Stumble - tired of waiting!!!!
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2nd Gear
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 83
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From: Portsmouth, RI
Thought that I'd let my fellow stumble suffers read my lemon law letter to MINI. I sent a copy out to them today. I encourage all of you to read your state lemon law statutes because you may be running out of time to get your MINIs fixed/replaced/repurchased.
Todd J. Tetreault
20 October 2003
MINI of North America
MINI Division
Customer Relations
P.O. Box 1227
Westwood, NJ 07675
Dear Customer Relations;
I am writing to express my intention to file complaint under New York State’s Motor Vehicle Lemon Law.
I am a military service member, who is a resident of NY State, but am currently serving in Washington State.
I took delivery of my New MINI on February 27, 2003, from Towne MINI of Buffalo, NY. I have been receiving service from NW MINI in Fife, WA.
Shortly after taking delivery of the car, I noticed a minor “stumble” upon clutch engagement during first gear. The stumble has gotten progressively worse since that time. If I do not enter first gear at anything other than a “crawl,” the stumble is “neck-snapping.” I feel that this issue presents a safety problem because I cannot quickly merge with traffic (from a stop) and must allow an unreasonable distance (break in cross-traffic) to leave intersections. If I attempt to override the “stumble” with a heavy push on the gas pedal, the car will “bog” down, acting as though the dynamic stability control has cut fuel to the engine – leaving me in the middle of intersections – hoping that I can get out of the way of oncoming traffic.
In addition to the “stumble,” the car also suffers from a severe “yo-yo” affect. When the car is traveling at a low-to-moderate speed with a constant accelerator input, it will “buck” like it has a clogged fuel filter and the engine is not getting a steady flow of fuel. I have noticed that the most extreme expression of the “yo-yo” occurs at 20 mph – at 2,000 rpm in second gear (the speed that I have to drive on military installations) and at 35-40 miles an hour around 2,000 to 3,200 rpm – in 3rd or 4th gear (the average speed limit around the island that I live on). The yo-yo also likes to show up when I travel down the steep (~5%) hill that leads to my workplace.
Finally, the car enjoys a healthy cold-start problem. On mornings where the ambient temperature drops below 40°F, as it likes to do in the NW during the fall and winter, I must make as many as 6 attempts to start the car before the engine catches. This is not something one should expect of a brand new, $30,000 vehicle.
I have been in touch with the service manager at NW MINI since 09 July 2003 and have been calling every 2-3 weeks to check on software releases. I have been able to get little information other than, “ the fix is not out yet – but it soon will be.” I have received similar platitudes from 1-866-ASK-MINI. The service manager at NW MINI has been kind and attentive, but I feel that he cannot help me because he has been given NO help/information from MINI USA.
I had thought that I was in the minority, with a problem MINI, but in searching for others that share these issues, I turned to MINI Cooper Online – an independent group of enthusiasts. I was surprised at the sheer number of fellow sufferers.
I feel as though MINI is making a concerted effort to not have to repair these cars (perhaps due to a cost-benefit ratio analysis?). If repairs are “strung-out” long enough, many of my fellow early owners will be past the express protection period of their state lemon laws and will be unable to gain satisfaction without a significant financial outlay; MINI will save profit. I am beginning to think that there may be more at stake than a software fix: MINI has released 5 software upgrades since the purchase of my car and none fix these issues, the problems seem to have been common knowledge since mid-to-late 2002, the new 7-series BMWs received very quick and public attention when a similar problem occurred, and MINI has been very quiet about making any public statement. Could this be a software and mechanical issue? Could such a thought explain why the 5 software fixes have not solved the issues, why those putting aftermarket hardware on their vehicles seem to be experiencing some relief, and explain why BMW AG is developing a new engine in conjunction with Peugeot?
The New York Lemon Law Statute states that I must attempt to get my problems fixed 4 times in the first 2 years of ownership. I have tried 3 times thus far and am notifying you in writing that I am making my fourth attempt. As things stand now, MINI’s inability to fix this continuing problem with my MINI constitutes a “condition that significantly affects the value of my motor vehicle (wording of the NYS statute).”
I do not have the choice of driving a second vehicle because my MINI is my primary mode of transport. I would be happy to work with MINI to have this problem fixed, but should the situation continue as it is - with no honest effort on MINI’s part, I intend to ask that MINI USA be forced to repurchase my vehicle.
MINI sells itself as a different kind of car - offering a different kind of experience. You missed an opportunity to be “different” when you chose not to be "up-front" with me.
Sincerely,
Todd J. Tetreault
_________________
BRG/B 2K3 MCS: premium, sports, cold, nav, rsws, H/K, aerokit, Whalen Shift **** & alarm...
Todd J. Tetreault
20 October 2003
MINI of North America
MINI Division
Customer Relations
P.O. Box 1227
Westwood, NJ 07675
Dear Customer Relations;
I am writing to express my intention to file complaint under New York State’s Motor Vehicle Lemon Law.
