I will still say that if you have the stumble, this version has completely eliminated it. Gone. I really feel that my idle now could be a vacuum leak or something simple. It sounds like I have an isolated case. Maybe the gas I had to buy at Cumby's was bad...

 

>>Has anyone with the new SW (36) noticed any increase in exhaust soot covering the back of the car or decrease in fuel mileage?
>>
>>I'm seeing about 10% reduction and more blackness on the hatch. Could be a change in the fuels for winter but it seemed to coincide with the new SW for me.

Todd--

I'm seeing the same thing...I just noticed it recently. More soot, and less MPG. I was thinking it was just me. The MPG I attributed to more traffic than usual lately, but the soot was a new one...and covered everything back there. This may be the one time I'm lucky to have a black car.

 

I really don't mean to offend, as I'm sure that you guys know soot from crud but....

Those who are noticing soot, where do you live? My MINI butt is blackened, but it's just salt and crud inherent to winter. Where does the fine spray of black winter dust come from, anyway?

I ask because I'm paranoid, and also because the prevalent theory about the stumble cause has been too rich a fuel/air mixture. I would think, then, that the fix should decrease the soot, as the mixture would be tweaked.

I have loads of soot on my tailpipes as it is, and my fuel economy nearly brings me to tears... Eegads.

 

I got v36 yesterday morning, and not only is my stumble gone, but my car has been transformed...for better or worse is probably a matter of opinion...

My car was twitchy, rough, jagged, unpredictable and really edgy...a very touchy throttle, not like many I've read here talking about any delay in throttle response (except the stumble and yoyo)

the car I'm driving post v36 is smooth, quiet--for the first time I HEAR that CAI/supercharger whine others have posted about! The whole car seems refined...but I sorta miss that edgy throttle, now and then...(only briefly!)

Haven't noticed the soot, but my MPG is ABSOLUTELY improved--can't wait to get the actual numbers...I had been getting 20-22, and i just don't believe I'm one of the most aggressive drivers on this board...

Big question now is, life after v36--how will it change my whole mod outlook????

 

I'm now at about 500 miles post CD36 upgrade, and I can say that the improvements I noticed immediately have held!! So, IMO, it's a fix.

I'd say that fuel economy is about the same as it was before the upgrade...it may be slightly better...but I've also changed over to my winter tires/wheels which are smaller, narrower, and (considerably) lighter so that could well give me another mile or two per gallon anyway. And as for soot, I'm with Toast here. My MCS has always blackened up the tailpipes and back hatch like no other car I've ever owned except for a diesel. So, I'd be hard pressed to notice it getting any worse.

One editorial comment -- HOW THE HECK did BMW ever manage to release cars that worked as poorly as many (e.g., mine) did before this "upgrade"???? The difference between my car w/o CD36 and my car post-CD36 is like night an day. Did no one in Munich/Oxford/etc. actually drive these friggin' cars before shipping them? I realize that many owners aren't going to bother reflecting on this...what's fixed is fixed, right?...but it's actually really astounding that BMW/MINI quality control and/or engineering is so asleep at the wheel as to allow this problem to impact so many owners. Oh, and do you think that any of us (now former) stumblers will receive a speck of compensation for the 20,000 miles of less than stellar driving/ownership experience??!!! Bah!

 

Ah, Jsun... these are the questions that will plague us for the rest of our lives!!!

I tell people (generally friends on their first time ride in Ollie) about the stumble and their response is always the same. First it's something along the lines of "But I thought BMW made these?" (well....) and then it's, "Well, they're a pretty reputable company, why would they sell crappy cars?" (well...) and finally, my favorite: "Are you sure it's not you? I mean, it doesn't do it all the time--and sometimes it's worse than others. Do you really know how to drive your car?" (bloody hell... YES!)

It boggles the mind that nobody caught this issue in a quality control check, and my mind is further boggled by the concept that yes, somebody HAD to have caught it, but just didn't care enough to fix it. I don't care what anybody says, there's no car on the market so "cheap" that the owner shouldn't expect it to function properly. So many times I've seen people half excuse it as a "well, what do you expect for a $24k car?" A heck of alot, thankyouverymuch!

 

Bisch,
Sounds like your problem is pretty isolated. My S is also a May build, and as I said before, it stumbles like crazy but no funny idle (my '02 MC on the other hand had an absolutely bizarre idle).

JMoser,
Now you've got me scared that throttle response will be even worse? The only way I know of to get a "twitchy" throttle is to punch it when you've already got the engine spinning it over 4000 RPMs. To get a real feeling for the "throttle delay" put your car in neutral, then slap the throttle as quickly as possible with your toe and make it hit the floor, for a nice audible "smack" sound (as it hits the floor). Notice that it takes at LEAST 1/2 to 1 full second for the tach to respond at all. Now go try this on any other comparable priced "sporty" car (an Acura RSX, like I recently test drove, for example). That needle will jump just as soon as your toe moves the accelerator; by the time you hear the slap against the floor, the tach needle is well past "noon."

