Excactly!!

And in addtion, Rastvan, it is BROKEN. You can NOT search and FIND something in the POI db without being a Clairvoyant. That my friend is, is BROKEN, plain and simple.

 

No, the problem we have here is a consumer who did not do his homework before laying out a load of money for an option on a car. After the fact, he decided he does not like it and did not buy a BMW because of it.

Mini did not hide anything. When i was looking at all the options for the Mini I went to the dealership so I could test drive the NAV. I did not care for it, so I did not buy it. The dealership was more than accomodating to allow me to test drive the NAV.

Instead of accepting responsibility for his own error. He is trying to push it off on Mini/BMW. The system works the ways it works. From what I can gather it was not changed for the time he ordered the car to the time he received the car. I see no basis for a thread like this at all.

Could it be improved? Probably. All software can be improved, given time. But that is not what this consumer wants. He feels he deserves the right to belittle and smear a company for delivering a product he does not like, even though it was his option to exercise or not.

Now, he wants his money back on the option he did not test drive and/or Mini to change the software to work as he sees fit.

If he didn't like the way the NAV worked, he should have not ordered it and gotten an external solution.

EDIT: It is not broken. You fail to understand the difference between 'broken' and 'annoying' or even 'frustrating'.

 

ed-zachary. thank you.

we have become a nation of over-spoiled, sniveling cry-babies. and we all have attorneys on speed-dial.

sad. very sad.

 

But flawed or imperfect ISN'T the same thing as Broken.
Flaw = 1. An imperfection, often concealed, that impairs soundness
Broken = 10. Not functioning; out of order

The NAV ISN'T broken, The POI function ISN'T broken but it does fail to perform in a fashion that satisfies one of its users.

 

Apparently you've never seen a 15/17/19% pulley thread, a DSC thread, an M7 thread...


Exactly. The Nav is flawed, and has been flawed for years. The ASC is flawed, too - no way it should cut power like it does for minimal wheelslip.
flawed<>broken, that's my only point. Yes, I would appreciate a 'search all' function. Sadly, I don't expect this will happen.


Actually, Birdman said that his dealer didn't have one, so it was ok for him to assume that the Nav would function to his expectation. Had he taken the time to try a Nav at a dealer, or read info on NAM, or ask a question, he would have discovered that the POI interface is flawed/archaic/not-user-friendly. Thus his issue is lack of research, not the flaws in the Nav. Expectations are a b!tch.

Once again, yes, I'd love a search all function. If starting a 'mininavsucks.com' website gets us that, then sign me up. I just don't expect that to happen.


While some have been critical of the expectation and lack of research, the misinformation apparently posted by Birdman has honked other folks off.
He has claimed:
- an unnamed person at MINI says the Nav is 'being fixed'
- All MINI owners will be getting a new disc and firmware update
- a lawsuit has been filed

Yet all of these are unsubstantiated - they are not facts, they are conjecture/misinformation/??WTF?? that are being stated as fact by Birdman. Bad information is worse than no information, and when we are urged to go to the dealer and ask for the update which Birdman claims is being created, it elevates from useless 'information' ("an update is coming") to misinformation which will cost people time and money. Some of us don't understand WHY one would urge us to go ask for something that doesn't exist. Perhaps he believes that if people ask their dealers, somehow the message will get back to MINI and something will be done. If he wanted to persue that strategy with our help, fine. But claiming 'an insider' has told him a fix is 'on the way' (while simultaneously claiming a lawsuit is being filed - but why file a lawsuit if a fix is on the way??) is disingenuous and deceitful if not true. If it IS true, then being armed will all available information will help us all. I've given him the benefit of the doubt at every turn, but the conflicting stories continue.
THAT is why I am critical. YMMV.

 

For the 10000'th time, we are NOT asking for the system to be changed so we "like it better" or so it is "more convenient" as you keep on suggesting. There are 100's of those types of items I could list. And yes, MINI should also correct those, just to make customers happy. But that has nothing to do with what we are asking for.

THE SEARCH FUNCTION DOES NOT WORK!!! That is fact, that is not an arguable fact, it is just fact. There is absolutely no reason to defend MINI on that point, unless of course you work for mini or a dealership and are concerended with sales.

SO GIVE IT UP already.

