Thanks for the tip!

But I also read in this thread that what you are talking about ONLY happens with POST 12/2002 builds. My r53 was built in 10/2002, which means my power steering fan should ONLY come on when the HIGH SPEED ECF is activated, correct?

 

My fan went out on my 04' recently or at least i think so... Checked relays and all seem good and also the 12v signal at the 3 wire fan plug. I am assuming the fan is toast and its not just the resistor as I connected 12v 10a to the fan with my power supply and got nothing. Is fan total failure common?

Thanks
LP

 

Not really. Usually it is stuck relays or open resisters.

Rich

 

I received my MINI in June of 2002. No problems. But, last week the fan ran with the engine off. Pulled the fuse, waited a couple of days, and now the fan turns off with the engine.

Reviewed these threads I am concerned that the fan system is not working correctly. So today I started the engine, ran it for 30 mins, and the temperture gauge stayed at midpoint, but no fan action. I then turned on the AC and the fan came on. At first the fan cycled, but then ran longer. Turned AC off, fan stopped and didn't come on.

I have a feeling that I need to replace the fan assembly. Given that the problem is the relay and the relay is part of the assembly, have no real choice.

Please advise, and with best regards.

 

Don't know if you really have a "problem", per se, based on your statement.

The electric fan doesn't necessarily turn on while the engine is running - it's a completely coolant temp-oriented thing. You could be driving down the road (A/C off) and the fan may not be running at all, probably shouldn't be running depending on ambient temperature.

Conversely, the fan won't necessarily turn off when the engine is turned off - again, the coolant temp will dictate fan operation (I don't remember what the two temps are that run the fan at low- and high-speeds but the info is on the NAM website here and there). If the engine coolant is still hot enough, the fan will continue to run after shutting off the engine until that temp number drops. Depending on how long the fan runs after shutting off the engine, you may have a problem.

Also, in a perfect system, the low-speed fan will come on (and stay on) when you turn on the A/C - always. If the fan does not come on (low-speed) when you turn on the A/C, but then comes on at high-speed after a few minutes (you'll know it's on high - very loud), those are the symptoms of a burned-out resistor.

Sounds like you're just dyin' to take the front end off of your Mini!

 

Thank you for your help, but I see that I need to add more information.

First, I noticed is that the fan did not turn off with the engine stopped, even after two hours. Thus, pulled the fuse to save the battery.

Second, when I "ran" the MINI S, it was in my garage, with temperature at about 80F. I even ran a fast idle, 2500 rpm, for a few mins, and the highest the temperature guage would climb is midway, with no fan.

Third, from the very first day of driving the temperature gauge has climbed no higher than midway.

Fourth, the fan, when it does come on is, what I think, loud. For it makes a whirling noise and can be heard even with the windows up. Thus, how "loud" is the low fan compared to the "high" fan?

Fifth, the primary problem is what causes the fan to run for hours with the engine off? If a new fan assembly is needed, then I have no choice but to replace.

Sixth, and most important, thank you and everyone for the ton of information within these threads.

I value these threads, for I submitted a thread of how the local oil shop had stripped out the engine oil drain plug. NAPA has a part number for an oversize metric thread pitch size oil drain plug that resizes the drain hole, thus only taking a few mins to fix.

 

Okay, good info.

Sounds like you do have the dreaded resistor problem and if so, you'll be either changing out the fan assembly or doing the external resistor fix mentioned earlier in this thread.

The run-on problem sounds like another, unrelated thing. You have an earlier model Mini so I'm not sure where exactly the high- and low-speed fan relays are located. If you can find it/them, you can unplug it to kill the fan power and, depending on how those systems are wired, you may find you have a simple relay (stuck closed) problem. I would try to fix this problem before digging into the fan assembly repair.

 

I saw CooperSml's video on how to test the resistor on the updated fan. Does anybody know how to test it on the older, 2 connector type fan?
And by that I mean do a resistance measurement somewhere and not something like "check to see if it turns on".

Thanks.

