Yellow engine light - full engine power no longer available
3rd Gear
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 190
Likes: 1
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin
Once Again...
... this morning saw the return of the Dreaded Half-solid Yellow Engine Warning Light 
on my '07 R56. Been fine since the last time I picked it up at the repair shop the day after Christmas last month; had it towed in the Monday night before when it wouldn't run right after a day parked in the commuter lot.
Conditions: MINI S sat in my drive way since 8 PM Wednesday night this week. It's been cold here - this morning it was -20 when I went out to start it up for the ride to the train. Started fine, then went into limp
mode, cycling the idle up and down with the yellow engine trouble light lit up.
Last time it did this - the night at the train station before Christmas - I had it towed into the repair shop as I didn't think it was road-worthy. When I picked it up the following Friday, they told me there's a new intake manifold that they've only seen one of so far that's supposed to help. I'll be getting one installed but they have no idea
when one will be available.
That was the eighth time it's been in the shop for this problem since February 2008.
This morning I let the engine run rough for a few minutes, then shut it off. After waiting another 20 or so, I tried again & it started & ran fine but the yellow outlined warning light stays lit. Drove it 14 miles to the station (@ -16° F) with no further troubles.
What concerns me about this now is if it's drivable once it runs smooth, is there a lot of unburned gas in the oil? They said they changed the oil & filter before returning it to me after Christmas, just for this possibility.
I'm really, REALLY disappointed in this new engine design; it's not ready for the NA market IMHO. It shouldn't be a problem AT ALL to build an engine that starts & runs well in our winter climate.
on my '07 R56. Been fine since the last time I picked it up at the repair shop the day after Christmas last month; had it towed in the Monday night before when it wouldn't run right after a day parked in the commuter lot. Conditions: MINI S sat in my drive way since 8 PM Wednesday night this week. It's been cold here - this morning it was -20 when I went out to start it up for the ride to the train. Started fine, then went into limp
mode, cycling the idle up and down with the yellow engine trouble light lit up.Last time it did this - the night at the train station before Christmas - I had it towed into the repair shop as I didn't think it was road-worthy. When I picked it up the following Friday, they told me there's a new intake manifold that they've only seen one of so far that's supposed to help. I'll be getting one installed but they have no idea
when one will be available.That was the eighth time it's been in the shop for this problem since February 2008.
This morning I let the engine run rough for a few minutes, then shut it off. After waiting another 20 or so, I tried again & it started & ran fine but the yellow outlined warning light stays lit. Drove it 14 miles to the station (@ -16° F) with no further troubles.
What concerns me about this now is if it's drivable once it runs smooth, is there a lot of unburned gas in the oil? They said they changed the oil & filter before returning it to me after Christmas, just for this possibility.
I'm really, REALLY disappointed in this new engine design; it's not ready for the NA market IMHO. It shouldn't be a problem AT ALL to build an engine that starts & runs well in our winter climate.
Last edited by sp_clark; Jan 16, 2009 at 12:46 PM. Reason: last-minute thoughts
3rd Gear
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 190
Likes: 1
From: "Driftless" Wisconsin
Won't Matter!
Besides, you'd need to park your newer MINIS in your BEDROOM
for any significant improvement in cold-start reliability. All kinds of folks report problems with theirs despite being kept in unheated garages. Mine sits out day and night & suffers from the same malady as you describe, starting back almost a year ago. Back to the shop at least eight times, myriad of things replaced / cleaned / rebuilt, no permanent improvement.
Happened to mine yesterday and today...but today it would not run out of "safe mode" at all, even after warmed up. Plus smelled like something was burning.
It just was towed and is now in Towne MINI's hands. Sure hope it gets fixed since I've spent the last two days late for multiple appointments!
It just was towed and is now in Towne MINI's hands. Sure hope it gets fixed since I've spent the last two days late for multiple appointments!
Here's a video of my 09 MCS with the cold start issue. Car only has around 400 mi and it's 3 degrees F
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyo7J5hk58A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyo7J5hk58A
Here's a video of my 09 MCS with the cold start issue. Car only has around 400 mi and it's 3 degrees F
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyo7J5hk58A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyo7J5hk58A
I can confidently say we have the same issue! That is EXACTLY what my car did the last two mornings.