I am a military service member, who is a resident of NY State, but am currently serving in Washington State.
I took delivery of my New MINI on February 27, 2003, from Towne MINI of Buffalo, NY. I have been receiving service from NW MINI in Fife, WA.
Shortly after taking delivery of the car, I noticed a minor “stumble” upon clutch engagement during first gear. The stumble has gotten progressively worse since that time. If I do not enter first gear at anything other than a “crawl,” the stumble is “neck-snapping.” I feel that this issue presents a safety problem because I cannot quickly merge with traffic (from a stop) and must allow an unreasonable distance (break in cross-traffic) to leave intersections. If I attempt to override the “stumble” with a heavy push on the gas pedal, the car will “bog” down, acting as though the dynamic stability control has cut fuel to the engine – leaving me in the middle of intersections – hoping that I can get out of the way of oncoming traffic.
In addition to the “stumble,” the car also suffers from a severe “yo-yo” affect. When the car is traveling at a low-to-moderate speed with a constant accelerator input, it will “buck” like it has a clogged fuel filter and the engine is not getting a steady flow of fuel. I have noticed that the most extreme expression of the “yo-yo” occurs at 20 mph – at 2,000 rpm in second gear (the speed that I have to drive on military installations) and at 35-40 miles an hour around 2,000 to 3,200 rpm – in 3rd or 4th gear (the average speed limit around the island that I live on). The yo-yo also likes to show up when I travel down the steep (~5%) hill that leads to my workplace.
Finally, the car enjoys a healthy cold-start problem. On mornings where the ambient temperature drops below 40°F, as it likes to do in the NW during the fall and winter, I must make as many as 6 attempts to start the car before the engine catches. This is not something one should expect of a brand new, $30,000 vehicle.
I have been in touch with the service manager at NW MINI since 09 July 2003 and have been calling every 2-3 weeks to check on software releases. I have been able to get little information other than, “ the fix is not out yet – but it soon will be.” I have received similar platitudes from 1-866-ASK-MINI. The service manager at NW MINI has been kind and attentive, but I feel that he cannot help me because he has been given NO help/information from MINI USA.
I had thought that I was in the minority, with a problem MINI, but in searching for others that share these issues, I turned to MINI Cooper Online – an independent group of enthusiasts. I was surprised at the sheer number of fellow sufferers.
I feel as though MINI is making a concerted effort to not have to repair these cars (perhaps due to a cost-benefit ratio analysis?). If repairs are “strung-out” long enough, many of my fellow early owners will be past the express protection period of their state lemon laws and will be unable to gain satisfaction without a significant financial outlay; MINI will save profit. I am beginning to think that there may be more at stake than a software fix: MINI has released 5 software upgrades since the purchase of my car and none fix these issues, the problems seem to have been common knowledge since mid-to-late 2002, the new 7-series BMWs received very quick and public attention when a similar problem occurred, and MINI has been very quiet about making any public statement. Could this be a software and mechanical issue? Could such a thought explain why the 5 software fixes have not solved the issues, why those putting aftermarket hardware on their vehicles seem to be experiencing some relief, and explain why BMW AG is developing a new engine in conjunction with Peugeot?
The New York Lemon Law Statute states that I must attempt to get my problems fixed 4 times in the first 2 years of ownership. I have tried 3 times thus far and am notifying you in writing that I am making my fourth attempt. As things stand now, MINI’s inability to fix this continuing problem with my MINI constitutes a “condition that significantly affects the value of my motor vehicle (wording of the NYS statute).”
I do not have the choice of driving a second vehicle because my MINI is my primary mode of transport. I would be happy to work with MINI to have this problem fixed, but should the situation continue as it is - with no honest effort on MINI’s part, I intend to ask that MINI USA be forced to repurchase my vehicle.
MINI sells itself as a different kind of car - offering a different kind of experience. You missed an opportunity to be “different” when you chose not to be "up-front" with me.
Sincerely,
Todd J. Tetreault
_________________
BRG/B 2K3 MCS: premium, sports, cold, nav, rsws, H/K, aerokit, Whalen Shift **** & alarm...
3rd Gear
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 272
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From: madtown, wi
RE: Dear Customer Relations;
Todd J. Tetreault
Todd J. Tetreault
I'm sorry to see it's come to this for you. No one [well, speaking for myself I suppose] wants to belong to an ownership group, wherein the manufacturer doesn't actively attempt to give a g.damn about their supporters.
MINI needs to be more pro-active here for folks with more "Stumble" and "Yo-Yo" stressed MINIs.
Q: Did you attempt to rectify this situation both in NY & WA via MINI Service?
Please keep us informed of MINI USA's response to your efforts.