 

Can you send me pictures of the fuse/relay box in the engine bay, open the box take a picture and look in the inside portion of the box it will have the symbol of each relay tak a picture of that too.

Take a picture of the two connectors and observe how many wires on each connector, disconnect both connectors and send me a picture of both connectors showing the pins of the ventilator side.

Lets see what we can figure it out.

 

I have another video with a simple tool you can be build to test if relays are operated or not. On this case you can eliminate the relay itself or the ECU being operating or not a relay.

http://youtu.be/OgtbOD_DCME

 

cooperSml,

Here ya go.

https://picasaweb.google.com/1010675...Le36a3S7fvx4gE

Basically what we have is one large connector with 3 wires, one is brown and the other two are red/blue. The smaller connector has 2 wires. One brown and another greenish one.

I tested resistance between wires on the larger connector and I got 1 ohm between the brown and the one beside it and no resistance between the brown and the one diagonal to it. (see pic).

Thanks for your help.

L.

 

Using the terminology in the links, on the 3 wire connector:
open circuit ohm between stage 2 and ground
but ...
if you put + 12 volts and ground (with correct polarity) to the 2-wire
connector that goes to the relay, then there will now be between 0.3 and 0.6 ohm
between stage 2 and ground on the 3 wire connector.

0.6 - 1 ohm between stage 1 and ground (or open if the resistor is blown).

In other words, with the early two connector fan assemblies, the stage 1 (thinner red wire of the 3 wire connector - low speed) goes to the resistor then to the fan,
and the stage 2 (thicker red wire of the 3 wire connector - high speed circuit) goes through the relay (if energized and open) directly to the fan bypassing the resistor.

 

I just checked my PS fan to see if it was on when I turned the A/C on. The PS fan did not come on. Is this what is suppose to happen? Or is the fan toast or do I need to check the ohm values? I have a 2006 MCS with 46.8K miles. 12:10pm: Just checked fuse labeled #40-5amp (blog stated fuse #41-5amp) and found blown. Replaced fuse and fan works. Fan was binding up when first checked and by turning it many times it freed up. I am not sure how long it will last but saved lots of $$$$ for now.

 

Cristo is 100% correct, what you just measured is your first stage resistor plus motor that will be around 1.1 ohms. If you just wanted to know if your fan is good I probably can say yes.

Is there a problem in the fan stages, or you trying to make sure it is working?

 

My engine bay has always been very hot. No surprise to long time Mini owners there, but it's definitely the hottest car I've owned (in many ways ). In the last month I installed an M7 cool thermostat, and a header which I heat wrapped. These two mods helped A LOT.

I was just browsing and I found this thread which fed my hot engine bay paranoia...
Anyway, I just now decided to spend some time observing the fan in my garage and after a while of having the car on and the fan still, I decided to turn on the A/C and the fan did turn on. I turned the A/C off and the fan remained on. Waited some time and it stayed on at the same speed. So I got back in the car, turned the A/C back on and rev'd it for a while and then... high speed came in.

So in short, I was able to determine that my fan does indeed work at low speed and high speed.

Thanks for your help guys.

 

Good we are going to have piece of mind. On my 06 I had problem with 1st stage, ac clutch, after done all that I decided to build my small ectronic circuit to monitor when 1, 2 and clutch has energy through some LEDs. Now I can see what is really on or should br on. That was my own paranoia, but I had some expenses before paranoia.

But I like my Mini a lot.

 

My 03 MCS has my mechanic scratching his head. Was displaying the problem discussed in this thread - cooling fan running on high for several minutes after turning off the ignition, even at normal engine temps. Mechanic told me about the resistor problem and replaced the cooling fan.

Took the car and the cooling fan still came on when not necessary. Went back to mechanic who replaced the engine coolant temperature sensor. Picked up the car and whaddya know - cooling fan still comes on after driving the car!

Any thoughts? My mechanic is baffled. Need to run the car for at least 20 minutes to activate the high-speed fan after turning off the ignition. The cooling fan comes on less often now than before, but still more than necessary. Could there be a problem with the power steering fan that is triggering the radiator cooling fan?