2nd Gear
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 129
Likes: 0
my cel hasn't returned (yet), but i got a tpms warning too. the red one, low tire pressure version. the kind that indicates at least one tire is at least 5lbs. below normal. all tires are fine. checked 3 times.
Neutral
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Brand new MCS 2009 engine light came on at about 4,500 mi ,been on for about 400 to 500 miles still on ,it did go off once on a short cross town drive it came back on the next time I drove it. does not seem to bother the way the engine runs I am also in cold weather Alaska was -10 for a month thats when it came on, but I keep my car in a heated garage 70 Deg. I have left it inside and outside It makes no difference light is still on know matter where I park it. P.S. car is only 2 months old!
Former Vendor
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
From: Columbus metro area
My wife's car (07 mcs auto) has had the frozen throttle issue now twice the first time the dealer followed the repair directive to a "t"..ran it hard for several minutes vented it ran it hard again then changed out the oil. Four days later today here we go again. looks like we get to get in line for the new intake job. I haven't had a bit of problem with the 09 Clubman jCW not sure why, but it has been suggested its due to frequent "spirited driving " that is cooking the condensation out of the engine. I'm going to try this approach with the 07 MCS auto in sport mode and see if it helps.
1st Gear
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 41
Likes: 2
Add One more to the list. My 07 MCS started yesterday and lite the half power icon. Since it was about two at the time i messed with letting it run and then cleared the fault codes ( P1638 and P1639 pending) but to no avail. If it is a condensation problem then MINI has a design fault as my drive each day is 25 minutes each way and about 30 minutes of highway and stop and go so the motor is always well up to temp. Revs are used the the term "spirited driving style" applies.
Now that it is twenty out I am going to try again to get the car running. Might resort to the hot air gun to see if I can get things loosened up some.
I am disturbed that MINI does not seem to be on top of this problem. I can't imagine the liability issues if someone drives to a remote location and the low mileage one year old car refuses to run well enough to drive. Frost bite is a real danger at the temperatures we have been seeing lately.
Now that it is twenty out I am going to try again to get the car running. Might resort to the hot air gun to see if I can get things loosened up some.
I am disturbed that MINI does not seem to be on top of this problem. I can't imagine the liability issues if someone drives to a remote location and the low mileage one year old car refuses to run well enough to drive. Frost bite is a real danger at the temperatures we have been seeing lately.
1st Gear
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 41
Likes: 2
Followup after an hour of freezing under the Mini.
Pulled the upper ventilation hose off the head and it is full of moisture and yellow scum. Seems to be an indication that lots of moisture is being pulled down into the intake. Have to admit I don't like the construction of this part. Looks like it will get brittle with age and lead to leaks.
Also discovered that the dealer has overfilled the engine oil on the last service. pretty simple process to screw up but ....
Ten minutes of running the heat gun under the bottom of the intake manifold and the car started right up and ran smooth. Stopped the motor and cleared the fault codes. No fault codes on the restart and still a smooth idle. Left the car to idle for a few minutes while I pulled it off the stands and cleaned up the tools.
Took the car for a short run and no problems found. So, if the rumors about moisture collection in the lower area of the intake is at fault I made a series of runs in third gear where I would run up to fifty mph then let the car coast down to thirty mph on a closed throttle. Reasoning - a long period of high intake vacuum might help to clear the moisture. Probably wasted time ( and gas ) but lets see.
So car is running fine again and now for the ultimate test. Will it start tomorrow morning to get to work.
Pulled the upper ventilation hose off the head and it is full of moisture and yellow scum. Seems to be an indication that lots of moisture is being pulled down into the intake. Have to admit I don't like the construction of this part. Looks like it will get brittle with age and lead to leaks.
Also discovered that the dealer has overfilled the engine oil on the last service. pretty simple process to screw up but ....
Ten minutes of running the heat gun under the bottom of the intake manifold and the car started right up and ran smooth. Stopped the motor and cleared the fault codes. No fault codes on the restart and still a smooth idle. Left the car to idle for a few minutes while I pulled it off the stands and cleaned up the tools.