Thread Starter
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2nd Gear
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 83
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From: Portsmouth, RI
Picked up the MINI while home in NY on leave - easier to NY register and plate the vehicle there if you buy in-state...tax forms can be a pain. Since I drove back to WA after only a week of ownership, the problems had not fully developed and I was not able to deal with my NY dealer (~3000 miles is a bit far for service).
Luckily, NY's lemon law says that I only have to deal with the manufacturer, its agents, or its authorized dealers - so I'm not forced to have to go back to Buffalo to attempt to get satisfaction.
I'd be happy if MINI would say publicly, "Yes, we know there are problems, we promise we'll fix it, and we'll extend the warrantees on all early cars until we fix these issues (like the precedent set for M3 engines of recent vintage)."
I'd like to see all my fellow stumble sufferers get helped. MINI needs to show some integrity here...so far they haven't. Because they haven't, I feel that I'm being backed into a position where I need to proactively protect myself.
_________________
BRG/B 2K3 MCS: premium, sports, cold, nav, rsws, H/K, aerokit, Whalen Shift **** & alarm...
Luckily, NY's lemon law says that I only have to deal with the manufacturer, its agents, or its authorized dealers - so I'm not forced to have to go back to Buffalo to attempt to get satisfaction.
I'd be happy if MINI would say publicly, "Yes, we know there are problems, we promise we'll fix it, and we'll extend the warrantees on all early cars until we fix these issues (like the precedent set for M3 engines of recent vintage)."
I'd like to see all my fellow stumble sufferers get helped. MINI needs to show some integrity here...so far they haven't. Because they haven't, I feel that I'm being backed into a position where I need to proactively protect myself.
_________________
BRG/B 2K3 MCS: premium, sports, cold, nav, rsws, H/K, aerokit, Whalen Shift **** & alarm...
4th Gear
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 336
Likes: 0
From: California
Todd,
Great letter. I am in the exact same boat as you but I haven't started lemon law proceedings mainly because I don't want them to have to buy it back. I just want it fixed! Not only that but I've done too many mods on it and I'm sure they'd be able to get out of 'buy back' due to that.
As good as your letter is, stand by to get flamed by quite a few on here. It happens every time.
Good luck.
Ken
Great letter. I am in the exact same boat as you but I haven't started lemon law proceedings mainly because I don't want them to have to buy it back. I just want it fixed! Not only that but I've done too many mods on it and I'm sure they'd be able to get out of 'buy back' due to that.
As good as your letter is, stand by to get flamed by quite a few on here. It happens every time.
Good luck.
Ken
2nd Gear
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 147
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From: Ft.Lauderdale
Minimoto,
Fear not - you are one of perhaps thousands of owners with these inexcuseable problems - Take them to task on it - BMW have not been forthright in their dealings with these issues.
We gave them our honest money and they sold us dodgy cars.
_________________
'03 S DS
Fear not - you are one of perhaps thousands of owners with these inexcuseable problems - Take them to task on it - BMW have not been forthright in their dealings with these issues.
We gave them our honest money and they sold us dodgy cars.
_________________
'03 S DS
5th Gear
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 956
Likes: 1
From: Lower Merion, PA (Philly)
I understand your frustration all too well......had the stumble problem since September, 2002 and filed a Lemon Law suit in August, 2003. However, last week I had v36 loaded and the stumble & bog (never had a yo-yo) are history. Since then my anger and frustration have almost completely subsided, but I plan to wait a few months to be sure the fix is permanent before I withdraw my legal action. Right now I'm ecstatic about how my car is running!
*Note: Even if the problem is satisfactorily repaired, Lemon Law allows you to sue for damages for the period time it existed prior to the fix........if you can't get over how you've been treated and decide that you want to pursue it.
Also......if you have mods, the manufacturer would have to prove that your mods contributed to causing the stumble problem in order to deny your claim on that basis.....and we all know that just isn't so.
The fix is out there.....I am now a believer. Good luck!
'02 dark silver/white MCS, Pilo intake & ignition, B&M short shifter
*Note: Even if the problem is satisfactorily repaired, Lemon Law allows you to sue for damages for the period time it existed prior to the fix........if you can't get over how you've been treated and decide that you want to pursue it.
Also......if you have mods, the manufacturer would have to prove that your mods contributed to causing the stumble problem in order to deny your claim on that basis.....and we all know that just isn't so.
The fix is out there.....I am now a believer. Good luck!
'02 dark silver/white MCS, Pilo intake & ignition, B&M short shifter
Thread Starter
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2nd Gear
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 83
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From: Portsmouth, RI
Really don't want the car bought back, but I feel that MINI has not been up-front (Tokio put it better with the word "forthright" and that they did/do not have a fix yet (8-months of the same story breeds pessimism). Such as it is they may leave me no choice but to request a buy-back.
