a computer problem--don't let your dealer BS you. V36 seems to be working well for just about everyone that's posted here (Bisch being a unique exception)

As far as I know, once you're upgraded, you're upgraded. They can't "revert" to the previous software, otherwise everyone here would have just gone back to V.31 or whatever the pre-stumble software was.

Get rid of the stumble and life will be better---but having said that, the track record with upgrades to fix problems is less than stellar, so I can understand the hesitation.

_________________

 

^ What she said. Get the upgrade (and yes, it's not reversible). No one should have to live with "stupid jerks".

 

>>>>>>My MC is going in for v36 update this Wednesday along with the 10K oil change.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>retroom
>>>>_______________
>>>>
>>>>retroom:
>>>>I also have the MC but have had no problem (at least as far as I can determine) with the stumble or yo-yo. I've read many of the posts on this topic and thought it only applied to the MCS. Does your MC have the same problem? I'm wondering if I should leave well enough alone.
>>>>
>>
>>zgocart,
>>Yes, my MC does have the stumble but only on rare occasions. It has happened a couple of times as I'm making a sharp right pulling out of a parking lot into trafffic.... you know the way the driveway angles down and the road angles back up a little. I had my ECU updated to v33.3??? earlier this year because of cold start issues but no stumble.... and ever since the update I've noticed the stumble a few times, though it does not seem to be as intrusive as it is in an "S".
>>
>>retroom

Retroom,
Did you end up getting V36? If so, what are your impressions? I'm taking my 5spd MC in for the 10K service this week & have about the same occurance of symptoms but definitely not as bad as Goin440 experienced. If the temp is fairly cold (under approx 45 degrees) I get the same cold-running issue you describe. I back up, drive about 50 yards straight up to a stop sign, depress the clutch pedal, the motor shudders badly & starts to die. After the initial occurance it doesn't happen again that day. I can do a cold start ten hours later & it doesn't occur. The car has to sit overnight. Very rarely, the idle will shoot up to 1200RPM on a cold start. (No my foot is no-where near the accelerator!)
In summer I get the occassional rough idle with idle speed fluctuating between 750-900RPM (motor warm, A/C off). With A/C on, it usually idles like it's got SU carbs in need of a major rebuild.

Overall it hasn't soured me on the car but there is definitely room for improvement. Wondering if there are any known drawbacks to V36 for MC owners? 11/02 build 5 spd no DSC
I'm also hoping I get 5 extra HP plus crisper throttle response . I can dream can't I?

 

Guys (and gals) the dirt on the boot is definitely from the road, not the soot from the tailpipe! How the heck are exhaust gases from below the bumper supposed to rise up and reverse direction to hit the back of the boot???? MINI's are true hatchbacks and the rear wheels are right at the rear end. In any kind of wet weather or just dirty roads, everything will get kicked up by the rear wheels. If you recently noticed things getting worse it's b/c winter is much worse as far as boot dirt is concerned and then maybe you're looking a little too hard trying to find differences as well. That could also be a possibility.

 

Kelley,
Have you called your dealer back? Are they still claiming not to have CD36?? From what I can tell, 36 is everywhere now. i know that there were some issues with midwestern dealers getting the German CD, but my dealer (Bill Jacobs) has had the CD since late last week. Are there any quality dealers in your area that you could try? Just a thought....

 

Omtoast, I feel so sorry for you. I've been following your travails since you started the Ahem thread at MINIUSA. I've put about 500 miles on since the upgrade and I havent had a single hiccup. Also, I've been keeping an eye on my exhaust tips and they are still shiny, no soot build up yet. My mileage is at 21-22 mpg around town, which seems a little low, I used to get 24-26, but part of that could be my driving(most likely!), sinceI tend to accelerate faster now that the stumble is gone and cool weather is here.I suspect the dealer didnt put v36 in your ecu. Get him to show you the version id on his computer screen! Good Luck!

 

Ok well going to call the dealer and make sure i get a appoitment for the upgrade... Who am i kidding... the expected return is far greater than the risk...

 

Thanks MINISQL :smile:

The next closest dealer is in Ohio somewhere and it may actually be a consideration, depending on what I hear from my service manager when I finally speak to him--left a message yesterday and will call again today after I take the bloody GREs. Ugh.

In teh meantime, however, I've made my mother ride around in my car an awful lot, trying to solicit a verdict of "Kelley, you're insane. The car is fine." But all I"m getting is her opinion that yes, it does feel a bit better but by no means is it fixed.