Jsun,
Glad to hear that you're finally back in business. You've been my "stumble buddy" from way back, and I couldn't be happier for you. I'm taking mine in next Friday for the upgrade, and I'm really excited to feel the difference. It's going to make one hell of a Christmas present! Tell me this: Do you see any drawbacks? What do you think about the throttle response? Any worse? Any better? Thanks.

OM,
When are you going in for your upgrade? What are you waiting for?

Everyone,
Thank God this whole saga is over. Let's hope that BMW/MINI have learned some lessons from this!

Maxwell

 

My MINI is a CVT and I see in a previous post that someone said v36 was only a manual update. Unless my dealer is crazy, it is actually aimed at fixing a lot of the CVT issues as well. I had it installed in late October after my car stalled in traffic (for the 3rd time). I used to have fluctuating idle as well when I would be at a stop light and it didn't start right away each morning. The version wasn't officially out yet so they hijacked my computer and sent it to NJ.

I am knocking on wood as I say this, but so far so good. She starts right up in the morning and has not stalled or had a fluctuating idle since they installed it. Also the major lurch and frog hopping at 10 m.p.h. has been significantly reduced (although not completely gone in some situations).

Anyways just thought I would post as a v36 CVT motorer....

-amy

 

Stumble buddy...a dubious distinction indeed! But true.

You'll definitely feel the difference. Throttle response is smoother and more progressive. I think that others here have said it, but with CD36, you don't get as much of a "bite" at various points in the throttle progression. At first, it made me think that my car actually had LESS power...but I found as I learned how to drive it again that this was not true. It's just that power comes on much more smoothly than before.

Once your stumble is fixed, it is SOOOOOO clear that the way your car drove before is just so, so, wrong. That's why I'm amazed at BMW/MINI's initial blowing off of this as actually being a problem AND how some dealers kept insisting that stumbling cars didn't stumble. Fortunately, my dealer never ignored my problem (they always acknowledged how crappy it drove)...they just couldn't do anything about it until CD36.

 

Mine didn't stumble when I first got it, only after I had an upgrade to cure a hard start problem. I can understand how a fix for one thing can adversely affect some other parameter. Look at the Shuttle, they put foam on the tank to keep ice from forming(which it did), but nobody thought it would blow off and knock a hole in the wing.Dont think I'm letting MINIBMW off the hook though, they should have been a LOT more up-front about the stumble and drivability issues and offered some low or no cost concessions, like extending the warranty or a free tank of gas or even a free hat for God's sake, not just ignoring the problem. Would I buy another MINI?
All in all I'd have to say yes.Id test drive it first, but yes, I'd buy one.Would I recommend one? Again I'd have to say yes, but, and this is the difference, I would give a warning to the buyer about what to expect. Prior to the stumble I would have had no reservations.This whole fiasco has just taken some of the pixie dust away and made the MINI a merely remarkable car instead of a marvelous car, well, not so much the car as the ownership experience. Any way I'm glad my stumble is gone(knock on wood), and if I have to buy gas a little more often, or wash the car more often , thats OK, it means I'm either driving or I've got my hands on that lovely body again(I need a cold shower!)

 

>>I really don't mean to offend, as I'm sure that you guys know soot from crud but....
>>
>>Those who are noticing soot, where do you live? My MINI butt is blackened, but it's just salt and crud inherent to winter. Where does the fine spray of black winter dust come from, anyway?
>>
>>I ask because I'm paranoid, and also because the prevalent theory about the stumble cause has been too rich a fuel/air mixture. I would think, then, that the fix should decrease the soot, as the mixture would be tweaked.
>>
>>I have loads of soot on my tailpipes as it is, and my fuel economy nearly brings me to tears... Eegads.

I'll field this one!

There are just too many variables here for me to make a stand. I will say the the dirt that I'm finding on the boot is blacker than it has been, but I'm driving a black car, so it doesn't show until I clean it (though the salt, etc. sure does!).

Whether the black dirt is a result of soot from a rich mixture, or just blacker dirt on the road with the coming of the Mid-Atlantic winter (for whatever reason), I won't hazard a guess. OK, maybe one...early coal from Santa to all of those BMW execs who failed to do decent quality control on their software...

And yes, my tailpipe has always been sooty...I consider that a personal problem.

 

<<<OM,
When are you going in for your upgrade? What are you waiting for?>>>

CHI...
I dropped Ollie off at the dealership on Wednesday--they're sending my ECU to Jersey. :smile:

 

Thanks Om...maybe a result of my living in DC now...no courage to take a stand?