As I've stated, I'd love to work with them to fix this, but "with them" would require that they be actively doing something...anything. They have not shown that - as of yet.
and that they did/do not have a fix yet (8-months of the same story breeds pessimism). Such as it is they may leave me no choice but to request a buy-back. As I've stated, I'd love to work with them to fix this, but "with them" would require that they be actively doing something...anything. They have not shown that - as of yet.
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2nd Gear
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 144
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From: brookfield NH
I feel your pain. I bought mine used, and the closest dealer is 2 hours away.Mine has the stumble,yo-yo,sunroof rattles,trunk rattles,and the most annoying thing, mine is an early 2/02 production with the old suspension.It pulls to the left ALL THE TIME. I plan on leaving it with the dealer in a few weeks when both my fiance and I can take the day off to drop it off.Having owned 2 previous very high mileage 3 series bmw's and countless toyota's I am am shocked at how ridiculously poor the build quality of this vehicle is. Granted all is forgiven come the first twisty road, but I don't think it will be long before I'm driving another 3 series.The other day I drove my 89 toyota pickup to work.189k miles, and not a squeak or rattle in it.
4th Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 434
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Mine has the stumble,yo-yo,sunroof rattles,trunk rattles
_____________________
Even the 03's have rattles...the MINI will never have the build quality of the 3 series unless MINI makes some changes in building it. I'm sorry, I don't want to hear what do you expect for a $20K car as I have driven Hondas that were rattle free and cost much less. Sorry about the suspension issue as I wasn't aware the suspension was drastically changed on the 03, still it shouldn't be pulling to the left, are you sure the previous owner didn't hit something or damage something to throw the alignment out of whack?
The MINI is a great concept from BMW, but unfortunately the execution has not been up to BMW standards or even Honda for that matter....
Good luck !
_____________________
Even the 03's have rattles...the MINI will never have the build quality of the 3 series unless MINI makes some changes in building it. I'm sorry, I don't want to hear what do you expect for a $20K car as I have driven Hondas that were rattle free and cost much less. Sorry about the suspension issue as I wasn't aware the suspension was drastically changed on the 03, still it shouldn't be pulling to the left, are you sure the previous owner didn't hit something or damage something to throw the alignment out of whack?
The MINI is a great concept from BMW, but unfortunately the execution has not been up to BMW standards or even Honda for that matter....
Good luck !
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,062
Likes: 1
From: Boston, MA
miniblues, I haven't heard you say a single positive thing about the MINI in well over a year, except when you tie it to a negative in the same sentence. I think we have enough of a range of opinions on this forum that we don't need you chiming in all the time to trash the car outright. I'm sorry if you got a bad car, but plenty of us got good ones. Don't you have anything better to do than troll this forum?
This is a valuable thread, and all your comments can do is derail it.
_________________
This is a valuable thread, and all your comments can do is derail it.
_________________
4th Gear
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 593
Likes: 0
>>
>>The MINI is a great concept from BMW, but unfortunately the execution has not been up to BMW standards or even Honda for that matter....
>>
I agree 100%. My ’03 MCS has been a blast to drive but an irritation to own. Way too many problems with mine and the all rattles are driving me nuts! I’ll be trading my MCS hopefully on Friday for an ordered M3 that is currently being held captive at the VPC.
BMW/MINI has sure been dragging their collective feet when it comes to correcting well documented problems.
>>The MINI is a great concept from BMW, but unfortunately the execution has not been up to BMW standards or even Honda for that matter....
>>
I agree 100%. My ’03 MCS has been a blast to drive but an irritation to own. Way too many problems with mine and the all rattles are driving me nuts! I’ll be trading my MCS hopefully on Friday for an ordered M3 that is currently being held captive at the VPC.
BMW/MINI has sure been dragging their collective feet when it comes to correcting well documented problems.
4th Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 434
Likes: 0
This is a valuable thread, and all your comments can do is derail it.
_________________________
Sorry you feel you have to shoot the messenger...lol!
I have had plenty of positive comments about my MCS, styling, handling, fun factor. But also have been critical of the build quality and the service department.
If you don't like my comments, you are certainly free to ignore them, but obviously I'm not alone in regard to some of my criticisms as jerrygee and many others also have posted.
jerrygee......I'm envious...the M3 is one incredible car....let us know your thoughts after driving it for a few weeks.....did you get the newer 330 hp version??
Good luck, did you get a good trade in or did you sell your MINI. My wife ordered the new 5 series and I am using my MCS as a trade since they gave me a good trade in quote because of the huge profit margin on the new 5...lol !
BTW...can't believe the difference in the BMW and MINI service departments even though they are in the same center..amazing how much more professional and accomodating the BMW side is :smile:
_________________________
Sorry you feel you have to shoot the messenger...lol!
I have had plenty of positive comments about my MCS, styling, handling, fun factor. But also have been critical of the build quality and the service department.
If you don't like my comments, you are certainly free to ignore them, but obviously I'm not alone in regard to some of my criticisms as jerrygee and many others also have posted.
jerrygee......I'm envious...the M3 is one incredible car....let us know your thoughts after driving it for a few weeks.....did you get the newer 330 hp version??