 

I dropped my car off today to get a few things fixed and my dealer (Motor City mini) said they could not load V36 because they have the German version. They said they could not get mini to send them an English version since their CSI score is so low. So I call up 1-866-ask-mini to see what is up. The guy on the phone tells me V36 is not out yet and has no idea what I am talking and to explain the stumble. I had to laugh a min..... I then asked if he has even drove a mini, he said no, but I got a ride once. What a lucky guy. I am thinking of making a 250-mile trip to another dealer to service my car from now on for things I can not fix or should not have to because of warranty issues.

A saddened customer........

 

I made my apointment for Jan 5th at MCM. I had 2 prior apointments for the update pushed back before this one. If I had not called them to confirm the last one, me and a co-worker would have showed up for nothing.

 

>>As an aside, I'm very familiar with this condition because it's exactly what my other BMW product does ('94 R1100RS). For those that have a hard time believing that the boys and girls in Munich would allow the Mini to be released with a fuel injection bug, have a chat with just about any oilhead boxer owner. This engine has been around since '94 and has been plagued all this time with what has come to be known infamously as "surging", although it's pretty much the same lean misfire at partial throttle and deceleration backfiring at very light throttle as my MCS. The BMW motorcycling community has been complaining about this for years, but we never got any software upgrades or other fixes, and the new bikes (which did have slightly updated Motronic designs, throttle cables, etc.) kept exhibiting the problems. BMW responses were either "there is no problem" or "it's a limitation of the system, live with it." Some people returned their bikes, some sold them, but most (like me) have "lived with it," although there are some maintenance tweaks that help a BUNCH. From what I've heard, the new dual-plugged (two spark plugs per cylinder) R1150 mills aren't afflicted--only time will tell.

Funny you bring this up, because I soooo want to get an R1150 but read about it's problems on the CGI site and I am scared by my similar MINI experience. I've had 5 other BMWs (cars) and never a problem. Then I got a lackluster '03 325xi and then the '03 MINI and now I think BMW is becomeing just a profit driven company rather than a driving company. As somebody said before, I still love the car and the company, but some of the pixie dust has blown away and now I find myself looking around.

 

--->Bisch - your worsened/continued idle problem leads me to think the root-cause isn't the ECU, but one of the many sensors. This concept may be similar yet different than the Yo-Yo issue I've been trying to solve (so far unsuccessful)

Good luck,
Ryan

 

>>I dropped my car off today to get a few things fixed and my dealer (Motor City mini) said they could not load V36 because they have the German version. They said they could not get mini to send them an English version since their CSI score is so low.>>

Well, this is what separates the MINI dealers from each other - the good, the bad, and the ugly. Fortunately for me (and a bunch of other happy MINIacs), MINI of Peabody went so far as to install the German version of Windows on one of their machines so they could do the V36 installs. Score one for good customer relations vs. lip service.

 

Well folks, wish me luck. I'm dropping COOP off tomorrow morning to get the upgrade, as well as to get the rest of my laundry items taken care of. I'll report when I get him back (probably next weeks since I think I need them to order me a new headlight!!)

Cheers!

 

I asked the dealership here in jersey if they had version 36 and they said yes. I then asked if it corrected the problem with stumble/hesitation and he said yes and actually used the word yo-yo which was funny. It was funny how he said yes though. He was like "yeah a few MINI's have that problem." YAH THINK? I understand they dont want to advertise this, because they would be admitting to a problem but you would think they would let people know somehow if this is indeed a real fix. I'm still iffy about it but i have until next tuesday to figure out what im going to do.

 

Took COOP in this morning for the laundry lsit (including V 36). Got a loaner car that I"ll probably have for the weekend, since I'm fairly certain that they're going to need to order parts. Never had a loaner before from Bill Jacobs, so I didn't know what to expect. They gave me a Z4 (!) to goof around in while COOP's in the shop. I don't think I'll complain too much...

Incidentally, on the service forms (which had already been prepared when I arrived), it stated that Software CD36 was being installed because of Stumble. I'm serious. That's what it said. Funny how Stumble and Yo-Yo have become part of our dealers' vocabularies all of a sudden...

 

It's just amazing to read that some dealers have CD36 and some don't, and some have the German version and others, maybe. What the hell is going on with BMW/MINI anyway? You would think that the parent organization would make sure that ALL dealers get the right upgrade software at the same time. I say BMW/MINI is stonewalling the problem and don't want to make this a "public" issue, while (still) looking for a fix for the stumble/yo-yo. I feel for all of you.

 

Well, the stonewalling conspiracy theories should officially rest in peace now...

I've got the new 36 software in my MCS, and it is an entirely different car. The throttle response is completely different. The acceleration is lots smoother. It is not as jumpy, for better and for worse.