I'd appreciate any leads.

- Rich

 

Rich,

The cooling fan first stage it is like a base if we put in words provide a constant regulation and 2nd stage is for peak. Imagining when car running fan first stage running it is keeping temp at 110F so at peaks of 123F car stopped, acceleration it quickly brings the temperature to the regulation zone.

The ECU control teh FANs not the other way around and it does by temperature and if AC is on it already will activate 1st stage and power steering fan. PS fan and 1st FAN have different relays but they are controlled by ECU through same output. What that means when ECU gives to command to operate 1st stage fan and PS fan will come on as well.

By what you are descibing looks like you still don't have FAN first stage. Now you need to think in a failure mode. If ECU commands first stage for ECU the FAN is on (but in reality it is not), it will feel the raise in temperature and activate second stage to regulate, what happens if the temperature always very close to the threshold of second stage, because ECU thinks 1st is on but there is no action. Because you are operating on this raised temp explain why the FAN 2nd stage come on sometimes after you trun off. Remember temperature has inercia, if it was raising even though you turn the car off it will raise a little and 2nd stage will come on.

If he replace the fan I advise you to measure the voltage on the pin of first stage when car running and AC on, so we know it should be activate the fan 1 st stage. How you do it? Car turned off disconnect the 3 pin connector, turn car on and activate AC measure voltage against ground it should be 12 Volts. Or easier replace relay 1st stage on the fuse box and give another try.

I hope this help.

 

Although I haven't had a chance to measure the voltage directly, I do know that the first stage cooling fan is operational. If I turn on the AC, the fan will spin up within 30 seconds. Turn the AC off and it powers back down. First stage is there at least part of the time.

- Rich

 

Rich,

My next steps then was going to be check the water pump, considering FAN replaced 1st, 2nd stage FAN working and Coolant was flushed. It got be with something with the efficiency of the cooling now. I was going for water pump, second for the freon pressure.

Murilo

 

Another option to keep the hi-speed fan from turning on when engine off is to run a kill switch on that single live line to the fan when key is off the ignition. Run this switch line thru a separate relay. This gives you the manual option & peace of mind knowing you won't be coming back to a car w/ drained battery.

 

Since the mcaw sites no longer exist for wiring schematics, they can be found here now:
http://www.bmw-planet.com/diagrams/r.../r50/index.htm
look under complete vehicle/drive/engine cooling/electric fan two stage/ -(for appropriate year)
http://www.bmw-planet.com/diagrams/r.../r50/index.htm

you might have to install a plug-in to make it work.

 

those things are hard to read! I'm no electrical engineer, but I think I MAY have figured it out. I've got a May '02 build, so I'm a bit different than most of the comments here.

Anyone know how to find out what kinds of relays these are? I mean, the schematic mentions relay I01152 and I01135 for mine, but I don't know how to find anything on those.

 

i have a 2002 r50 and from reading all the posts, have the same problem as a lot of other people.
here's my problem, with the ac on the coolant fan runs at low speed but the ps pump fan doesn't, i hooked up the ps pump fan to 12v and it runs fine, also i have removed the ps pump and taken off the pump side of it so it's just an electric motor, i put a multi-meter accross the 2 main terminals and have resistance so i spun the motor by hand and got a voltage change.
does this mean the pump is ok
can i hook up the motor to 12v direct without burning it out because there's no load
are there any other control circuits that determine whether or not the fan/pump runs, eg thermostats
i have a 2 pin plug that comes from the coolant fan (which has no voltage when the low speed fan is on) but also a 3 pin plug that i have no idea of its origins
i have been at this for some weeks now and i am at a point where i was just going to buy all parts neccesary to fix it (pump and both fans) but i'm still not sure if this will fix the problem.
also i read here somewhere that the pump has a cut out to protect itself, is this true? how do i locate/reset this cutout
any help/answers are greatly appreiciated
Martin

 

So in short,

I will have to re wire the THIN red wire (05 mcs) right before the fan connector
With a new resistor (listed in this thread) + heat sink ?

I am on my second fan assembly and I believe its shot again.