Good luck, did you get a good trade in or did you sell your MINI. My wife ordered the new 5 series and I am using my MCS as a trade since they gave me a good trade in quote because of the huge profit margin on the new 5...lol !
BTW...can't believe the difference in the BMW and MINI service departments even though they are in the same center..amazing how much more professional and accomodating the BMW side is :smile:
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,147
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From: New Hampshire
I understand the frustration, but I don't get why some of you are saying that BMW hasn't done anything about it when so many people are reporting that v36 solves most if not all of the stumble/yoyo problems. And even if it doesn't solve all those type problems, it at least shows that they're actively working on it. Not saying they're perfect or have been the most communicative, but let's be fair here.
4th Gear
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 593
Likes: 0
>>
>>jerrygee......I'm envious...the M3 is one incredible car....let us know your thoughts after driving it for a few weeks.....did you get the newer 330 hp version??
>>Good luck, did you get a good trade in or did you sell your MINI. My wife ordered the new 5 series and I am using my MCS as a trade since they gave me a good trade in quote because of the huge profit margin on the new 5...lol !
>>
>>BTW...can't believe the difference in the BMW and MINI service departments even though they are in the same center..amazing how much more professional and accomodating the BMW side is :smile:
The M3 is rated at 333 hp. I also ordered the SMG gearbox; I look forward to the new technology.
I will have close to 9,500 miles on my MCS when I trade it in and I will be getting back 91 cents out of every dollar I paid for the MCS excluding taxes and license and the MCS is in dire need of a set of tires.
The MCS is a blast to drive aggressively and I have enjoyed driving it immensely but the fun has been tempered by the less then stellar quality of build, unresolved electrical problems and the blatant two tiered service offered MINI vs. BMW customers. With only 70 dealers nationwide finding qualified service can be a problem for some. My local MINI dealer has proven to be inept and unable to facilitate proper repairs even with multiple visits. I am purchasing the M3 from another dealer that does not sell the MINI brand and have been pleased with their service in the past on my wife’s X5.
I hope you enjoy your new 5 series and have fun with iDrive!
Jerry
>>jerrygee......I'm envious...the M3 is one incredible car....let us know your thoughts after driving it for a few weeks.....did you get the newer 330 hp version??
>>Good luck, did you get a good trade in or did you sell your MINI. My wife ordered the new 5 series and I am using my MCS as a trade since they gave me a good trade in quote because of the huge profit margin on the new 5...lol !
>>
>>BTW...can't believe the difference in the BMW and MINI service departments even though they are in the same center..amazing how much more professional and accomodating the BMW side is :smile:
The M3 is rated at 333 hp. I also ordered the SMG gearbox; I look forward to the new technology.
I will have close to 9,500 miles on my MCS when I trade it in and I will be getting back 91 cents out of every dollar I paid for the MCS excluding taxes and license and the MCS is in dire need of a set of tires.
The MCS is a blast to drive aggressively and I have enjoyed driving it immensely but the fun has been tempered by the less then stellar quality of build, unresolved electrical problems and the blatant two tiered service offered MINI vs. BMW customers. With only 70 dealers nationwide finding qualified service can be a problem for some. My local MINI dealer has proven to be inept and unable to facilitate proper repairs even with multiple visits. I am purchasing the M3 from another dealer that does not sell the MINI brand and have been pleased with their service in the past on my wife’s X5.
I hope you enjoy your new 5 series and have fun with iDrive!
Jerry
2nd Gear
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 123
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>>Even the 03's have rattles...the MINI will never have the build quality of the 3 series unless MINI makes some changes in building it. The MINI is a great concept from BMW, but unfortunately the execution has not been up to BMW standards or even Honda for that matter....
>>
I'm sorry, but I owned two E46 3 Series sedans, and they rattled like hell. One was a '99 model year and the other was an '02. Do a search on bimmerfest.com and roadfly.com for "rattles," "clunks," etc.
2nd Gear
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
From: brookfield NH
>>Mine has the stumble,yo-yo,sunroof rattles,trunk rattles
>>_____________________
>>
>>Even the 03's have rattles...the MINI will never have the build quality of the 3 series unless MINI makes some changes in building it. I'm sorry, I don't want to hear what do you expect for a $20K car as I have driven Hondas that were rattle free and cost much less. Sorry about the suspension issue as I wasn't aware the suspension was drastically changed on the 03, still it shouldn't be pulling to the left, are you sure the previous owner didn't hit something or damage something to throw the alignment out of whack?
>>
>>The MINI is a great concept from BMW, but unfortunately the execution has not been up to BMW standards or even Honda for that matter....
>>
>>Good luck !