My biggest impression is this: the throttle response (as I have discussed previously in this very thread) has changed. I think that this was where the biggest issues were with the software before, and it must have been somehow related to the stumble. Before, with the old stumbly software, there was a significant delay (I'd say somewhere between .5-.75 of a second) before a depression of the accelerator would register with the engine. By that I mean that slapping the pedal to the floor would not INSTANTLY register. It took a while before you'd see the tachometer needle jump, but when it did, it jumped pretty quickly.

With the new CD36 software, the needle jumps MUCH more quickly (or at least it begins its jump), but it's overall motion is slower, or more even. The upshot is that (I would guess) the 0-60 mph time (or 1/4 time) is probably about the same, it's just that (I would guess again) 60 ft. speed is probably faster with the new software. Does that all make sense? I think it STARTS to accelerate more quickly than the old software, but the overall speed of throttle is slower. I'm guessing that this is what some people meant when they said that the overall feel is "rounder" than before.

I want to talk more about other people's impressions of the new software!

 

Maxwell... Congrats!


Ok...

I can make my car go without stumbling now, so I think that perhaps I have been the cause of it since whatever reprogramming was done. My theory here is that I'm so used to doing super low RPM take-offs and feathering the clutch that it's taking me a while to re-learn how to drive it. If I take get off the clutch at significantly higher RPMs, and convince myself not to feather in the manner to which I have become accustomed, I have a smoothe take-off.

BUT

The car has bogged at least twice per day--that's worse than pre-"upgrade"--and I'm baffled by the way the car accelerates now. If I'm in first or second, riding at around 3k RPMs (just thinking about getting ready to shift, but I'm in traffic) then decelerate, by getting off the throttle, to about 2-2.5k RPMs and then RE-engage the throttle (not flooring it or anything, just normally reapply pressure to the throttle), the car lunges madly as it tries to takeoff. It kind of makes me think of that stupid Mercedes commercial, where the weird beast is living under the hood. It feels as though the engine is going to rip free of the car, in attempts to accelerate as quickly as possible. Prior to my "upgrade", the car did this, but not nearly as violently. In all other aspects, the car runs a lot more smoothly--far from my ideal, but it's better. So, it's like whatever they did to my car simultaneouly made it run smoother AND rougher. :???: :???: :???:

The service manager hasn't called me back and I didn't get a chance this week to call him again, so I still don't know what they did. I'll be very sad if I DO have V.36, though, as that means there's no room for improvement...

_________________

 

I still got about 3k miles to my first InspectionI....so got some time
deciding whether to get v36 done or not. Mine's a 6/03 build MCS...

Here's what my car's doing now:

- I get a hicup at cold starts unless I slip 1st a bit and slip 2nd.
After this 1st full clutch engagement, there is no hiccup.

- No problems with idle, no problems with cold or hot starts.

- I get about 28.5+ mpg.

- I get occasional light yoyo in 2nd gear, but it's not annoying.

- I get a hiccup if i street start from about 2k rpm and slip the
clutch a tad longer than I should, but no hiccup if i start at a
lower rpm.

- If i was to drag race, I would rev to 3k and drop the clutch.. no
stumble or hiccup.


What do you guys recommend? Should I keep my current 6/03
build program or upgrade to v36?

 

I think you should dump the clutch closer to 4000 RPM when you drag race!

Seriously: I think that the 36 is a big improvement over the stock software. If you're getting the hiccupping, then I would argue that your throttle control is probably a little screwey in general. But hang around NAM for the weeks that it takes you to get to your inspection, and perhaps you'll have a better idea.

 

Another side thought:

Since I genuinely feel like the new software has a massive alteration to the programming/operation of the throttle, I wonder how much the current aftermarket ECU software will need to change to adapt to this new programming. I honestly don't know how aftermarket ECU tuning works at all, but I would sure love to see this new 36 software upgraded to speed up the throttle curve. I think it would be phenomenal. At the same time, I would be really upset if I had spent several hundred dollars to do an ECU mod to my stumbly software now that 36 is out.

Any thoughts on this? Ryephile, you out there?

 

Chitowncoop- Do you mean that my foot's throttle control is screwy, or
the car's ECU output's are screwy? (i'm not offended if you mean it's
my foot's throttle control as I would like to fix that area if it is my
problem. :smile: ) but its kinda hard to believe that it is my foot's problem
as i could release it as gently as possibly could, but it would still
hiccup.

I also found that 4k rpm was too much wheel spin for my tires so
i rev to about 3500rpm, re-rev and engage at 3k rpm and mash the
gas to burn the tires a bit while it grabs the pavement.

_________________
03MCS IB/Blk: 123, Aerokit, R90 17x7, TK5 16x7, 6CDMP3, and a few more.