The MINI does not have a BMW engine... it has a PRINCE engine, and that's the real problem.

I feel cheated honestly. When the R56 came out I was told "Yes, its a BMW engine" well guess what... it isn't.

 

The engine in your R56 is updated to BMW Mini standards. The original Prince design probably would not be reconised by the person that engineered it.

Mini is not the only car manufacturer that uses the basic design. a lot of cars from the Dodge Neon to a French Citron uses this Prince engine but they are all specked out different for the application they are used for.

It is a very good engine and gets better with every improvement that BMW does to it.

 

Uhhh....oh. I'm getting that awful noise again! I had the whole recommended service (timing chain and tensioner replacement) and now I'm fearful the problem is returning. I'm due soon for servicing so I'll have them check it. I hope I'm wrong, but my gut tells me no!

 

Model:2008 Clubman S
Build Date: June 2008 I think
Miles: 30,500
Duration: 1st five minutes on cold start if outside temp below 40 degrees
Frequency: (times per month/week) 5/week? every cold start
RPM range: Just above idle and on up
Ambient Temp: 40 F
Oil: Castrol 5w30 per BMW spec

Any other relevant information: Tensioner replaced at 8000 miles. problem repeating at 30,500.

 

Model: MCS (R56)
Build Date:1/2008
Miles:34,400
Duration: Initially 1-2 minutes, now > 20 minutes.
Has been ongoing problem since 3/2010
Frequency: Initially was 1-2 times per week
RPM range: idle on up
Ambient Temp: Initially 50 F, currently temp does not matter
Oil: OEM

Any other relevant information: Problem began intermittently in March 2010, dealer unable to duplicate, no check engine lights, no obc codes. Problem became chronic, almost constant. January 2011-Timing chain tensioner finally replaced. Ran better for 4 days, then returned intermittently. Again unable to duplicate at dealer. No lights/ no codes. Became nearly constant again. April, 2011-Timing chain found to be streched, guide rails found shattered into peices that had fallen into oil pan. Chain tensioners, timing chain, and guide rails replaced. Problem returned shortly after and has continued intermittently. Still unable to duplicate at dealer (many visits have been made since- fuel pump failed, water pump...the saga continues).

Recent videos-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YxSBXMtHEk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUWoXwUIyYY

 

^ Thanks for those posts. Yep...I think it's happening again. I've got about 25K miles on my 2009 MCS (bought in November 2008) and they did the whole timing belt, rails, etc replacement. Ugh.

 

Wow your car sounds just like my car... failed fuel pump, leaking water pump, carbon built-up etc..

Model: 2007
Build Date: 8/2007
Miles: 86000
Duration: 5-10 mins
Frequency: All the time until oil is top off
RPM range: 1500-2500
Ambient Temp: 40-60 Degrees (doesn't matter)
Oil: Castrol Synthetic 5w-30

I am not sure if mine is the same "cold start" issue, but it has the exact same sound as the video.. like a very loud diesel engine. I started hearing the sound in the summer this year. It got louder and louder every morning until I thought I would wake up someone when I leave the house at 5am. When I got off the freeway near work, the sound is gone. I took it to the shop and did an oil change and ask them to check it out. After the oil change it just went away... Then about 3 weeks later.. I can hear it coming back.. checked my oil level.. it was low.. added one quart of oil. sound was gone. Another 2 or 3 weeks later... sound started to come back.. check oil level.. sure enough need to add another quart! Took it back to shop and according to them.. Mini said it is normal to burn a quart of oil every 1000 miles. :(

EDIT: Just read some of the other threads. I guess "low oil cold start noise" is not the same issue. I guess I don't have a "cold start" issue with my car.

 

Model: MCCS (R55)
Build Date:1/2009
Miles:8,200
Duration: Intermittent
Has been ongoing problem since 1/15/12
Frequency: Intermittent
RPM range: idle on up
Oil: OEM

Bought my Clubbie with 7850 miles. Service history and carfax were all good. Started it up one morning after two days of sitting and got a horrid noise. drove it for about 20 minutes and noise went away. Added 1 quart of OEM oil and its been good. Still hear a rattle every now and then so its at the dealer, but they cannot replicate rattle. GREAT! I will pick up today if they cannot duplicate the sound. I have a year till warranty is up. Hopefully all is good or something happens within a year. AARRGGHH!!