It really kinda sucks, I do like this car.It's an absolute blast to drive.I've put 6k miles on it in 3 months.It's probably the most fun to drive car I have ever owned. BUT... I don't care if its a new chevy cavalier, there simply shouldn't be this many problems with any new car.I realize most people on here are bigger mini fans than you and I, but this kind of build quality is intolerable.I was planning on driving this car well after it was paid for, probably up to 200k plus miles like I have with my last few BMW's. I'm not confident this car will make it.The interior rattles are so annoying i've been driving my old pickup more and more to work.And it hasn't even snowed yet! It was a tough decision whether to buy another used 3 series or a cooper s , and sadly I think I made the wrong choice.Luckily I got an amazingly good deal on the car private sale so I can probably get more as a trade-in than what I paid for it.
>>_____________________
>>
>>Even the 03's have rattles...the MINI will never have the build quality of the 3 series unless MINI makes some changes in building it. I'm sorry, I don't want to hear what do you expect for a $20K car as I have driven Hondas that were rattle free and cost much less. Sorry about the suspension issue as I wasn't aware the suspension was drastically changed on the 03, still it shouldn't be pulling to the left, are you sure the previous owner didn't hit something or damage something to throw the alignment out of whack?
>>
>>The MINI is a great concept from BMW, but unfortunately the execution has not been up to BMW standards or even Honda for that matter....
>>
>>Good luck !
It really kinda sucks, I do like this car.It's an absolute blast to drive.I've put 6k miles on it in 3 months.It's probably the most fun to drive car I have ever owned. BUT... I don't care if its a new chevy cavalier, there simply shouldn't be this many problems with any new car.I realize most people on here are bigger mini fans than you and I, but this kind of build quality is intolerable.I was planning on driving this car well after it was paid for, probably up to 200k plus miles like I have with my last few BMW's. I'm not confident this car will make it.The interior rattles are so annoying i've been driving my old pickup more and more to work.And it hasn't even snowed yet! It was a tough decision whether to buy another used 3 series or a cooper s , and sadly I think I made the wrong choice.Luckily I got an amazingly good deal on the car private sale so I can probably get more as a trade-in than what I paid for it.
4th Gear
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 593
Likes: 0
>>
>>>>Even the 03's have rattles...the MINI will never have the build quality of the 3 series unless MINI makes some changes in building it. The MINI is a great concept from BMW, but unfortunately the execution has not been up to BMW standards or even Honda for that matter....
>>>>
>>
>>I'm sorry, but I owned two E46 3 Series sedans, and they rattled like hell. One was a '99 model year and the other was an '02. Do a search on bimmerfest.com and roadfly.com for "rattles," "clunks," etc.
I had a '01 330i coupe (E46) with manual transmission and the car was delivered with one slight rattle (a rattle is a rattle however) in the driver’s door that was fixed in one dealer visit. After that, no more rattles. My MCS on the other hand, well........
>>>>Even the 03's have rattles...the MINI will never have the build quality of the 3 series unless MINI makes some changes in building it. The MINI is a great concept from BMW, but unfortunately the execution has not been up to BMW standards or even Honda for that matter....
>>>>
>>
>>I'm sorry, but I owned two E46 3 Series sedans, and they rattled like hell. One was a '99 model year and the other was an '02. Do a search on bimmerfest.com and roadfly.com for "rattles," "clunks," etc.
I had a '01 330i coupe (E46) with manual transmission and the car was delivered with one slight rattle (a rattle is a rattle however) in the driver’s door that was fixed in one dealer visit. After that, no more rattles. My MCS on the other hand, well........
4th Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 434
Likes: 0
I'm sorry, but I owned two E46 3 Series sedans, and they rattled like hell. One was a '99 model year and the other was an '02. Do a search on bimmerfest.com and roadfly.com for "rattles," "clunks," etc.
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hmmm...unless the build quality has deteriated on bimmers, I'd be surprised based on my experience...had a brand new 83 320S, LSD, Recaro seats (wish I had them in my MCS, to die for), 5 speed, special alloys, paid $16K (hard to believe how cheap that sounds now)...put over 50K miles on it, not one rattle, not one, other than brakes, tires, routine maintenence. My wife I married in 92, bought her a 3 series convertible, zero rattles, she even side-ended a station wagon, $10K damage, they fixed it and not one rattle after the fix, although she traded it in on god of all things a Miata, laugh ! My brother has had both a M5 series and a 7 series (he is unfortunately more successful than me, laugh). Both rock solid cars, not one rattle in either one. And the service department at all have been outstanding in terms of tech knowledge and accomodation. IMO just terrific cars and terrific dealerships.