Took the car for a short run and no problems found. So, if the rumors about moisture collection in the lower area of the intake is at fault I made a series of runs in third gear where I would run up to fifty mph then let the car coast down to thirty mph on a closed throttle. Reasoning - a long period of high intake vacuum might help to clear the moisture. Probably wasted time ( and gas ) but lets see.
So car is running fine again and now for the ultimate test. Will it start tomorrow morning to get to work.
1st Gear
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Made it through the 100 hours of below zero, but this morning after a warm (20's) weekend in the garage the CEL and low power. Stumbled out to the expressway and went a few miles before I was able to restart and everything back to normal, usually it doesn't take so long to clear up. Underhood temps over the weekend a solid 25 degrees for tow days, colder than most times. I wonder if the compressed air from the turbo leaves a deposit just after the throttle (at the point of pressure change) or is it just poor crankcase ventilation (a problem current BMWs have) letting too much moisture accumulate.
I was able to schedule an appointment for my 07 MCS for this problem. Since I made the appointment, it has happened twice more. My Service Advisor told me they have had better than 30 cars in this week for the same thing. He also told me that they have a new procedure -- and I quote from the service order, "Found faults 2B2B and 2B32. They were caused by moisture and oil built up in the throttle body. Performed the revised procedure for the MINI frozen throttle problem. Brought the engine up to operating temperature (I have a temp gauge). Held 3,000rpm for 3 minutes, and let the vehicle idle for about 25 seconds. I did this 4 more times as advised by the RTE, then performed an oil and filter change, cleared faults, test drove, passed."
I am not sure what "RTE" means, but guess it be some sort of official service procedure notice. All was done on warranty, the car has several mods -- 3"turbo back exhaust, JCW stage 1, bigger intercooler, boost and temp gauges and nothing was said about the modifications.
The temperature will be in the teens tonight, the car is sitting outside and we will see if it starts ok tomorrow. I will post if I have any further instances. If I do, I might save a trip to the dealer by doing the "procedure" on my own.
Paul
I am not sure what "RTE" means, but guess it be some sort of official service procedure notice. All was done on warranty, the car has several mods -- 3"turbo back exhaust, JCW stage 1, bigger intercooler, boost and temp gauges and nothing was said about the modifications.
The temperature will be in the teens tonight, the car is sitting outside and we will see if it starts ok tomorrow. I will post if I have any further instances. If I do, I might save a trip to the dealer by doing the "procedure" on my own.
Paul
1st Gear
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
From: Minneapolis
Me Too.
Hate to be a "me too" on the Frozen Throttle issue, but this is exactly what happened to me this morning, in my '09 Clubman S. I was at a remote state park in northern Minnesota, about 30 miles from Ely, and about 20 miles from a cell phone signal. It was -12F/-24C when I started my car to come home from my vacation. Flashing half engine (mine was half red, half yellow?), nothing above 3K rpm, barely enough power to make it up a few of the relatively small hills in first gear. Of course, I was the last person to drive away, because I went to dump the garbage and recyclables, so no one was around had I actually been stranded. I was pretty scared at the time, starting to think of disaster scenarios. Drove it in "limp" mode for about 20 miles, aiming to at least get to a cell phone signal. Tried restarting after about 10 miles; no change. And then again after another 10 miles when I got near a bigger road, and thankfully, everything seemed fine this time. And just like others described, the center speedometer "check engine" light went out after a few more engine starts. Drove the next ~200 miles home, and it all seems back to normal.
I'll take it to the dealer tomorrow to get the codes read and confirm that this was my problem, and see what their current thinking on a "fix" might be. But since it's the same (and only) Minnesota dealer that other folks in this thread have mentioned, I'm guessing there won't be any good news. Sad to see this still happening on '09s.
You know, I've done the exact same vacation for 4 years now; the previous 3 years with my '93 Nissan. One year it was -25F, and that '93 Nissan started right up like a champ. This year, I paid twice as much for a 16 year newer car, and darned near got left alone in the woods with a limping MINI. Got some serious buyer's remorse going on here now, uh-huh....
