Im currently looking at a 2003 mini cooper s with 42k miles. The clutch has not been replaced yet and im wondering what they are typically going at. I have been scouring around the internet and found many horror stories. Could some people post how long their current clutch has lasted for the first generation mini s?

 

Wrong forum. The clutch in my '05 R53 S had to be replaced under warranty at 25K miles. The LuK OEM sourced German clutches are CACA. The second clutch is holding up pretty well @ 40K miles. Time will tell if this one will outlast the factory one.

 

Any more ideas from people? or what is the longest that you have seen them lasting

 

The clutch wear out factor is 99% a variable as to how it is used, treated, and the skill or lack there of of the driver.

Too many variables to say a clutch will typically last a certain amount of time.

I have worked with people who buy new cars with clutches and have worn them out in 10K miles. Because they know I am a mechanic, they sometimes ask me. So I then say, take me for a ride..... that's about all I have to see. No instruction, no technique, no knowledge of what abuse they are doing to their clutch. And usually they don't want any advice either, just put in another and be on their way (for another 10K miles).

I observed a person drive in a (brand not important) car complaining about a transmission noise. The service adviser had a mechanic take it for a spin. The mechanic brought it back and said the tranny was shot, the adviser said it will be $5,000 to fix it. The car owner quickly and calmly said, "Will it take long"?

Sorry to get off subject. Just couldn't resist.

YD

 

It's almost impossible to figure out how long a clutch will last (or how many miles it will go). You might as well ask how long the brakes will last.

As noted, driving habits play a big role. Also, the environment the car was/will be in. If you're driving mostly highway, a clutch is going to last many miles. Lots of in town stop and go... it's going to wear quicker.

 

54k miles and daily abusive launches... still good. Tires not doing so well.

 

I replaced mine @ 66,000. I drive very aggressively and really wanted a spec 2 and lightweight flywheel. It was starting to slip, but no serious problems. $1,500.00 for the clutch upgrade.

 

So any general tips on how to be gentle on your clutch?

 

Each of our two '06 'S' MINIs has about 32k on the factory clutch, with no problems so far.

As for being gentle on the clutch, the most important thing is to minimize the time spent with the clutch half-engaged. For example, if you're stopped on a hill, don't hold the car in place by slipping the clutch - use the brakes instead.

Likewise, don't drive around with your left foot resting on the clutch pedal, no matter how lightly you think you're resting it on there. The only time your foot should be on the clutch pedal is when you're actually shifting gears.

 

I have a bone stock 03 MCS with 42k miles - are you trying to buy my car? I didn't know I was selling it

My clutch felt brand new until last night's dragway episode - the grab point was super low, and never slipped, but now the grab point has moved up some, though it's not slipping. I've had the clutch get heatsoaked and slip on me from 1st to 2nd before, but it goes away. Also, I've done two track days and two autocrosses with short tracks (lots of shifting) and never had a problem. So, see where the grab point is, and if it's fairly low, and the car seems to have been well kept, you should get some good life out of it. Just don't take it to the drags

 

For those people that have longer clutch life what is the technique that you used. Or tips that you can offer. I have been driving a stick for the last 3 years and would appreciate some tips.

 

A clutch plate is a friction material that engages against a metal surface (flywheel). The key to longevity is to minimize the clutch disk rubbing against the flywheel.

Now there's always going to be some rubbing when you start out and when you change gears, since unless the clutch is completely engaged the engine and transmission aren't rotating at the same speed. It's inherent in the design, and all clutches will eventually wear out.

Most of the biggest points have already been made (don't hold on a hill using the clutch, dont' rest your foot on the pedal...)

Drag racing and other hard (borderline or flat out abusive) driving will wear your clutch out faster. You got to pay to play...

Downshifting isn't necessary, and those that do it for "additional braking" are accelerating clutch wear. Use your brakes to slow you down. Brake pads and rotors are cheaper and eaiser to replace than a clutch. If your speed decreases and you need a lower gear, just pick the gear and continue on.

 

the stock flywheel on the other hand...

I upgraded my clutch with 92k miles on it, and the friction disk looked like I'd have had another 10k at least on it before I'd be getting to the rivits. Holding force was starting to go downhill, but I wasn't surprised because of how much wear there was on the stock unit.

There have been Mini clutches swapped at much less mileage, but for a car that has about a million units produced, there weren't TONS of cars that needed premature clutches. More than one would like to see, yes, but not tons. And it's a car that begs to be driven hard, so overall, I'm not surprised.

To make the clutch last is to learn launch the car. Like others have said, minimze the slippage time.

Matt

 

What does that mean?

 

This sounds right. I have a VW Passat with 165,000 and the original clutch. It's a lot higher grab point than my new Clubman but no slip.

 

between when the cluch is fully disengaged and there is no frictional heat genereated and when the clutch is locked between the flywheel and the pressure plate. This is when the friction disc is partially clamped and slipping. This creates tons of heat and is the time when the wear occurs. So to use a clutch well, you want to match the power output of the engine to what's needed to launch the car from a stop without requiring that the friction disc slide a lot. A very good clutch engagment involved lifting of the clutch pedal briskly while giving it the right amount of gas to get the car moving. The longer the clutch slides, the more the wear.