Anyway the MCS is going towards my wife's 5 series and I have to decide what to get next....drove the new RX8 a friend of mine let me take for the day...solid car, but something missing, didn't handle as well as the MINI and the power while much quicker than the MCS was not overwhelming, the high rev engine is pretty cool to listen to....also drove the G35 Coupe, also nice, but again missing something..I am damn afraid to drive the M3...lol...although they do have a mint used M3 convertible on the lot...tempting
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hmmm...unless the build quality has deteriated on bimmers, I'd be surprised based on my experience...had a brand new 83 320S, LSD, Recaro seats (wish I had them in my MCS, to die for), 5 speed, special alloys, paid $16K (hard to believe how cheap that sounds now)...put over 50K miles on it, not one rattle, not one, other than brakes, tires, routine maintenence. My wife I married in 92, bought her a 3 series convertible, zero rattles, she even side-ended a station wagon, $10K damage, they fixed it and not one rattle after the fix, although she traded it in on god of all things a Miata, laugh ! My brother has had both a M5 series and a 7 series (he is unfortunately more successful than me, laugh). Both rock solid cars, not one rattle in either one. And the service department at all have been outstanding in terms of tech knowledge and accomodation. IMO just terrific cars and terrific dealerships.
Anyway the MCS is going towards my wife's 5 series and I have to decide what to get next....drove the new RX8 a friend of mine let me take for the day...solid car, but something missing, didn't handle as well as the MINI and the power while much quicker than the MCS was not overwhelming, the high rev engine is pretty cool to listen to....also drove the G35 Coupe, also nice, but again missing something..I am damn afraid to drive the M3...lol...although they do have a mint used M3 convertible on the lot...tempting
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,293
Likes: 2
From: Cincinnati, Ohio
>>
>>Anyway the MCS is going towards my wife's 5 series and I have to decide what to get next....drove the new RX8 a friend of mine let me take for the day...solid car, but something missing, didn't handle as well as the MINI and the power while much quicker than the MCS was not overwhelming, the high rev engine is pretty cool to listen to....also drove the G35 Coupe, also nice, but again missing something..I am damn afraid to drive the M3...lol...although they do have a mint used M3 convertible on the lot...tempting
Be daring, I hear that there is a no reserve 1958 BMW Isetta coming up for auction by Kruse! BMW made and smaller than a MINI! Should be the talk of the town!
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,062
Likes: 1
From: Boston, MA
>>The MINI is a great concept from BMW, but unfortunately the execution has not been up to BMW standards or even Honda for that matter....<<
So you've owned a bad MINI and a great Honda. I've owned one great MINI, one great Acura, and one crap Honda that everything went wrong with. I just don't think that you can make these kinds of blanket statements based on the handful of people whose experiences you've read about on this site.
BMW's lack of RESPONSE to the problems - that's a whole other, entirely valid issue. Why should anyone have faith in the V.36 software when previous versions have appeared to solve the problems in the short term, only to have the problems return? I think the lemon law route is a well justified way to go for the people unlucky enough to get the problem cars.
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So you've owned a bad MINI and a great Honda. I've owned one great MINI, one great Acura, and one crap Honda that everything went wrong with. I just don't think that you can make these kinds of blanket statements based on the handful of people whose experiences you've read about on this site.
BMW's lack of RESPONSE to the problems - that's a whole other, entirely valid issue. Why should anyone have faith in the V.36 software when previous versions have appeared to solve the problems in the short term, only to have the problems return? I think the lemon law route is a well justified way to go for the people unlucky enough to get the problem cars.
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4th Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 434
Likes: 0
So you've owned a bad MINI and a great Honda. I've owned one great MINI, one great Acura, and one crap Honda that everything went wrong with. I just don't think that you can make these kinds of blanket statements based on the handful of people whose experiences you've read about on this site.
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You are right, I have never owned a Honda, one of my sons owned a used civic for 1 year and around 15K miles on it. It had 65K miles on it when he traded it.....although not a terrifically fun car to drive, no rattles or problems the year he owned it. I'll stick with commenting on bimmers which I have owned. I will comment on my MCS and the problems I have encountered as well as one friend that also has a MC and 2 other MINI owners I have met here in Phoenix. All 4 of us have the same rattles issues among other things but rattles being the most frustrating to get fixed at the dealership here in Scottsdale. So no in that regard I would hardly call it a blanket statement concerning MINI's..lol !
I'm glad you have a perfect MINI, wish I had one as well as I'm sure my friends do as well...best of luck !
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You are right, I have never owned a Honda, one of my sons owned a used civic for 1 year and around 15K miles on it. It had 65K miles on it when he traded it.....although not a terrifically fun car to drive, no rattles or problems the year he owned it. I'll stick with commenting on bimmers which I have owned. I will comment on my MCS and the problems I have encountered as well as one friend that also has a MC and 2 other MINI owners I have met here in Phoenix. All 4 of us have the same rattles issues among other things but rattles being the most frustrating to get fixed at the dealership here in Scottsdale. So no in that regard I would hardly call it a blanket statement concerning MINI's..lol !
I'm glad you have a perfect MINI, wish I had one as well as I'm sure my friends do as well...best of luck !