The NAV system software is BROKEN and needs FIXED. You can NOT search for an item in the POI database without knowing what category it is in. Since the data in the db is incorrect, inconsistent, it is imppossible to find items. That is BROKEN, plain and simple, like it or not. If we had the ability to search without having to select a category, then you could find anyting in the db, and then it work work. That has nothing to do with convenience. They advertised, and still do (incorreclty) that you can find over 6 million POI's in the db. Adn that is false, you can't 75% of them in a reasonable manner.

It's that simple, and not arguable. It's just FACT. Sorry.

And you can talk all you want about how I didn't look at it bla bla bla before purchasing it..... That is non-sense. id you try the rear windshield sprayer and wiper before pruchasing the car??? No. Now when you got your car, and it didn't work, would you want it fixed? Yes.

And the same goes for the ability to search the advertised "6 million POI db". I didn't search for them before buying the car, but now that I own it, I want it to work. Just like your rear wiper!

And lastly, as mentioned, I could care less about the money. I want the software to work as advertised.

 

There is NOTHING factual about anything you claim. Having to input a category doesn't equate to the system being broken nor does it equate to a failure to be able to find any of the 6 million POI's in the db.
Is the system poorly designed? Yes
Is it broken? No?
Could MINI make it more user friendly? Possibly.

 

Obviously, anyone who disagrees is just a Mini spy. Amazing that they pay people to chat on-line, pretending to be real people, rather than catering to Birdman's wishes.

 

exhibit A: creating a dialogue topic called, "The Navigation system does NOT work!!!"

exhibit B: despite the fact he is posting to a dialogue bulletin board, does not recognize that "dialogue" might include input from people with different opinions.

exhibit C: absolutely certain that there can only be one interpretation of the facts (his).

exhibit D: has engaged a lawyer, ensuring that he will pay quadruple in legal fees what he might even remotely expect to collect in damages.

exhibit D: setting posting records for a given string, saying the same thing again and again (what's the definition of insanity?)

your honor, we submit that this evidence proves, beyond a reasonable doubt, that what we have here is a certifiable @!#$#$@%#^.

 

@!#$#$@%#^ = http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis1/p21-pe07.html

 

Nobody found it yet?? hmmmmm/.. Must be broken.

Find that, or tell me how long it took you to say for 100% sure, it is not in the db, and tell me how long it took. THEN, tell me the system is not broken.

 

Yes, ans that is a fact as demonstrated in this thread by myself and may other owners.

Anyone may offer all the input on how to FIX the broken system all they want. We are all ears, that's the point of the thread, to get it fixed. But you can't argue the FACT that the system is broken, that is fact.


A fact is a fact, needs no interpretation. You can't find items which exist in the POI db, that is a fact. It's a fact that MINI advertsises that you can search for 6 million POI's. And it's a fact that you can't. No interpretatioin needed.

Who has? Me? Really? You sure about that? The only attorney I have engaged is my realestate attorney. And he's doing a great job writing contracts. Anywho.


Yes, you are correct. You MINI representatives keep trying to offset the problem with your system, with personal attacks on owners rather than simply fixing the problem and making your customers happy. Bad bidnes plan.


Exibit E:
Exbiker needs to check his facts before posting.

 

This is not a fact. PERIOD. I have found numerous things in POI. No, you can't ALWAYS find everything you are looking for, where you think it should be. But, the FACT is, you CAN find things in POI. Unless you can prove there aren't 6 million items in there, there is no case. PERIOD. It's really quite simple. It isn't broken; you simply don't like it. Why do you refuse to acknowledge that simple FACT?

 

Funny you say that. In mini's reply to my email regarding this issue, they said "the system was not designed to do directory based searches". And yet, in order to do a search in the system, we have to, errr umm, select a directory.

But your right, having to input a category does not equate to the system being broken. BUT, not being able to search for, and find the items in the db in a reasonable manner (like not being a Clairvoyant) does equate to the system being broken. And unfortunetly, that is what we have here.


Is the system Broken? YES. As demonstrated.
is the system portdesigned as well? Yes. But that has nothing to do with this thread.
Could mini make it more user friendly? DEFINIETLY, and it's some of the worst product support I have ever seen if they don't. But again, this has nothing to do with this thread which is based on getting a part of the Nav system which is broken, and does not work, fixed so it performs as advertised. Which it does not.

 

Ok. You guys win.


