Since anyone buying a Cooper S, probably wants to drive it like a racing machine, is there any way to reverse the ASC (traction control) circuit? ie:

1) So it is permanently NOT ON unless you choose it, and
2) So that annoying yellow light on the dashboard is only on when you have ASC enabled, instead of the other way around.

Yeah sure, it's just a switch, and I flip it off everytime I start the engine, but I really would like to get rid of that pesky yellow "warning" that I have no traction control and might lose control of my car on uncertain driving conditions...

Hello BMW??? If you're going to market this car as a "cart experience" I would really like to see you give me an ABS-killing option too. Heck, you spent so much time setting this car up so well - leave the fancy electronics for old women driving 7-series. (Or me when I'm very tired possibly and don't feel like driving like a maniac - it may happen one day!)

 

I don't want to sound like a gimp, but i think that would leave BMW and you open to litigation if it came like you describe as standard. Plus you get lower insurance premiums for having ABS.

However I understand that turning all the assisted driving features off would be good for compotition. Any Racers out there have any ideas how this is handled in the real world?

I would not turn ABS off on the road as it has saved me more times that I care to mention. That is because mostly I drive too fast. But somtimes It has been a situation out of my control. How would you feel if you had ABS turned of and skidded into some kid that ran out in front of you? How would that kids parents feel if they knew you had turned ABS off?

Hmm I didn't mean to go on like this but the more I think about it ther more I think ABS should not be turned off while you are on a public road.

Pebble.
:smile:

 

Fair comments. I didn't mean that I will drive like a maniac with ASC and ABS turned off anywhere where there are loads of cars and people. My fun time is on a back country road with virtually no cars and absolutely no people (the odd cyclist very rarely).

So I can agree about the ABS - it could be standard ON and by button OFF. But the traction control really is a bit over the top on a car like the CooperS with such excellent handling.

I can't see how this would open the way for BMW litigation. After all many cars don't have any traction control at all! Since everything else is programmable, why not this?

On a serious note, yeah, killing someone would not be particularly pleasant. But we wouldn't have bought MiniCooperS's if we thought about that all day, huh?

 

>>So I can agree about the ABS - it could be standard ON and by button OFF. But the traction control really is a bit over the top on a car like the CooperS with such excellent handling.
>>
>>I can't see how this would open the way for BMW litigation. After all many cars don't have any traction control at all! Since everything else is programmable, why not this?

AlexChalk-
I currently drive a car (Golf GTI VR6) that has a similar ASC (traction control) system. One of the reasons VW (and probably BMW) made it default "ON" (but switchable "OFF&quot is the fact that you have a relatively high-powered FWD powerplant layout. Under circumstances like this, if you "forget" (in the rain, etc) to turn it back on, nasty things can happen! Lots of torque, weight transfers FROM the front, TO the rear (un-driven) wheels, and "bingo"; wheelspin!

If you're concerned about the "stop-light grand prix", one button turns it off. Same thing for DSC. They have allowed the driver to turn off either of these "helpers", if he/she so chooses.

The "programmability" of these features (as in your first note) is certainly FEASIBLE, and the part that intrigues me! We might see more things like this in the next generation or so of the vehicle software. One could even imagine "driver-specific" settings (so "I" get full boost; and my "Son" gets lower boost... and all safety/control features permanently "ON", and a GPS "locator" telling me where he is with my precious MINI at every instant, and.... . I think the "programming" feature of the MINI (and it's expansion) has enormous potential. In the future, one could program, or "tune" everything from mirror settings, to audio stations, engine boost, and suspension "stiffness"; so that it would be "tailored" for each driver that uses the car.

For right now, we should probably be glad that BMW allowed user CHOICE on ASC and DSC (instead of hard-coding them "ON", and providing no options). Since these things (ASC, DSC...) are driven by software, I expect them to slowly improve... and get better & better. Look at Formula 1; software-driven "sequential" shifting, and traction control used by all cars at the Grand Prix "standing start" (although, as with the MINI, the driver can "select" not to use it).

I'm looking forward to seeing how well the MINI's ASC & DSC (as well as all of the other software-driven "help&quot works in the real world. Only 6 more months to go!

-DavidG

 

Hear, hear, DavidG! Great post! I like the future of custom-tailored programming, too!

Cheers!
Clover

 

>>
>>Hmm I didn't mean to go on like this but the more I think about it ther more I think ABS should not be turned off while you are on a public road.
>>
>>Pebble.

Have you ever tried stopping on ice with ABS? It's butt clenching time. I drive a '98 Crown Vic, that has both traction control and ABS, I modified it so the TC is off by default and I have a toggle switch for the ABS mostly for when it's icy out, but I can stop in a much shorter distance in most situations/road conditions without the ABS. My point being, practice driving your vehicle at the limits without the aid of the electronics, so you won't fail if they do.

Happy Motoring.
X2Board

 

>>Have you ever tried stopping on ice with ABS? It's butt clenching time.

