I emailed a Mini dealer near me about a month ago with a question and since then he’s been emailing me periodically asking if I have any questions. So I decide to ask him about the much talked about "stumble."

This is what I asked him:
I've been reading about people having stumble problems with the S. I've also heard about some ECU upgrades that help with the stumble some. Are there other fixes in the works? Also some people have been fixing the stumble issue with after market parts, such as a smaller super charger pulley or a cold air induction kit. Do either of those modifications void any or all of the warranty?

His answer:
The stumble problems are mostly driver error. Ever car and clutch are different; you just need to understand how to find their mesh point and drive the car correctly. There was a fuel injection flash upgrade made to the cars, which may or may not have been related. But there is no "stumble." There is only "hustle," trust me.

Any modification made to the car immediately voids the warranty.

 

1st off, Welcome to MCO! :smile: I'm sorry this topic is your first post

Besides the dealership obviously being wrong, they are out of line with their "any modification voids the warranty" line. You can add a cold-air intake and exhaust and it will not effect the warranty. Ditto with suspension and brake components. The Pulley will void your powertrain section of the warranty however; you have to buy the JCW to benefit from that piece-of-mind.

The stumble is an algorithm problem in the engine control software; if your dealership is unwilling to help, write MINIUSA a letter, and find a new dealership that IS willing to help.

Also, try out the [search] function, there are many threads discussing the stumble.

Cheers,
Ryan

 

It is possible that he has never driven a car that actualy stumbles. The stumble does feel to a passenger as if you goofed. My car stumbles only on the first take off, so slipping my clutch for several seconds just to avoid it seems like a waste of good clutch material to me so I don't bother.

My car does however experience a bog when trying to accelerate out of relatively sharp turn and that can be downright scary and can not be called driver error.

There seemed to be a opinion in Europe that since the stumble was experienced over here first that we Americans most be doing something wrong, and it is also appeared that BMW was attempting to deny the issue by claiming operator error as well.

So your dealer could be mis informed, or just a flat out liar.

There is a STUMBLE, a YOYO and a BOG to go with the hustle, unfourtunately.


The good news is that it is reported to be solved. I would order a 04 with confidence and thanks to all of us who have experienced the coolant bottle leak, cracked winshields, flexing A pillars and stumble. It is through our suffering that the 04 is better and more sorted out than any MCS that BMW has ever sold. So to you new owners or potential owners Enjoy.

For the rest of us, your dealer should have version 36 of the ECU software by the end of November, whether or not he believes in the Stumble, he should be willing to load it for you.

 

Welcome to the club, :smile: It's like an addiction posting. Anyhoo, regarding ANY modification "voiding" the warranty- their is something called the Magneuson/Moss Act (do a google search for it). That states unless a modification was implicitly responsible for a failure, you cannot be held accountable for it.

Typically exhausts, air-intakes, brake mods, wheels/tires will easily fall into this. I have heard of ECU's and even pulleys going thru this, but- in that case, you in a "Grey area". Also, even if the act DOES prove you right, you will most likely need legal counsel to battle BMW and your dealer (oh joy), so in the end the aggrivation, tylenols, damaged MINI and crisp hundreds spend will likely be more pain then it was worth.

The stumble feels like you are coming off the clutch without enough revs (or at least to me), or starting in 3rd gear.

caio,

-Matt

 

When I do mods to a vehicle's engine in any form, I consider my warranty for the drivetrain null and void. The Magneuson/Moss Act gives some protection against a dealer refusing to warranty something completely separate from your mods, but zfxr is dead on the money when he stated that the expense of a legal battle will far outweigh the cost of buying a new engine or transmission.

I consider the following conservative list of mods to be "drivetrain-warranty-safe":

Any cosmetic interior/exterior mods
Exhaust
Brakes
Wheels/tires

Beyond that, I will pray for luck and a friendly service manager if ever faced with a potentially mod-related warranty repair

 

I have a fairly unique perspective on the stumble issue:

I had an 02 MCS in the UK and drove 14,000 miles with no stumble

I then moved to the US, and got a new 03 MCS, which does stumble.

So I know it's not a driver skill issue, unless I just forgot how to use the clutch! :evil:

So don't let anyone tell you that it's people not knowing how to drive a stick-shift......

I'd avoid your dealership in the future, as they are ill informed, and giving you misleading information.

The line about voiding the warranty is just a peach!

Chris.

 

Your M.A. is full of poop on both counts.
Who is the dealership?

 

>>I have a fairly unique perspective on the stumble issue:
>>
>>I had an 02 MCS in the UK and drove 14,000 miles with no stumble
>>
>>I then moved to the US, and got a new 03 MCS, which does stumble.
>>
>>So I know it's not a driver skill issue, unless I just forgot how to use the clutch! :evil:

Chris, thanks for providing irrefutable proof that the stumble resides in our right hands. Clearly, people who shift with their left don't stumble.

DonkeyPunch, your Motoring "Advisor" is full of crap. This is a lesson on why you shouldn't trust a car salesman on mechanical issues. (or apparently warranty provision issues).

 

UPDATE

I emailed the dealer back and asked:
So if I put on non-factory breaks or a non-factory air filter then I void the entire warranty?

He replied:
That may be over-stating it a bit, but if you change the car mechanically as you previously described, yes, there would be issues with the warranty. Absolutely. There is no need in the first 3 years or 36,000 miles to have anyone but a MINI certified tech work on your car because of the free scheduled maintenance.

Does that make sense?


The dealer I have been communicating with is in Schaumburg, Illinois. I know there are some people on here from the Chicago area that belong to a Mini club. If any of you read this let me know what dealer(s) you've used and what your expieriences were like dealing with them.

 

>>I would order a 04 with confidence and thanks to all of us who have experienced the coolant bottle leak, cracked winshields, flexing A pillars and stumble. It is through our suffering that the 04 is better and more sorted out than any MCS that BMW has ever sold. So to you new owners or potential owners Enjoy.


Speaking for my '04-ordering brethern (and sisteren), Thank You. [Can't wait until December!]

 

>>Any modification made to the car immediately voids the warranty.
>>[/i]


Just spoke to my dealer who will do any and all mods including a new pulley. They say that adding intakes and exhaust DO NOT void the warranty. Adding a pulley voids the ENGINE & SC warranty as the "water pump needs to work harder and the temps run slightly higher" The drive train (transmission) warranty is still valid though. I should get this in writting.

 

>>Just spoke to my dealer who will do any and all mods including a new pulley. They say that adding intakes and exhaust DO NOT void the warranty. Adding a pulley voids the ENGINE & SC warranty as the "water pump needs to work harder and the temps run slightly higher" The drive train (transmission) warranty is still valid though. I should get this in writting.
>>
>>
>>

Who is your dealer?


_________________
'03 S DS

 

Has anybody received "offical" clearance from MINI for exhaust and intake upgrades RE: voiding of the warranty?...everybody says "no problem" but I don't want to be the test case!....Thanks

 

I'm guessing that jurni's dealer is MINI of Peabody (MA) as this is exactly what they told me. They do the pulley, exhaust, and intake routinely. Advertise them in the showroom.

The service manager at Peabody made the very good point once that while they'd never had a problem with any of their engine mods causing engine failure that IF THEY DID (and of course this would negate the engine warranty) it would be cheaper to simply buy a whole new MCS motor than to get a JCW package and the bit of extra warranty that provides. This ought to answer anyone who wonders if it's better to go the JCW route (and stay on MINI warranty) or to buy the same mods separately (and "risk" your factory warranty).