I'll take it to the dealer tomorrow to get the codes read and confirm that this was my problem, and see what their current thinking on a "fix" might be. But since it's the same (and only) Minnesota dealer that other folks in this thread have mentioned, I'm guessing there won't be any good news. Sad to see this still happening on '09s.
You know, I've done the exact same vacation for 4 years now; the previous 3 years with my '93 Nissan. One year it was -25F, and that '93 Nissan started right up like a champ. This year, I paid twice as much for a 16 year newer car, and darned near got left alone in the woods with a limping MINI. Got some serious buyer's remorse going on here now, uh-huh....
I have the same, if not similar problem, and it's not going well:
I've had my MCS 07 (manual) since August. I ordered it new. Love it.
On November 29, I got into my car for work, and same lights as Twin Turbo's came on: engine failure and cruise control failure. The idle was terrible. I tried to take it around the block, and it wouldn't go above 20mph. I ran to catch a bus, and had the car towed later that day. Here's what my service report says:
"Checked fault memory found fault in the DME 2B31/2B32 throttle jamming faults. Removed intake tube from inner cooler to throttle motor. Found water and ice in the throttle motor. Created PuMA case. PuMA said to R&R throttle motor, clean out water, run car until hot and remove oil cap to let steam escape from engine and to inspect air filter for water. Cleaned all water from intake tubes and throttle motor. Inspected air filter for water ingestion. None. Re-installed all parts removed. Cleared fault memory. Ran car until engine was hot and removed oil filler cap and let moisture escape. Customer should try to let car get hot on every trip. Avoid short trips as this will cause moisture to build up in throttle and crank case."
The dealership had my car for a full week, because Mini could not give them a fix for the issue. Mini said I need to drive it more to keep condensation from collecting and freezing. The dealership replied that they can't sell Mini's to people if there's a minimum amount of mileage/time the user must drive everyday for. The dealership also told me that they're the northern most dealership in the US (I'm in Minnesota), so occasionally problems pop up that no one else sees. They give me my car, unfixed, and we hope for the best.
January 3: after driving my car daily, I get in my car, exact same thing happens. Indicator lights go wonky, car struggles to idle. I take the bus to work, get home, and the car starts/runs OK and I drive it to the dealership. This time they have it for 3 days. Same problem - ice in the throttle. They run the car on high, and let the steam escape by removing the oil cap. That's the best they can do.
January 21: Get in the car for work, same problem as above. I let the car idle for 30 minutes, and it sounded terrible. Stepping on gas pedal to rev the engine occasionally does nothing - pedal goes straight to floor. Wait for ice to thaw in throttle. After a half hour, call my service rep at the dealership. He tells me to turn off the car, and restart. Car then runs fine. I take it to the dealership. I am on courtesy car #3.
Three times. The first time I brought it in, another 07 Mini had the same problem. Between 1st and 2nd times, the dealership said they saw it in 3 or 4 more cars. I've had a post on the Sota Mini's forum, and an owner there has had it happen to them 2 times (second time was today).
Obviously there's a problem with the 07's. Yes, I am in a cold environment, and sometimes things freeze, but I didn't spend a ton of money for an unreliable car. The dealership is just as frustrated as I am (well, I'm probably more frustrated) because Mini hasn't yet acknowledged that there really is a problem. Hence, there's nothing to fix.
My friends refuse to go anywhere with me, because they're afraid we'll get stranded somewhere. My family doesn't want me driving it either.
Please, Twin Turbo, if this happens again, let it idle, then restart, and if it's idling correctly you can probably drive your Mini to the dealership. Other Mini owners, if this happens to you, report it to your dealership! It seems that the only way Mini will come up with a fix is if it happens to enough cars and acknowledge the problem as a defect. Aside from this problem, I do love my Mini, but I'm seriously considering having the dealership buy the car back from me - I cannot have a car that may not run in cold weather.
I've had my MCS 07 (manual) since August. I ordered it new. Love it.