No I haven't, not much ice in FL! :smile:

Pebble
:smile:

 

According to an article that, alas, i did not read, but i did read all the heat in the letters section of the magazine, is that under controlled braking situations, ABS has MUCH longer breaking distance then standard brakes. Under icy conditions, you were usually better off with ABS... but when it comes to ABS, as a buddy of mine said a long time ago, it's not going to keep you from hitting something, but at least you'll be able to aim at what you're going to hit...

And this is the first ABS car i've had... My wife's car has ABS, and yes, it did save my butt one day... (Going down hill, light at the bottom of the hill turned red, and hey, who put this ice here???)... but I just wish that ABS was selectable on the fly... maybe a break pedal with two positions, or something along thoes lines...

Rocketboy_X

 

>>Have you ever tried stopping on ice with ABS? It's butt clenching time. I drive a '98 Crown Vic, that has both traction control and ABS, I modified it so the TC is off by default and I have a toggle switch for the ABS mostly for when it's icy out, but I can stop in a much shorter distance in most situations/road conditions without the ABS. My point being, practice driving your vehicle at the limits without the aid of the electronics, so you won't fail if they do.
>>
>>Happy Motoring.
>>X2Board


I agree. When I was young, my dad took me and my sister out for a drive in the ice and snow. He found an empty lot and pushed the car to its limits while explaining to us how to handle emergency situations in bad weather. (That was fun)

You should take your car out and push it to its limits to see how it will handle (in good and bad weather). You should know how it will brake and steer at its limits.



_________________
....that car is a bad *****
--Shut your mouth!
--I'm talkin bout MINI!
--We can dig it!!!

 

A month later and I'm getting used to it. Driving with traction control on is definitely not fun. I can't think of a single instance when I found it useful, but if I was a 50yr old granny I guess I would appreciate.

HECK we bought MiniCoopers to skid and slide around guys! (and gals) Furthermore the car goes MUCH SLOWER with ASC on. Even when the light doesn't appear, sometimes it gently brake one of the tyres. Worse of all is the fact that you can't learn what the car will behave like with ASC on. It's like having another person controlling your car. BMW, LEAVE TRACTION CONTROL FOR 7series AND CARS FOR PEOPLE THAT DON'T REALLY DRIVE!

I still find that damn yellow light (when I switch ASC off) bloody annoying. Maybe we should stick some sticky tape over that part of the dashboard... :evil:

 

Pull the switch and see what kind it is . Single pole, 2 pole, normally open, normally closed, etc.

i.e If it is a double toggle, single pole, normally open sitch then just replace it with a double toggle, single pole, normally closed switch.


Randy

 

>>Pull the switch and see what kind it is . Single pole, 2 pole, normally open, normally closed, etc.
>>
>>i.e If it is a double toggle, single pole, normally open sitch then just replace it with a double toggle, single pole, normally closed switch.
>>
>>
>>Randy

Uhm, ya, what he said.

R

 

>>
>>Uhm, ya, what he said.
>>
>>

It's not rocket science. 7th grade industrial-arts kinda stuff.

Randy

 

I am not a fan of ABS, sure you get shorter stopping distance if you slam on the brakes with it than if you didn't have it and locked your brakes, a rolling tire has more stopping power than a skidding one. However, if you actually drive your car and pump your brakes under such conditions you can go farther than the computer and stop sooner. It also puts you more in tune with your automobile which is what the MINI is all about.

 

>I am not a fan of ABS, sure you get shorter stopping distance if you
>slam on the brakes with it than if you didn't have it and locked your
>brakes, a rolling tire has more stopping power than a skidding one.
>However, if you actually drive your car and pump your brakes under
>such conditions you can go farther than the computer and stop sooner.
>It also puts you more in tune with your automobile which is what the
>MINI is all about.

Try pumping the brakes while you steer AROUND an obstacle. Welcome to why ABS is better.

Sure, race car you'll want non-abs. Real world daily driving - you'll kiss the engineers who made ABS happen the first time you emergency swerve while standing on your breaks. ABS can manipulate individual wheels whereas no matter how macho good you or anyone thiks they are can do this.

That is why you WANT ABS in a road car. Just having some time at a driver event on a skid pad makes you appreciate it.

 

>>Pull the switch and see what kind it is . Single pole, 2 pole, normally open, normally closed, etc.
>>
>>i.e If it is a double toggle, single pole, normally open sitch then just replace it with a double toggle, single pole, normally closed switch.
>>
>>
>>Randy

Hey guys,
This switch, it a momentary type. If you put a standard toggle in it will lock up the logic circuit that it is sending the pulse back to. I would suggest -- "Don't mess with it". By the way I repair car electronics for a living and have been in the business for 13 years. See Ya.....

 

>>This switch, it a momentary type. If you put a standard toggle in it will lock up the logic circuit that it is sending the pulse back to. I would suggest -- "Don't mess with it". By the way I repair car electronics for a living and have been in the business for 13 years. See Ya.....

Well there ya' go. If it is momentary then the logic is controlled by a box somewhere (ECU or separate DCS/ABS controller) and as said above, cannot be changed with a simple swap of a switch type.

Randy

 

I've finally been fooling around with turning it off seeing how it's well broken in... and wowza... i love the squeal in second gear... it's not a 'forced' sound, it's just kind of there...

My new habit: locks down, asc off, MOTOR!

Rocketboy_X