Golly, that would've made a great YouTube video! (the rattle and the SA's expression, not you beating your head on the wall).

 

I can't say I'm terribly surprised, after all of the other 'fixes' that didn't fix the problem. It is very frustrating, though.

 

Did they replace the timing chain, VANOS, sprockets, and guides along with the new tensioner, or just the tensioner?

I've read of one instance in the UK last month where they only replaced the tensioner and didn't fix the problem. After replacing all of the potentially affected components, the rattle seemed to disappear. One SA in the U.S. is on record (in this thread) as saying that BMW/MINI has formally directed replacing everything.

The other thing that makes me a little suspicious is that a lot of service departments are reporting (whether true or not) six-week back order wait times to get the latest and greatest tensioner...and they only first appeared in the parts inventory in early March.

The itemized listing of the parts on the work order might reveal some clues.

Here's the complete list of what SHOULD be replaced, courtesy of OldMGguy:
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...24&hg=11&fg=25

 

I cant believe Im reading this. I want to laugh and cry at the same time. right there in the dealer's lot...

torobud I hope it all gets worked out.

 

So are they directed to replace the VANOS unit? (I didnt see it in the parts list.) What is this, about a day and half labor per car here??

reason I ask about VANOS is that my SA told me if it's malfunctioning in any way it'll throw a code.

 

According to the Portland OR MINI dealership, the concern is accumulated physical damage to all three sprockets (one of which is the Vanos unit), guides, and the chain itself caused by chain slack "waves" swapping sides as the engine accels/slows down. See this excellent explanation of timing chain excessive slack problems
http://www.michiganmini.org/forum/index.php?topic=3115.msg88780#msg88780

 

I waded through that entire thread, and believe that as a whole it contains the best technical description of any I've seen on the issue.

We should probably do a better job socializing the NHTSA IVOQ site over here on NAM. Everyone experiencing the issue should take the initiative and file a report. As Tom points out in the other forum, NHTSA won't initiate anything until they get a sufficient number of complaints.

For sequence: A day and a half was a pretty good SWAG on your part -- it appears from owner reports that it takes two days.

 

We should probably do a better job socializing the NHTSA IVOQ site over here on NAM. Everyone experiencing the issue should take the initiative and file a report. As Tom points out in the other forum, NHTSA won't initiate anything until they get a sufficient number of complaints.

Sent mine in today - wasn't too painful to wade thru.

 

I will get the details off my paperwork and compare/post... tonight or tomorrow...

Thanks for the heads up!

 

I believe I have a good relationship with my SA at this point... and what makes me feel better is that HIS Cooper S does the same thing

 

Here is exactly what is on my receipt:

1199000 Procedure Steps 1-11
844WMINI
1 11-31-7-593-309 Chain Tensioner
1131590 Removing and Installing or replacing
piston for timing chain tensioner
844WMINI
FC: 1133043900
Part#:
Count:
Claim Type:
Auth Code:

13247 Chain tensioner defective as per SI M11 02 07 Performed steps 1-11 and then replaced the piston for the timing chain tensioner. The noise has been eliminated. { hahaha! - I sure proved them wrong! }

 

I'm no expert on this, but it sounds like they did the earlier fix, not the one that replaces *everything*.

 

My Jan '09 build R55 has started doing this, it's done it about 6 times since I took delivery in late Feb, it now has 2k miles and it's getting more frequent it seems..........

I called my dealer and of course they know about it, but said they'd done "the fix" on one of their in service cars and it didn't fix it, so they were reluctant to do the same to my car - although they said they would if I wanted them to. I asked them to put a note in my service file.

The other day I backed the car out of the driveway and parked it on the street - no noise. Later that day my wife drove it to work and as she left I could clearly hear it rattling all the way up the block and around the next corner! It was about 60* that afternoon, so I think it's more engine temp being cold than actual ambient temp, and I think you all are on to something when you say it happens after being run for a very short time then restarted later, although I have had it do it from a fresh start in the AM.

It does stop after a bit, but like others here, I am not happy about this after spending $30 large for a car.............I'm spoiled since my R53 has been a trouble free jewel since the day I got it...............