 

If your car has one of the older timing chain tensioner pistons, the morning "death rattle" can usually be induced by parking the vehicle for 6+ hours in a nose-down attitude. Tilting the engine seems to facilitate oil draining from the tensioner piston, causing it's collapse back to a fully retracted position. It takes about 2 minutes of engine run time to fully bleed air from the faulty tensioner piston, during which time the loose timing chain is busily tearing up the chain guides. Ambient temperature has nothing to do with this fault per se.

On a related note, the Portland OR MINI service advisors strongly encourage owners to never let the oil level drop below the MIN marking. The vacuum pump (that round silver thingie on the left (rear) of the cylinder head) has engine oil-lubed bearings, and will seize causing camshaft shearing at the other pulley end, dropping the timing chain into the engine casing, and subsequent engine catastrophic failure. The SAs said that the vacuum pump is the first part to suffer from oil starvation.

 

Thanks oldMGguy,
Got a call from SA that they could not replicate the sound, so I went to pick it up. When I started it, the rattle was there! I immediately called the SA outside to hear it and he called the tech that worked on my Clubbie. Oh, first when I started it and we were all listening to it another salesman was jsut about to take someone on a test drive says out loud "thats the way they all sound for about a minute or two right?" I swear I wanted to jump of his freakin throat! Anyway, by the time the tech got there there was no rattle, the oil had pumped its way through and there was only a faint noise every once in a while. Funny how they could not replicate the rattle, but I start it to pick it up and there it is. Oh BTW this was at MINI of Concord in California. I am going to try another dealer in the Sacramento area after I park it nose down and run some test. Unbelievable incompetence and stupid remarks from a salesman!!

 

I posted this to to to the Colorado 5280 Mini Club. At the end I post the latest problems I'm having after only 533 miles since the last timing chain replacement.

My timing chain tensioner failed 6/5/08 at 20K miles. I had owned the car for about 15 months then. Everything was replaced at that time. It never made any noise until it completely failed. I came to a stop and I could hear the 'bag of rocks' sound and a loud whiring as the chain rubbed on the case. If I held the rpms to about 3,000 everything quieted down due to centrifical force.

Shortly after it was replaced I began to have the 'death rattle' on start up infrequently with no pattern of events, i.e. temperature, amount of time sitting, etc. This had never occurred pre-replacement. I complained about it and had it noted at each regular service that I bought it in for and I brought it in at least twice specifically to have only this problem looked at. I was told it was 'normal' noise. Then they once did the rev it up and bleed the tensioner proceedure and said that should take care of it. I left it at the dealer for several days and they started it up each day and said they could not replicate the noise. They never did the proceedure to measure the length of the chain too see if it had stretched out of spec.

So what they should realize is that they have been terribly insulting to their customers:

1) It's a normal noise = "We think that you are an idiot (at least mechanically)"

2) We can't replicate the noise= " You are an idiot or you are lying to us"

3) They to me this time now that the warranty has expired: " Yes we did hear the noise when we started it up and it does sound like the tensioner/chain". I to them: "See what I mean the occurence is totally random. It was quiet as it could be when I dropped it off." They: "really!" = You are an idiot. Why would you DRIVE it here with the engine hammering away like that! (I guess now I'm lying about it NOT making noise rather that lying about it making noise.)

The dealer had not called me by 4:30 today so I called them. I talked to the service adviser and he said it was the tensioner, chain, etc., etc, and it would cost $1,550 to fix. He said that he had sent information to MINI to see if they would help with it. I told him that Mini had better cover ALL of it and reminded him it had been replaced once and that I had complained about it since 2008. He said he'd let me know tomorrow.

At any point the chain could have broken or jumped timing and then I'd be looking at a new engine.

Knowing what I know now and being in your shoes I would:

1) Complain my head off until they replace the tensioner/chain then sell or trade the car.

2) Or, sell or trade the car now without the fix if your conscience will let you.

3) If you still need to own a Mini then you need to trade it and always keep the new one in warranty. These things are too fragile and expensive to fix to be out of warranty. Of course if you do this you need to resign yourself to higher sales and ownership taxes, depreciation, and insurance costs and feel that owning a Mini is worth it.

I like my Mini, but I keep a new car 8 to 10 years and they are always in very good condition then and I have no problem quickly selling them. It is clearly not cost effective to keep a MINI once the warranty is over.

I thought my saga was over after the dealer finally replacing the timing chain, tensioner, guides, etc. after waiting for a service appt. for a week and then it being in the shop for almost another 3 weeks. I got the car back on December 29th. I purposely haven’t driven it much since I really just don’t have any faith in it anymore. I’ve bought a new car and I was just waiting for the weather to get better to sell the Mini. I’ve put all of 533 miles on it in the last month and a half.