The navigation system in the R56 MINI works perfect. You can search and find all the POI's with ease, not problem at al finding anything. The data is categorized properly, and we have been given great search functionality which lets us easily find all the poi's, regardless of where they are stored.

Thanks MINI, great system!! And thanks to you guys here on NAM, for enlightening me. Stupid me, for thinking something should actually work. I'm not sure what I was thinking.

Moderator, please close and delete this thread. We wouldn't want any new buyer or shopper to read this mis-information about how the system doesn't perform properly!! My goodness, MINI is the center of the world, and heaven forbid somebody find a flaw!!

Anyway. Good luck with your nav units!! I'm glad nobody brought this issue up on the older 1st gen vehicles, cause then they might have fixed it.

 

If they phone book was printed wrong, in no order (instead of alphabetical as it should be), I could find things in it by throwing darts at it. Does that mean the phone book was printed ok?

 

Your sarcasm aside, this post highlights that FACT that somewhere between "works perfectly" which absolutely nobody claimed on this thread, and "broken" is imperfection. Glad you finally got it.

 

So if you have 100k in your bank account, but the bank balance inquirey only shows you 50k, that's just "imperfection" then right? Not broken? Oh, don't worry, don't complain about it, it's just imperfection. Don't worry about the other 50k.

No. that is BROKEN.

 

No. But the fact that I found fire wood under "Tree Services" as opposed to "Logs" doesn't mean the phonebook "is broken."

 

Ok, lets say your exactly dead on right. so you STILL think, MINI shouldn't FIX it???

(can't wait for this answer!!)

 

Not only does Birdman appear to not understand what the word 'broken' means, he appears thoroughly confused as to what constitutes a fact.

ExPatBiker, no one is actually sure there is any lawyers involved at all. There is no proof of that. There still is no suit filed in New York against BMW or Mini, as of today.

 

you've got it all wrong, bird dude. it does NOT work perfectly. clearly it is less than desired, and i think you've got a legitimate beef.

but hey ... life's full of little frustrations, nicht wahr? here is a short list of my own:

i'm a web journalist, and my publishing tool is on the fritz.
my dog has liver cancer and will have to be put down in the next few days.
my son is struggling in a senior-level class and may have to take classes through the summer to graduate from college.
my aging ipod has deteriorated to the point that it don't work hardly at all. gack.
my groove ain't what it used to be. sux gettin old.

in the context of all of the above, i can't imagine myself getting overtorqued over points of interest for my GPS. sorry, but ain't gonna happen. at least not to the point of three exclamation points and a full week's worth of bitchin and moanin.

so yeah, you've got a legitimate beef. feel betta? i don't.

my suggestion would be to compile a short list of wineries before you strike out on your wine-shopping sojourne. that's what i'd do. plug in the addresses and go forth and prosper.

i'll bet you'd feel a lot better about things. i know I would.

 

Fair enough. ok then, did you find or determine it's not in the db: "Emblem Embroidery" yet?

 

No. And I don't plan to. I am fully aware that it is hard to find things that are in the database. I have never disputed that. I have found numerous places, though. And, unless I explored the database and determined there were not 6 million + POIs that cannot be found in at least one of the categories, I cannot say either that the system is broken or that Mini lied. I can say, and have said, the POI part of the Mini nav sucks. It would behoove them to improve it. But, are they legally required to? Hardly.

 

Just when I was going to drop these threads all together....

Bird, we are not saying that you don't have a legitimate gripe, we are just saying that you are going about it the wrong way. The Navs purpose is to get you from point A to point B and the secondary function are POIs. If you plug an address in will it get you to your destination? Yes! So your nav is not broken. It is, however, a PITA to get a POI out of it but it can be done. It may not be what you like, but there are many POIs there if you are willing to search. For what it is worth, I have been trying to locate Media Markt (largest electronic retailer) and it isn't there either. Oh well.... Nav isn't broken if the POI doesn't exist in the database.

Bottom line is that you are butting heads with EVERYONE over something pretty stupid. Hopefully MINI is following this and taking notes, but I don't see a change in the near future. Considering that the majority think that you are out of it, then we all must be working for MINI.

As for the fix, I have been looking at it using PMN and for me, I am going to have to make a choice. I can either have my speed cameras loaded or I will have to dump them for the search as I don't have enough disk space. So, I am staying with the cameras as the search really isn't all that big of a deal to me.