Matt

 

Hey guys I have a 2003 MINI Cooper with about 124,000 miles on her! I am on my third tranny, second flyweel, and third clutch. I went ahead and replaced the clutch at aroud 70,000 with the second flywheel. I replaced the second clutch with a Spec stage 1 clutch. The clucth has been fairly good in terms of grabiness and and feel. The clutch does chatter from time to time but not all of the time. The engagement point is closer to the top as time goes on. Since I got a aftermarket clutch will it last longer? Will it effect the flywheel or trany more?

 

think about how stuff works... The crank, pistons, con rods and flywheel all have mass, and as these move they have inertia. When they are moving fast, this can be thought of as an energy reserve....

Now when you engage the clutch, there's stored energy in the all the moving parts, and as the friction increases, this energy can be "traded" into motion of the car. By far, the most energy is stored in the flywheel. Also, as you add gas, this provides aditional force that can be used to move the car.... So far so good.

Now, large flywheels store lots of energy and it also smooths the motion of all the parts, as the power stroke on each piston can be thought of as a pulse of energy, or a kick. If there is enough mass in the flywheel, the pulses are reduced and you get a nice smooth motion of the flywheel. More stuff that's pretty basic....

Now, when you lighten the flywheel, a couple things happen. First off is that the pulses of the compression strokes are less damped, and this ends up showing up as the kicks to the flywheel being percievable and showing up as a "rattle" when in neutral or with the clutch in.

The second thing that happens is that there is less stored energy in the rotating parts, and if you don't add the right amound of gas, the weight of the car wins out and the engine is slowed to much, and this is why it's easier to stall the car with a light flywheel.

The third thing that happens is there is less mass that has to be speeded up as the car accelerates, and more of the work done by the engine can go into accelerating the car, so you get faster acceleration and the engine can change speeds easier.

So, this is all flywheel stuff. Now for the other parts. The friction disc and the pressure plate. The friction disc is like a round brake pad. Just like brake pads, they wear (this is the change in the pedal engagment height) and they have a specific friction co-efficient and change with tempuratures. This is the "grabiness" kind of.... The pressure plate is what squezes the friction disc, and is typically some kind of diaphram spring. This is the pedal effort. The reason that the grabiness isn't all friction disk is that depending on how the pressure plate is made, it can move more or less than the stock one for a given pedal travel. So the "grab" of the different clutch is really a combination of both the friction disc and the pressure plate.....

Now, for the aftermarket clutch lasting longer or not, that all depends, as there are lots of different types of aftermarket clutch. But going through three clutches in 124k is pretty fast wear for a non-race car, so, and don't take this the wrong way, I'd suggest working on your clutch technique. The fact that the third clutch is engaging near the top of pedal travel, and it has gotten there over time, isn't encouraging. While you can have a different engagement point depending on how all the parts go together and the like, gradual change over time is a sign of wear.....

Hope this helps,

Matt

 

Thank you, I just think the stock tranny and clutch and flywheel on this car is kinda crappy. I know I drive the car sprited, but not all of the time. Plus I drive over 400 miles a week in city traffic and highway, so it is harder on the car. I'll just keep my fingers crossed in the longevity of my third tranny, second flywheel, and third clutch!

 

I totally agree with the commentst that the biggest contributer to clutch wear is driver technique. My '03 MCS has over 120,000 miles on the original clutch with no noises or slip. That includes very frequent autocross use starting in Oct 2002. Our '98 Forester S has 247,000 miles on the original clutch (owned since new), and my previous daily driver / autocross car had 193,000 miles on the original clutch when I sold the car. It had been slipping very slightly since 116,000 miles, but only if I made a very fast shift from 7000rpm in 1st to 2nd. A slight pause and no slip at all. It was still behaving exactly the same at 193,000 miles.

Scott
90SM

 

You don't really even need a clutch . If you get to know your engine speed and road speed relationships, you can shift without the clutch.
More realistically, there is a lot good advice already provided. The more time the clutch is engaged and the harder the car is being pushed during that engagement, the more wear. My car's clutches typically last 150 to 200K (in most cases the car dies before the clutch does) and I hoping that my mini's will last that long...

 

clutch isnt that expensive to replace anyway

 

i am newbie and have a question...

i bought a used 2005 MCSC and how do i know my clutch ( or other parts) need ot be replaced within my 50,000 warranty ? i know MINI will not repalce them voluntary...

besdies taking to a mechanic to find out, what esle can i do? what parts are usually replaced at 50,000 miles?

 

The theoretically best answer is not to use the clutch at all. Learning to shift by matching speeds (engine & gearbox) allows you to avoid using the clutch, except for getting into gear at a stop (which can also be done clutchlessly on a hill).

Of course, the learning process could involve doing damage to the gearbox that greatly outweighs the cost of clutch wear. For a person asking a question like the one above, this is not a practical or skill-level appropriate answer-- but it's something to aspire to, I guess.

I just recently discovered another benefit to clutchless shifting-- being able to drive home after a clutch failure. (viz.- my other post soliciting clutch kit reccommendations)

 

Start by taking note of how high you rev the engine and how long it takes you to get completely off the clutch pedal when you're pulling away from a dead stop. I usually rev the engine up to 1800-2000 RPM and then start releasing the clutch, which briefly slows the engine down to about 1200-1400 RPM. As I'm pulling away, I have my foot completely off the pedal by 1500-1800 RPM.

The people that rev the engine up to 2500-3000 RPM and then s-l-o-w-l-y release the clutch pedal to get the car moving are the ones most likely to be looking at premature clutch failure.