Well, unfortunately, I put at least one too many miles on it since coming home tonight with the Mini fully warmed up and accelerating away from a stop the Mini made kind of a muffled pop, not really very loud, lost all power and would not restart. There was a big puddle of oil under the engine on the timing chain side. My guess is that something let lose in the timing chain for the third time! If this is the case then judging from the way it let lose this time (no rattling, but a pop and sudden failure) it would appear likely the engine is toast.

It gave me no comfort that the tow truck driver who picked it up knew right where the dealer is located, the mileage to the dealership without looking up, and where the key drop is located at the dealer. I mean, how damn many towing companies are there in the Denver Metro area and how many tow truck drivers are there coming and going? Apparently they haul a lot of Minis in.

Between Mini USA and the dealer they covered 70% of the repairs last time as ‘good will’ including the replacement of the turbo oil lines. Apparently there are lots of problems with the cooler lines coking up from oil cooking in them and the flow of oil being cut off, thus destroying the turbo. My lines were leaking. Lines and labor run about $900!!! Apparently Mini has designed lines so that you have to about take the car apart to replace them. I believe that Mini must have some kind of silent recall out on these. It is interesting to note that at some point Mini put a small heat shield on one of the lines. Way has them for sale for about $5. It’s interesting that the dealer did not install this shield on mine. If I had any intentions of keeping my Mini I’d get one from Way. Also I think that changing the oil more often than the service reminder prompts that there is less chance of the oil lines plugging up. I do mine at about 7K miles, but if I was keeping the car I’d drop down to 5K as cheap insurance.

I should have traded the Mini when I bought my new car, but I have never traded in a car before. My cars are always well cared for, in great condition, and look great and I usually sell them to the first person who looks at them. Now I don’t know if I can feel good about ‘unloading’ this car on someone.

Mini had better pay for 100% of the repairs this time. If that entails a new engine then I’ll be OK with selling it to someone else.

My conclusion and advice is that as Minis age they become as durable as potato chips and the only way to own one if you have to have one (and I don’t) is to keep them in warranty and just bite the bullet on eating the depreciation.

I’ll let you know how this mess turns out. If it doesn’t go well you’ll be able to hear about it on Tom Martino’s show!

 

Hello all,

It's been a couple years since I last posted as Mini bought back my 2008 Cooper S. I really do miss that car and have been wondering if Mini has fixed the timing chain issues and if so what was the fix and on what year Mini's was the fix on?

Mdun6.

 

Just read through some of the threads, no fix, still affecting cars as new 2012.

 

I posted this to to to the Colorado 5280 Mini Club. At the end I post the latest problems I'm having after only 533 miles since the last timing chain replacement.

My timing chain tensioner failed 6/5/08 at 20K miles. I had owned the car for about 15 months then. Everything was replaced at that time. It never made any noise until it completely failed. I came to a stop and I could hear the 'bag of rocks' sound and a loud whiring as the chain rubbed on the case. If I held the rpms to about 3,000 everything quieted down due to centrifical force.

Shortly after it was replaced I began to have the 'death rattle' on start up infrequently with no pattern of events, i.e. temperature, amount of time sitting, etc. This had never occurred pre-replacement. I complained about it and had it noted at each regular service that I bought it in for and I brought it in at least twice specifically to have only this problem looked at. I was told it was 'normal' noise. Then they once did the rev it up and bleed the tensioner proceedure and said that should take care of it. I left it at the dealer for several days and they started it up each day and said they could not replicate the noise. They never did the proceedure to measure the length of the chain too see if it had stretched out of spec.

So what they should realize is that they have been terribly insulting to their customers:

1) It's a normal noise = "We think that you are an idiot (at least mechanically)"

2) We can't replicate the noise= " You are an idiot or you are lying to us"

3) They to me this time now that the warranty has expired: " Yes we did hear the noise when we started it up and it does sound like the tensioner/chain". I to them: "See what I mean the occurence is totally random. It was quiet as it could be when I dropped it off." They: "really!" = You are an idiot. Why would you DRIVE it here with the engine hammering away like that! (I guess now I'm lying about it NOT making noise rather that lying about it making noise.)

The dealer had not called me by 4:30 today so I called them. I talked to the service adviser and he said it was the tensioner, chain, etc., etc, and it would cost $1,550 to fix. He said that he had sent information to MINI to see if they would help with it. I told him that Mini had better cover ALL of it and reminded him it had been replaced once and that I had complained about it since 2008. He said he'd let me know tomorrow.