On November 29, I got into my car for work, and same lights as Twin Turbo's came on: engine failure and cruise control failure. The idle was terrible. I tried to take it around the block, and it wouldn't go above 20mph. I ran to catch a bus, and had the car towed later that day. Here's what my service report says:
"Checked fault memory found fault in the DME 2B31/2B32 throttle jamming faults. Removed intake tube from inner cooler to throttle motor. Found water and ice in the throttle motor. Created PuMA case. PuMA said to R&R throttle motor, clean out water, run car until hot and remove oil cap to let steam escape from engine and to inspect air filter for water. Cleaned all water from intake tubes and throttle motor. Inspected air filter for water ingestion. None. Re-installed all parts removed. Cleared fault memory. Ran car until engine was hot and removed oil filler cap and let moisture escape. Customer should try to let car get hot on every trip. Avoid short trips as this will cause moisture to build up in throttle and crank case."
The dealership had my car for a full week, because Mini could not give them a fix for the issue. Mini said I need to drive it more to keep condensation from collecting and freezing. The dealership replied that they can't sell Mini's to people if there's a minimum amount of mileage/time the user must drive everyday for. The dealership also told me that they're the northern most dealership in the US (I'm in Minnesota), so occasionally problems pop up that no one else sees. They give me my car, unfixed, and we hope for the best.
January 3: after driving my car daily, I get in my car, exact same thing happens. Indicator lights go wonky, car struggles to idle. I take the bus to work, get home, and the car starts/runs OK and I drive it to the dealership. This time they have it for 3 days. Same problem - ice in the throttle. They run the car on high, and let the steam escape by removing the oil cap. That's the best they can do.
January 21: Get in the car for work, same problem as above. I let the car idle for 30 minutes, and it sounded terrible. Stepping on gas pedal to rev the engine occasionally does nothing - pedal goes straight to floor. Wait for ice to thaw in throttle. After a half hour, call my service rep at the dealership. He tells me to turn off the car, and restart. Car then runs fine. I take it to the dealership. I am on courtesy car #3.
Three times. The first time I brought it in, another 07 Mini had the same problem. Between 1st and 2nd times, the dealership said they saw it in 3 or 4 more cars. I've had a post on the Sota Mini's forum, and an owner there has had it happen to them 2 times (second time was today).
Obviously there's a problem with the 07's. Yes, I am in a cold environment, and sometimes things freeze, but I didn't spend a ton of money for an unreliable car. The dealership is just as frustrated as I am (well, I'm probably more frustrated) because Mini hasn't yet acknowledged that there really is a problem. Hence, there's nothing to fix.
My friends refuse to go anywhere with me, because they're afraid we'll get stranded somewhere. My family doesn't want me driving it either.
Please, Twin Turbo, if this happens again, let it idle, then restart, and if it's idling correctly you can probably drive your Mini to the dealership. Other Mini owners, if this happens to you, report it to your dealership! It seems that the only way Mini will come up with a fix is if it happens to enough cars and acknowledge the problem as a defect. Aside from this problem, I do love my Mini, but I'm seriously considering having the dealership buy the car back from me - I cannot have a car that may not run in cold weather.
Banned
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 593
Likes: 1
so i dont know if anyone said this b4 i did not want to read all the pages. This happen to me one time when it was 19 outside. i have some auxiliary gauges in my car. the reason it goes in to limp mode is because your turbo is not spooling its frozen in place most likely do the the thick oil. the reason it goes in to limp mode is so you dont blow out your engine. when your turbo finally does spool up it will start to run fine. then i reset the warnings and shut off the car, they never turned back on.
1st Gear
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
This is getting ridiculous
Sunday - CEL and no power
Monday - CEL and no power (late for my uncle's funeral)
Tuesday - CEL and no power
Today - CEL and no power
Today when I started up the car to the same CEL issue I decided I'd limp around the neighborhood until it warmed up and then head out on the highway to work. However, this time limping around did nothing. After an hour I finally got power but if I'd stop the car at a light or stop sign it'd go back to now power and all the lights. I was finally able to make it to work by shutting the car off at stop signs, starting it back up, stepping on the gas and not letting up til I got to the next sign. I did this for over 12 miles on the highway and it still didn't clear up like it normally does.