 

I had v36 loaded on my car last week. I have 2002 MCS. The stumble is completely gone, the throttle response is smoother, and my cold start problem is also gone. v36 seems to be good software. Give it a try...

Aaron

 

Hi folks, my first post to a NAM forum, so bear with me...

My wife took delivery of her 04 MCS last week, and we've already got 700 miles on it. She let me drive it on some great twisty mountain roads yesterday. It's still in break-in mode, so I didn't push it too hard (but it was no Sunday drive, either!). Anyway, I noticed under certain conditions (accelerating around 3K rpm, most prominent in 3rd gear but felt in 2nd and 4th, too) a slight hesitation or stumble. Reading through some of these threads on stumble complaints, I wonder if that's what I've got (or is it the "yo-yo"?). I'm going to call the dealer tomorrow to see if they can tell me which version of SW we have, and get it upgraded if required.

Another problem I noticed was a lean backfire. Descending a mountain road in gear, if I apply just the slightest amount of throttle to relieve some engine braking I hear distinct popping in the exhaust. It's quite muffled by the cat and silencer, but it's an unmistakable lean backfire. Has anyone else experienced this?

As an aside, I'm very familiar with this condition because it's exactly what my other BMW product does ('94 R1100RS). For those that have a hard time believing that the boys and girls in Munich would allow the Mini to be released with a fuel injection bug, have a chat with just about any oilhead boxer owner. This engine has been around since '94 and has been plagued all this time with what has come to be known infamously as "surging", although it's pretty much the same lean misfire at partial throttle and deceleration backfiring at very light throttle as my MCS. The BMW motorcycling community has been complaining about this for years, but we never got any software upgrades or other fixes, and the new bikes (which did have slightly updated Motronic designs, throttle cables, etc.) kept exhibiting the problems. BMW responses were either "there is no problem" or "it's a limitation of the system, live with it." Some people returned their bikes, some sold them, but most (like me) have "lived with it," although there are some maintenance tweaks that help a BUNCH. From what I've heard, the new dual-plugged (two spark plugs per cylinder) R1150 mills aren't afflicted--only time will tell.

Sorry for the tangent, but I think it's relevant. The recent comments about exhaust soot caught my eye. I wonder if the new software does, in fact, simply richen up the mixture at certain points. That would certainly help out the oilhead bikes--I've hooked up an O2 sensor meter to mine, and the surge/stumble is defintely a lean misfire or incomplete combustion. Unfortunately, no chip tuner has tackled the bikes' problems yet. I think I'll wire up the meter to the MCS to see what it looks like. Do these cars use normal O2 sensors or the new wide range variety? I'm not sure if the meter would care anyway (it's just indicating the voltage swing around 0.5V). If richness is the v3.6 solution, I wonder about the long-term implications to the cat. O2 meter should shed some light on that, too.

Sorry for the length of the above. Thanks in advance for answers to questions above and comments.

- racingiron

 

hmmmm. I think what you are feeling is the yo-yo. The stumble is at about 1500-1900rpm, which causes the car to buck so friggin violently that your forehead slams off the steering wheel and then causes severe whiplash as your head snaps back into the headrest! Meanwhile, your passenger is looking at you and thinking that you are some kind of moron that has never driven a stick shift! The people riding in the car just off your rear bumper are laughing because they think you just left your first drivers ed class, and mommy let you drive her "cute" car home!!
...anyway, I think it's just the yo-yo.

I had better go drink my coffee now...sorry for the above.

 

Yeah. You're definitely talking about the Yo-Yo. As for the backfiring, this is the first I've heard of it. There's a definite "burble" to the exhaust, which sounds almost like a "light" backfire to my ears, but it's typically heard when kicking in the clutch from reasonable revs (i.e. 4000+) and letting the engine speed quickly drop. I would recommend that you start a "clean" thread in this forum to ask about the backfiring that you're getting.

Oh, and welcome to NAM! :smile:

 