At any point the chain could have broken or jumped timing and then I'd be looking at a new engine.

Knowing what I know now and being in your shoes I would:

1) Complain my head off until they replace the tensioner/chain then sell or trade the car.

2) Or, sell or trade the car now without the fix if your conscience will let you.

3) If you still need to own a Mini then you need to trade it and always keep the new one in warranty. These things are too fragile and expensive to fix to be out of warranty. Of course if you do this you need to resign yourself to higher sales and ownership taxes, depreciation, and insurance costs and feel that owning a Mini is worth it.

I like my Mini, but I keep a new car 8 to 10 years and they are always in very good condition then and I have no problem quickly selling them. It is clearly not cost effective to keep a MINI once the warranty is over.

I thought my saga was over after the dealer finally replacing the timing chain, tensioner, guides, etc. after waiting for a service appt. for a week and then it being in the shop for almost another 3 weeks. I got the car back on December 29th. I purposely haven’t driven it much since I really just don’t have any faith in it anymore. I’ve bought a new car and I was just waiting for the weather to get better to sell the Mini. I’ve put all of 533 miles on it in the last month and a half.

Well, unfortunately, I put at least one too many miles on it since coming home tonight with the Mini fully warmed up and accelerating away from a stop the Mini made kind of a muffled pop, not really very loud, lost all power and would not restart. There was a big puddle of oil under the engine on the timing chain side. My guess is that something let lose in the timing chain for the third time! If this is the case then judging from the way it let lose this time (no rattling, but a pop and sudden failure) it would appear likely the engine is toast.

It gave me no comfort that the tow truck driver who picked it up knew right where the dealer is located, the mileage to the dealership without looking up, and where the key drop is located at the dealer. I mean, how damn many towing companies are there in the Denver Metro area and how many tow truck drivers are there coming and going? Apparently they haul a lot of Minis in.

Between Mini USA and the dealer they covered 70% of the repairs last time as ‘good will’ including the replacement of the turbo oil lines. Apparently there are lots of problems with the cooler lines coking up from oil cooking in them and the flow of oil being cut off, thus destroying the turbo. My lines were leaking. Lines and labor run about $900!!! Apparently Mini has designed lines so that you have to about take the car apart to replace them. I believe that Mini must have some kind of silent recall out on these. It is interesting to note that at some point Mini put a small heat shield on one of the lines. Way has them for sale for about $5. It’s interesting that the dealer did not install this shield on mine. If I had any intentions of keeping my Mini I’d get one from Way. Also I think that changing the oil more often than the service reminder prompts that there is less chance of the oil lines plugging up. I do mine at about 7K miles, but if I was keeping the car I’d drop down to 5K as cheap insurance.

I should have traded the Mini when I bought my new car, but I have never traded in a car before. My cars are always well cared for, in great condition, and look great and I usually sell them to the first person who looks at them. Now I don’t know if I can feel good about ‘unloading’ this car on someone.

Mini had better pay for 100% of the repairs this time. If that entails a new engine then I’ll be OK with selling it to someone else.

My conclusion and advice is that as Minis age they become as durable as potato chips and the only way to own one if you have to have one (and I don’t) is to keep them in warranty and just bite the bullet on eating the depreciation.

I’ll let you know how this mess turns out. If it doesn’t go well you’ll be able to hear about it on Tom Martino’s show![/QUOTE]

 

The dealer in Sacramento covered the replacements for the timing chain and tensioner as goodwill since I have been complaining about it two weeks after Mini delivered the car in Sept.'07. However, they detected that the oil line and the water pump needed to be replaced, but will not cover those expenses. I just hope that the our government agency investigates these issue and force Mini to recall the cars for safety reasons.

 

Sundevil,

There was a recall announced about a month ago for water pumps. Apparently there is some electronic glitch that keeps the pump running long after shut down and it has caused some cars to start on fire. I heard the announcement on the news and have recieved no notice from Mini, but I did confirm it with my dealer. The dealer said it "would be some time" until Mini produced enough replacement parts and had them out to the dealers. Heck what's a few car fires? Actually my Mini would be doing me a favor by catching on fire!