I'm waiting on a call from the manager at the dealership and we'll be chatting about them buying this car back and paying off my loan. Otherwise I guess it's time to lawyer up.
Monday - CEL and no power (late for my uncle's funeral)
Tuesday - CEL and no power
Today - CEL and no power
Today when I started up the car to the same CEL issue I decided I'd limp around the neighborhood until it warmed up and then head out on the highway to work. However, this time limping around did nothing. After an hour I finally got power but if I'd stop the car at a light or stop sign it'd go back to now power and all the lights. I was finally able to make it to work by shutting the car off at stop signs, starting it back up, stepping on the gas and not letting up til I got to the next sign. I did this for over 12 miles on the highway and it still didn't clear up like it normally does.
I'm waiting on a call from the manager at the dealership and we'll be chatting about them buying this car back and paying off my loan. Otherwise I guess it's time to lawyer up.
1st Gear
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
From: Toronto, Ontario
EKG - Whereabouts are you located?
I am in Toronto and had exactly the same thing happen to me. Another Winter related problem to my car - first the window dipper wasn't working, now this....come on BMW/MINI - how can you possibly have tested a car for Winter conditions if in a city like Toronto (not really cold compared to other parts of Canada) the MINI can't even function properly.
I'm thinking of contacting BMW Canada head office about this - enough is enough...you can't put a car on the market if it can't handle ALL seasons of the year.....if a Honda Civic that is half the price of my MINI can handle it...
I am in Toronto and had exactly the same thing happen to me. Another Winter related problem to my car - first the window dipper wasn't working, now this....come on BMW/MINI - how can you possibly have tested a car for Winter conditions if in a city like Toronto (not really cold compared to other parts of Canada) the MINI can't even function properly.
I'm thinking of contacting BMW Canada head office about this - enough is enough...you can't put a car on the market if it can't handle ALL seasons of the year.....if a Honda Civic that is half the price of my MINI can handle it...
1st Gear
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
I'm in Minnesota. They've been dicking me around over this for over a year now. I bought the car brand new in Sept 2007 and the issue started that same winter. Which means they've known about the issue and continue to produce and sell the same engine with the same issue over and over again. I don't understand how a company can do business like that.
1st Gear
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
From: Toronto, Ontario
I'm thinking class action? what about you?
We just need someone who works for a major newspaper to publish an article on this exposing how MINI have sold cars in the North American market that obviously failed a cold weather test during the design engineering phase.
New York Times - Car section surely would consider writing this?
That's a real worry that they have blown you off this long...as this is my first Winter with my MINI...
We just need someone who works for a major newspaper to publish an article on this exposing how MINI have sold cars in the North American market that obviously failed a cold weather test during the design engineering phase.
New York Times - Car section surely would consider writing this?
That's a real worry that they have blown you off this long...as this is my first Winter with my MINI...
1st Gear
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Yeah unfortunately the only people that benefit from class action is the attorneys. :(
We'll see what they offer when/if I get a call back.
My list of demands are:
1. Fix my car, NOW.
2. Replace my car with a new Mini at no cost to me (still a chance that the issue would exist).
3. Buy my car back with no loss to me and I walk away and buy a different car from some one else.
Of course at this point I think they should fix my car AND pay off my loan.
We'll see what they offer when/if I get a call back.
My list of demands are:
1. Fix my car, NOW.
2. Replace my car with a new Mini at no cost to me (still a chance that the issue would exist).
3. Buy my car back with no loss to me and I walk away and buy a different car from some one else.
Of course at this point I think they should fix my car AND pay off my loan.
Neutral
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
From: Lockport, NY
I have had the problem twice. The local mini dealer,Towne Mini installed a new designed intake. They said that it would take care of the problem.Installed on 1/26/09. Today is 1/28/09 with very cold temps.So far it is working.
1st Gear
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Yeah I've had the intake manifold replaced per their "fix" and got the car back right after new year's. ~ Jan 17 had the issue again. They did the usual run the **** out of it til it's clear and sent the car back. Now I've had the problem again since Sunday. I don't think the manifold fixed the cause of the issue.