Edit: I also filed out the NHSTA form

 

Replacing the tensioner system with the new parts doesn't cost the dealer a nickel. It's all warranty work for them. Keep in mind that most of your SA's are not certified mechanics. They're customer relation people who are there to listen to customer rants, and do scheduling. They also pick up on mechanical issues as a course of the job, and may not be current on the latest repair, as in this case. Your SA was referring to the two previous timing chain repairs in 2008, none of which worked.

Take your car back, and request the latest repair as per the BMW directive, current as of March 2009, which says the entire timing chain system is to be replaced in order to properly fix the start-up chain rattle problem.

 

The timing chain tensioner piston part number on your invoice is indeed the latest version. Obviously by the continued chain rattle, your car has other damaged parts that should have been removed - stretched chain, damaged tensioner face or guides, damaged sprockets.

Take it back and demand they research the very latest BMW directive on this issue, which states the entire timing chain system is to be replaced. Your car demonstrates why!

 

no kidding. My SA didnt even know that starting with the 09 MY that 0-30W synthetic oil is now approved for use (it's in the owner's manual.)

 

Is this really a NHTSA problem? I'd prefer that the government not get involved, in any case.

When I had repeated issues with my 2007 MCSm, I contacted MINI USA, and they took care of me in a positive and sympathetic manner.

I have been very pleased with MINI USA, BMW, Patrick MINI, and MINI of St. Louis, in dealing with the issues I have had, including the cold start clatter and frozen throttle.

 

Do you have any specific information on the BMW directive? reference number? anything?

 

Let's see, MINI has come out with at least three fixes for this so far, and as of yet hasn't seemed to really have solved the problem.... If this were a single car here in CA, three failed attempts to fix the same problem qualifies the car as a lemon.

Matt

 

I wonder what would happen if you called OldMGguy's SA Ann at Rasmussen MINI in Portland? She seems to be a diamond in the rough when it comes to being forthcoming with customers. Maybe she has a reference to the "replace everything" directive and would be willing to share it with you.

Maybe if you told her that there are thousands of MINI enthusiasts online who are putting her on a pedestal as an example of exemplary customer service, she might do you a favor.

 

Let's see, NHTSA is going to come up with the real fix? Or maybe just stimulate MINI to really try? Oh, yeah. They seem to be doing that already....

All those who believe MINI wants this problem to go uncorrected, please raise your wrench.

 

The BMW directive is PuMA Measure 10686850-13. PuMA is the German acronym for fixing defective products. This is the "Replace Everything" directive. Measure 10686850-12 released 2/24/2009, is the previous repair directive, wherein everyone got the new redesigned tensioner, but the existing chain was only measured for stretching. Only if out of limits would other parts be replaced. US MINI dealers were not happy with the limited nature of the -12 measure, as they saw continuing future problems with other damaged parts in the timing chain system - as Torobud has unfortunately just demonstrated.

 

Thanks oldMGguy... I have inquired with my SA about the -13 fix.. I will make sure to post if I hear anything back...

EDIT: When I asked for the service to mine I asked with the -12

 

The Michagan Mini thread really goes into detail about a better explanation of a believable root cause having to do with valve lash and hydrolic lifter design. Instead, all MINIs efforts seem to be working on the symptoms. All of MINIs efforts seem to be linked to the thought that the tensioner is the root cause, and it's just how far the damage has spread to other systems (vanos and the like) that needs to be fixed so that the sound doesn't re-appear. I don't know why this is the course that they're choosing to persue, but I'm very surprised that there hasn't been a PuMA on replacing the lifters with an improved part. But we'll see.... The jury is still out on the "relpace everything" fix... Time will tell if that's going to do it. The track record of starting with "It's normal and nothing to worry about" seems undermined by the talk of stretched or failed timing chains and damage to the Vanos unit.... So at least to me it seem pretty obvious that the prefered escallation path started with the bury-head-in-sand technique and just wishing the problem away. This is not the best way for a corporation to convice the public that they have our best interests at heart.

Matt

 

NHTSA isn't going to do anything. This is not a safety related issue. Well maybe it is for folks who are now banging their head on the wall.

Now if enough people get their MINI's lemon lawed because of this, that will get BMW's attention.