Also, when the dealer "goodwilled" 70% of the cost of my second tensioner/timing chain replacement they also replaced the turbo cooler oil lines at 70% of cost. They said mine were leaking. There was no oil on the engine and none on the floor of my garage. I don't think they were leaking. I think Mini has a 'secret recall' out on the oil lines. From reading the forums it appears the lines are prone to coke up from the high heat of the turbo and eventually totally choke off the flow of oil. When that happens the turbo of course is destroyed. It appears that the oil is more likely to coke if it is being changed at the extended intervals that the service reminder allows. I think shorter change intervals, say 5K are cheap insurance. Also newer Mini's have a small heat shield on one of the lines. Way Motorworks has them for about $5. The dealer did not put one on mine for some reason. If I was going to keep this lemon I'd put one on.

Unfortunately it appears that it is too late for you to ask the dealer to cover these items for you. However if you get a water pump recall notice I'd go back the dealer and give that one a shot.

The cost of replacing the turbo lines before the 70% discount was about $900, most of it labor - the lines were pretty inexpensive. Did you have that large a bill?

Good luck. We all need it with these lemons.

 

Sundevil,

Here's a link to the water pump recall. It is much more detailed than the news stories I heard. It involves the auxilary pump and not the main pump, which I suspect is the one that gave you problems.

http://www.motoringfile.com/2012/01/...and+Podcast%29

 

Thanks. The service guys in Niello said that the main water pump has a small leak.

I'm thinking of trading the car back to Niello for a 2012 non-turbo Mini Countryman. Is there any issues with this car too?

 

Check out the Countryman forum... As with the Justa (non-turbo), the non-turbo Countryman probably has less problems too.

 

We got the timing chain replaced on my wife's 07 MCS about 3 weeks ago. I started to notice some oil drips on the driveway and bought her car in MINI of Peabody over the weeked. They said there's a leak at the front main seal and it needs to replaced for $475!!

Is this related to timing chain tensioner work they done 3 weeks ago? Is it common for the front main seal to go bad?

 

I've had the dreaded rattle frm the beginning, and it was attempted to be repaired 3 or 4 times before about 2 years ago it went completely away with one of the service bulletins earlier in this thread (I forget the exact details). Well, a few weeks ago, it came back, but this time it was a bit different, a bit louder and more of a real rattle, like a heat shield cover rattle. I brought it in thinking a heat shield was loose or something, and low and behold the timing chain was stretched, and the chain guide was broken. A bunch of stuff needed to be replaced and repaired. They said it was something like $4,200 cause it's out of warranty, and I said I ain't gonna pay it!

Well, couple days later, they called and said Mini was covering it 100%. Bravo that they did. But they had to, I had 4 or 5 years of service issues and reports about the problem.

So now I have a 51k on the car, which is in perfect shape, other than that. Wondering if I should be dumping it before I have more chain issues....?

Anyone want Minibird?

 

My two cents: I get an automatic Justa Cooper as a loaner everytime I have my car serviced at the dealer and I test drove the manual transmission Justas multiple times before I bought my "S" hardtop. I find the non-S model to be so much more ordinary relative to driving an S that I think if I ever get rid of my S I'd be switching car brands completely. I mean, my 2009 MINI Cooper S hardtop has been far from problem free (knock wood, it seems to be pretty "stable" at the moment!) but the damned thing is addictive to drive. It's so peppy and responsive that, for me, switching to a non-S would deprive the car of why I purchased it initially. Please note: *THIS IS MY OPINION, AND ONLY MY OPINION! It's just my personal taste and I do not mean or intend to insult anyone who owns a base model MINI. All I'm trying to say is that the base and S model MINIs have dramatic differences between them. I think other car brands' model/trim lines differ in more minor ways than MINIs do.

 

Birdman - thanks for the update! Like you, my '07 MCS has undergone every timing chain tensioner fix (except for the latest revised revised tensioner unit) that BMW has come up with - all under warranty. It's been 3 years since the last tensioner and chain replacement (the engine is on it's third chain), but the chain rattle is beginning to re-occur at random intervals. With 66,000 miles on the clock, I'm really happy to hear the good news that BMW is picking up the tab!

Other than the chain tensioner issue, my MCS has been flawless so far.

 

Is it official that MINI is picking up the tab ? Just started hearing occasional rattle on my 07 MCS at 44K miles...

 

Hasn't been a post in here in a while but I'm looking at a 2007 Cooper S with 178,000kms (a little over 110,000 miles). 6 speed, leather interior etc for a good price. Now the issue it has is the idle on a cold start. It sounds rough and idles between 300-600rpm for about 2 minutes and then it idles around 1k after that. Is this something that will be an expensive fix and what are the possiblities. I've read carbon build up, fuel pump but what could those cost so I can use this to lower the asking price.