Welcome racingiron, you'll find a good amout of two wheel people here that also love minis. My user name is due to the fact that I like two cilinder motorcycles. I own an aprilia falco wich is a 90 degree v twin and a yamaha rz350 wich is a parallel twin. Also owned several ducati motorcycles over the years. Anyway, I've been driving my 03 mcs now for 11000 miles and have been coming here for information for as long as I owned my car wich is 7 or 8 months.
There is a lot of information about the different character traits the minis display. I would think that the hesitation you are discribing is known here as yoyo and the backfire you describe is what people here call burble. You will find no yoyo fans here but you will find people who love the burble. Include myself in the love the burble camp. My car had the stumble, the yoyo and felt very weak taking off in first gear when new. A 15% reduction pulley and an alta intake system took care of the low power feeling and just about eliminated the stumble. The yoyo however became more pronounced. I modified my car at about 3000 miles and have been following the sofware threads in the quest for a more fun but more importantly better driving car. I've stayed away from other BMW sofware versions that at some point offered hope in trying to solve our cars driving problems. It sounds like v36 is the best effort yet but I've also read that is good for cleaning about 90% of the yoyo. Well, I'm signed up for a v36 flash next monday. I'm a little concerned about it since I'm pleased with the way my car works despite the yoyo. I'm hoping it'll be the answer to my prayers but I don't think it'll be enough to satisfy some members of this comunity. I hope you end up loving your cars as much as I love mine, good luck with it.
:smile:

 

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!

My car is back from an ECU reprogramming and it's WONDERFUL!!!! It's like a new car! Oh god, it was SO BAD before--I knew it was bad, but now I *really* know that it was bad. Throttle response is way smoother, however I don't feel that the "edginess" has been terribly compromised. It has maintained a degree of jumpiness when accelerating suddenly, but all in all it seems like a more rounded jumpiness--if that makes any sense.

The stumble is GONE! But I must say that, despite all the great reviews of this fix after accruing some mileage, I'm still completely paranoid that it's going to start stumbling again. I can't wrap my brain around the apparent fact that I'll never have to feather the clutch on a normal start, ever again. I can stop automatically compensating, for the expected forward jerk, by tightening my neck muscles. I don't have to warn passengers about their risk of whiplash.



Since I'm in the middle of a winter wonderland right now I can't really drive it like I want to--too much slippy slush and clogged roadways. Hopefully conditions will improve soon so that I can start looking for soot increase and drive enough to get some idea of fuel economy.

Oh jeez... HAPPY!!!

 

That's great news, Kelley! Congratulations!

Mine's officially going in on Friday with a nice "laundry list" of items that I've been saving up (headlight issues, bonnet "rubbing" and so forth). I'm hoping that it will be a quick turnaround so that I can show off when my family's in town for Christmas.

Great to hear that most of you are really enjoying your new CD36 software. I'm still wondering about throttle delay, though. As I've said before, I feel that there is a serious PROGRAMMED delay in throttle response on my car as it is now (with the factory software). The decrease in "edginess" being reported for 36 has me worried that response may be slowed even more than the original.

Would anyone with 36 mind doing a "seat of the pants" test? While in neutral, when doing very quick "to the floor" revving, how's the delay? Better, worse, or about the same?

Cheers!

 

I tried the throttle "slap" test you suggested and it is just as I feared, the engine didn't begin to rev until after I had already taken my foot of the throttle.Mini uses a particularly heavy flywheel(good for smoky burnouts) compared to other cars which dampens out its responsiveness.However, if you are "on the cam" around 4000 rpm it should respond quickly.Engines with large intake volumes also bog down when you go to WOT from idle, it just takes awhile to get the air moving faster, thats why Acura and some other cars have variable intake runners. Maybe one day MINI will too.

 

update:

MC 5spd stumble gone.... but think dealer smoked my clutch. After driving the first 28000 miles, I have a sense of feel about it. Its definently different. Oh, and they used a good 1/2 tank of fuel too. :evil:

RE: MPGs, I'm seeing lower mpgs too. My car is dirty, can't tell about the soot, but then I haven't really looked either.

 

I fear that I may be forced to rescind my wonderful and joyous post

 

Uh oh. Here we go again. Sounds to me like you don't have 36 installed yet. And why would they have been sending the chip to Jersey? Does your dealer not have the new CD yet? Puzzling. I think you'll find that by tomorrow, your car will have "re-learned" the stumble. Sounds like you just got the positive effects of a battery disconnect. I tried that once and enjoyed the hour of stumble relief.

Ugh. Keep us informed. :???:

 

^^ Yeah... when I made the appointment about a week ago I was told that the dealership had not received V.36 CD yet and they didn't know when it was coming. They offered to send the chip to Jersey so I wouldn't have to wait around anymore. It *definitely* sounded like they were aware of the problem AND the fix...

Ho hum. Perhaps I'm being unrealistic in my expectations about the performance, and perhaps I'm being paranoid. We shall see...

For those who have had their ECU's shipped out, was that listed on your work slip? Was the software version listed on your work slip? When I was upgraded to the dastardly V32, THAT was noted... this time, I got nothing. ALL it says is that tech #242 spent 1.00 hours reading fault codes and reprogramming the ECU. Tech #242 is the same tech who performed all the other (nearly $900 worth!!!) warranty work, so I know he's not some guy in Jersey... he's some guy at the dealership...

_________________