5th Gear
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 715
Likes: 0
it seems the people getting pissed and trading away there mini's are people with alot of money, and can afford swapping out cars here and there. and think that all things should be fixed right away... well wake up guys this is the real world... not everything fixes with a blink of an eye. I work in tech support, and i'm sure i talk to people like you all the time that think something should just work, they don't understand everything that goes on behind the scenes.
you may think i don't have a clue what i'm talking about. My gf has a mini and it has the stumble/bad idle etc... it's a show car, and a daily driver, we have complained to the stealership, and we got similar responses, that it didn't exsist etc... so we went higher, and higher till you talk to somebody that knows what's going on. Now she is working with a person from the NJ facility, that has taken care of it, the chip has been sent to be reprogrammed, and we are awaiting it's return.
bottom line... get rid of your mini, you can't appreciate the simple things in life. or even better give it to somebody who can appreciate the car.
you may think i don't have a clue what i'm talking about. My gf has a mini and it has the stumble/bad idle etc... it's a show car, and a daily driver, we have complained to the stealership, and we got similar responses, that it didn't exsist etc... so we went higher, and higher till you talk to somebody that knows what's going on. Now she is working with a person from the NJ facility, that has taken care of it, the chip has been sent to be reprogrammed, and we are awaiting it's return.
bottom line... get rid of your mini, you can't appreciate the simple things in life. or even better give it to somebody who can appreciate the car.
Thread Starter
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2nd Gear
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
From: Portsmouth, RI
Chrisnl,
You've hit my problem right on the head - "trust." I've heard nothing from BMW/MINI about the problems that are plaguing our cars. MINI gives little or no information to its dealers about fixes (ask any 10 MINI owners what their dealer knows and you'll get 10 different answers). Again , when the 7-series had this problem, BMW admitted it and agreed to do what it takes (that message was in Automobile, Autoweek...); when the M3 had its motor problems, BMW was very vocal about standing behind the motor and extending warranties (again covered in every major motor mag). Why then do we have to scrabble around in the dark, asking each other in hushed tones, "do you think version 3x.0 will fix it?" Does the MINI nameplate not deserve corporate care, have we not spent enough money to be worth your time? I'm sure that Autoweek would carry your message to the faithful - they have a MINI owner on staff. Do you not have enough stamps to send out a few letters? How about including some up-front information in the boxes with the pens, mugs, signs, etc... (or are you just trying to distract us from the whole issue?)
We need to be hearing from MINI; they built these cars and they promised us service on them. Communication is part of said service. BMW/MINI, please start communicating. You designed these cars as an entry level platform to get people in the family - hoping that we'd grow into your product line. Do a cost-benefit analysis; what happens if even 1/2 the number you thought would buy up into BMW territory decide that the taste you're leaving in their mouth means that they need to buy elsewhere? Is it the quality that will make them leave, or is it the fact that you haven't treated them like valued customers?
Think about it BMW. I'm a professional, whose salary growth over the next 5-10 years means that I will be able to buy from Audi, Mercedes, Lexus, etc. Do I think that they build a better car? Not really, but I may be willing to see if they'll treat me like a more valued customer before I spend a great deal of money with a company that's treated me like a mushroom.! :evil: :evil:
You've hit my problem right on the head - "trust." I've heard nothing from BMW/MINI about the problems that are plaguing our cars. MINI gives little or no information to its dealers about fixes (ask any 10 MINI owners what their dealer knows and you'll get 10 different answers). Again , when the 7-series had this problem, BMW admitted it and agreed to do what it takes (that message was in Automobile, Autoweek...); when the M3 had its motor problems, BMW was very vocal about standing behind the motor and extending warranties (again covered in every major motor mag). Why then do we have to scrabble around in the dark, asking each other in hushed tones, "do you think version 3x.0 will fix it?" Does the MINI nameplate not deserve corporate care, have we not spent enough money to be worth your time? I'm sure that Autoweek would carry your message to the faithful - they have a MINI owner on staff. Do you not have enough stamps to send out a few letters? How about including some up-front information in the boxes with the pens, mugs, signs, etc... (or are you just trying to distract us from the whole issue?)
We need to be hearing from MINI; they built these cars and they promised us service on them. Communication is part of said service. BMW/MINI, please start communicating. You designed these cars as an entry level platform to get people in the family - hoping that we'd grow into your product line. Do a cost-benefit analysis; what happens if even 1/2 the number you thought would buy up into BMW territory decide that the taste you're leaving in their mouth means that they need to buy elsewhere? Is it the quality that will make them leave, or is it the fact that you haven't treated them like valued customers?
Think about it BMW. I'm a professional, whose salary growth over the next 5-10 years means that I will be able to buy from Audi, Mercedes, Lexus, etc. Do I think that they build a better car? Not really, but I may be willing to see if they'll treat me like a more valued customer before I spend a great deal of money with a company that's treated me like a mushroom.! :evil: :evil: