This is true, but I think I know what is coming.

 

I managed to find one class action lawsuit filed against BMW in New York District Court in 2005.

I cannot find any filings of a civil nature later than that.

 

And again, as duly noted, the class action suit has not been filed as of yet. There is a waiting period of some sort prior to hiting courts.

And yes, he is MY attourny. He and his office has done realestate transactions for me, and have done several corporate cases for my company. And for hte 4th time now, he/they are NOT representing me in anyway in their class action suit against BMW (aka, the OWNER of MINI). And yes, they informed me, MINI and BMW, as well as 3rd brand (can't rememeber what it was) will be named.

And that said, nice try at changing the subject. I'm very familiar with the marketing tactics of turning forum threads into personal bickering in order to deflect attention from the real problem.

But it won't work. Your only drawing attention to the problem for more owners and worse, prospective buyers. THANKS!! That should help get the problem solved.

Back to the issue. You guys can pontificate all you want. But it's not solving the problem.

 

The respondent has no obligation to make a legal response until the suit is filed. At the time of the filing the clock starts. if the respondent does not respond before the time runs out, then the court issues a default judgement.

The only time the legal firms would meet prior to a filing a suit would be to test if a settlement could be reached. That is done outside the legal system and no time restraints are in place.

The moment a suit is filed, it becomes a matter of public record.

 

just what the country needs. more class-action bloodsuckers.

and, uhhh ... you DO know who ends up paying for it, don'cha?

 

That's nice. Take that info to your leagal 101 class, your sure to look like a genius!


Now, back to the problem. Has anyone solved it yet?

 

How would we solve it? I haven't gotten a phone call from Mini or an updated disc in the mail. I thought it was a Mini/Bmw problem.

 

Read this thread:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...d.php?t=119125

"Officemaven" has worked countless hours on solving it by creating alternative search category's with all the data in them on a new DVD. He is down to only having a problem burning the new DVD. He has run into a small bug.

The other problem is, doing this breaks copyright laws with MINI/BMW, and Navtech. Further, using the DVD in the car would probably void your warranty. Not to mention each of us would have to buy a piece of software, and spend countless hours learning the data, learnign the "hacking" software, and making the changes to ge the "fix" for ourselves.

But if WE can fix it, certainly MINI or Navtech could and should fix it, don't ya think?

 

I've been following that thread for the most part. I always skip bickering type responses so I may have missed something important. I thought Officemaven had the 1st gen car's nav disc working but not the R56's nav disc. I thought he was saying there wasn't enough room on the disc with the R56.

And, to me, breaking copyright laws means "we" can't fix it. Which is why I asked what "we" are supposed to do about it. I will complain to my service department when I schedule an appointment. Still waiting on parts to get here to fix a problem at delivery.

 

Actually, it appears that the disc space isn't an issue with the 2nd gen MINIs. I've been able to get the nav system to read dual-layer discs (which gives us gobs of free space to work with). However, I'm having trouble getting the nav system to be able to locate any of the custom POIs I add to the disc.

Whenever I create a new disc containing my Search All categories, the system always tells me that it can't locate any POIs when I do a search. Thus, I'm still trying to work out what's going on with that. I haven't had a whole lot of free time to work on it in the last couple of weeks though.

As for the 1st gen MINI's nav system... That one's pretty much done. There is a problem with free disc space on that version (since the dual layer discs won't work reliably in the older MKIV nav system) and so the end result is a disc where all the default categories are removed and only the custom Search All categories are there. For me, it's a "good enough" solution seeing as the original disc can easily be put back in the nav system should I ever need to use the default POI categories.

That's where things stand at this point.

 

You are the one that brought up something odd about the suit. That a delay of some type has to happen before the suit can be filed. I am simply telling you that is not true and then I provided you with a snapshot of how it actually works.

Your response is to make a personal attack. Peachy.

 

Great work Office!! Thanks for your help on this, I am ordering a new DVD burner today to see if I can't get my PMN working on my PC. (my current dvd burner isn't working with the MINI dvd for some reason).

I would assume you have tried a small change to the dvd first, right? In otherwords, take the original dvd, make one small change, like add a new category "Cameras" or something, and add a few POI's to it, save it and burn the dvd. See if that works, just to be sure it's not a problem with something else you (or the PMN software) did along the way importing and exporting the data.....

 

You read my mind. That's EXACTLY what my next step is (when I can grab some free time that is). I'm pretty sure it's just something wacky I'm doing wrong and that I'll be able to get it worked out quite easily.

Thanks for the info.

 

Just ordered a Plextor PX-800 dual layer dvd burner for the home pc. And an HP multibay dual layer dvd burner for my hp laptop. Off to Coscto to pick up some dual layer dvd's to test with. I'll be in bidness in a few days and be able to give you a hand.

And MINI will be getting the bill for all this. So far it's:
$40 for PMN software
$84 for Plextor burner
$172 for the HP burner
$ ?? for the DVD's at costco.
$(at least 4 figures) for OfficeMavens time
$(6 or maybe 7 figures) for lost sales revinue on new cars and accessories (Nave especially)
----------------------------------
Grand total = Would have been alot cheaper to fix it themselves!!

 

I read some of he posts in this thread (sorry couldn't go thru the whole thing) an I don't know all the prps and cons of the new MINI DVD Nav System but I like a few new features (i.e. search by ZIP codes )

In defense of MINI On-Board System: First, the cost is $2,000.00 not $2,100.00 (picked up my 2008 convertible last Friday) ,

Second, is one of the easiest on dash systems to use. Its cost is worth the money even with some flaws. All my MINIs have and/or had MINI GPS system and everytime I noticed great imrpovements from the first 2003 one.

My GP doesn't come with GPS so I bougth and installed a Pioneer AVIC -N3
which is very confusing.. and so many mistakes in the directions you won't believe (and I used it for only 2,500 miles). BTW Unit and installation run about $3,000.00.


I respect everyone's opinion and mine (after 5 MINIs and 5 Nav Systems) is:
DO buy MINI On-Board Nav. System is worth every cent.

 

@lastrega,

You need to remember/note that the new 2008 convertibles are still 1st generation MINIs and so they use the older MKIV nav system. Only the new hardtop and Clubman MINIs (which are 2nd generation MINIs) use the newer MOST nav system.

You can look at this in both good and bad ways... The older nav system is MUCH more customizable (i.e. it can be easily hacked) and can be easily upgraded by the user. However, who knows if MINI/BMW will continue to support it now that it is considered "old" (i.e. your brand new MINI has an "old" nav system in it that is most likely in the very last year of its production life cycle). Also, it doesn't have the cool new features of the newer nav system (such as traffic info, etc.). Some see this as good, others see it as bad. I'll leave it up to you to decide.

Also, just as an FYI, the nav system in the 2007 2nd gen MINI's used to be $2,100. However, MINI dropped the price of the system to $2,000 for the 2008 models. The older nav system in your MINI used to sell for (under) $1,600 (that's what I paid for it in my 2005 MCS), but MINI raised the price of it (i.e. the EXACT same system) to $2,000 for the 2008 model year MINIs (I think it was something like $1,700 for the 2007 model convertibles). That's quite a significant price jump for an "old" system that's about to be phased out IMHO (especially considering the newer nav system received a price decrease at the same time).

 

2003 and 2005 MINIs NAV system was $1,700.

On the Clubman (on order) the cost is $2,000. When the Clubman arrives in February I will have the possibility to see the difference between the three versions: as I will have all three MINIs. The 2005 and 2008 NAV is different from 2003 and improved. Coverage for example. So even if the OLD system will phase out I am pretty happy with the new NAV. The 2003 version had limited coverage and if I wanted the West Coast info I had to purchase a separate CD. Perhaps offering a complete US coverage made the price go up.

I was not happy to see $300.00 increase (in my case) but when I was shopping around for the GP in-dash NAV system I realized that MINI price - after all - is still the best.

 

Not True, I have my window sticker sitting right here in front of me and the MSRP of the Nav system in my 2005 MCS was only $1,600. I actually owned/purchased three of them and paid the same price for the nav system in all three MINIs. And... I'm pretty sure that the nav system (especially the really old MKIII CD-based version) started out selling at $1,400 back in 2002/2003). This can easily be looked up over on http://www.Motoringfile.com.

The Clubman's nav system would indeed be $2,000 since it is a 2008 model. If it was available in 2007 (which is was not), then it would have been $2,100 just as the hardtop's was.

BTW, there is no difference whatsoever between the nav system in the 2007/2008 hardtop and the 2008 Clubman. Both cars use the newer MOST-based MINI nav system. Any minor differences that may happen to exist will simply be a difference between firmware versions. The systems themselves are 100% identical.

Also, the only real difference between the 2003 (MKIII) 1st gen nav system and the 2004-2008 (MKIV) version is that it was a CD-based system whereas the 2004-2008 system was/is DVD-based (with a faster processor and updated firmware that supports 3D perspective view, better POI searching capabilities called Destinations+, etc.). Other than that, they're basically the same system from a hardware standpoint (just one version newer). In fact it's a 100% plug-n-play swap to upgrade a MINI's MKIII unit to a newer MKIV unit (clearly indicating that they are pretty much identical)

In fact, the new MOST-based nav system isn't all that much different than the older MKIV version is. Again, it's just a newer unit with newer firmware but it's still based (heavily) on the older MKIV nav system.

It was indeed a bummer to see the $300 price increase (just as much as it was for me to see the $100 price decrease seeing as we just bought a 2007 2nd gen MINI a few months ago). I guess that's just the way it goes though.

 

Or, you can buy the Garmin Nuvi system, from your MINI dealer, and have it mounted on the dash, for something like $300. And, everything works on it, it has a touchscreen, super easy and intuaitive menu system, is upgradable (the OS, the Maps, and the POI's). It also has bluetooth built in, and lots of other stuff.

Now, I hate with a passion, the same passion I hate this POI problem (you know that level of passion!!), to have wires dangling around my dash, external non-oem equipment in the car, .... That just drives me nuts, I'm a neat freek.

So I'm not pushing buying an external device like the Nuvi, but it does raise the question, why is MINI charging 2000 beans for the option?? And don't say it's because of all the other integrated stuff (car options, backup display...), because all of that exists with or without the Nav display, it's just a matter of whether they display it on the Nav LCD screen, or the little radio lcd screen.

It's way overpriced. And then to not support it, and fix things wrong with it, issue upgrades to it, that is down right crime if you ask me.

 

Not to be too picky but I too still have my window sticker for the 2005 conv. and the price is $1,700 as it was in 2003.

 

Need more popcorn!

 

Well, the realistic answer is that ~$2000 seems to be what the market will bear for in-dash optional OEM navigation systems in a wide variety of cars. Doesn't mean I think it's worth that, but that's probably why MINI priced it the way they did.

 

Hmm... That's odd. Maybe you're right and I looked at a wrong option line on the sticker or something (was there anything else that sold for $1,600 on the MINI back in 2005???). Let me go see if I can dig up my other window stickers. I'll be back (with the answer and the popcorn).

 

Just if there are any newbies coming in here and reading this, I thought I would clearly document the problem in a summary with example:

The Navigation system POI db Search problem refresher:

The navigation system has over 6 million POI's (Points of Interest) in it's database. You can search for these POI's by name. BUT, in order to search by name, first the system forces you to select a Category to search in. So you can't just search for a name alone. There are 6 or 7 main categories, like, "Banking and Shopping", "Travel and Leisure".... Then, there are many (about 100), SUB Categories under each of these main categories, and sometimes a 3rd or 4th level of subcategories. Now, once you get to a bottom level category, you can type in the name of the text you wish to search for, Say: "Pindar" (the name of a LI vinyard). You type this in, one letter at a time by pointing at each letter rotating the little joystick and clicking enter. It can take a minute to type in a few letters... So far, seems reasonable enough, right?

Now you hit Search, and the system searches thru the items in the category you have selected. If nothing with that name is found, you get an error message, and are returned to the previous screen with the name (this case "Pindar") blanked out. You now have the option of selecting another category in the current folder, or backing up and going back to the next higher level category and selecting a different categroy from it's sub-category's. And now you start all over again, to type in your name "P - I - N - D - A - R".... one letter at a time... and try searching again.

Now the problem, the data is not organized into the proper categories. In this case, Pindar winery would be found under BANKING AND SHOPPING, then "FOOD and BEVERAGE, then "WINE AND LIQURE STORES". But we only know that now after searching for hours thru more realistic categories like "Leisure", "Attractions".... And we would have to remember 100's of categories, and what they are sub-categories of, in order to make that ok. Since Food and Beverage falls under "Banking and Shopping, that's a problem already, because who would search for food under banking and shopping. Going to a vinyard is certainly not "Banking or shopping", it's not food and beverage (it's really manufacturing), and it's not a wine or liqure store (although it could have one on it's premises). But I digress. That's still not the real problem althought it's already a mess as you can see.

Now it can take, and has taken myself and my wife, along with many other users, hours on end to find a simple POI. Some I never found. Are they in the db? Not sure, and this is where the real problem comes into the play, and why I say, the system is BROKEN:

Lets say you are looking for a store called "Minibird Store". You would first go to the Category you might think you would find it in, then type "MINIBIRD" and hit search. If it didn't find it, you might try another category, and re-type (cause it cleared it on you) "MINIBIRD" and hit search in another category, then another, then another, and you could try all day long, not knowing exactly, whether the store is even in the db, or what category (right or wrong) they might have put it in. So you can search for hours, literally re-typing MINIBIRD and searching. You may be wasting your time, as it might not be in the db. but you have no way of knowing, it might be in there, just in the wrong category as are the LI Vineyards like Pindar.

So it's not bad enough that the data is wrong and organized very poorly (the category arrangements are not very good themselves as you can see from the example), but you also have no chance to just search for something by name with no category.

This basically rendors the POI capabilities of the system completely useless. Althought there are 6 million POI's in the system, you have no chance within reason, most of the time, at actually finding them. So in fact, from our stand point, there are only probably 2 million POI's in the system, that we can reasojably find (like gas stations, which are categorized properly, or MINI service centers. But everything else, it's a pot shot. Misewell open a phone book and start throwing darts at it, cause your basically doing the same thing.

Now THAT, is broken and needs FIXING. And in the year 2007, I find it embarrasing and hard to believe a company the size of BMW would allow it.

I wonder if they can search and find spare parts for all their past vehicles in their SAP software at HQ's? I'm sure there are probably 6 million parts in that db. Think they can search for them in a manner other than some obscure category somebody put them in? Is a bolt holding up the muffler on a 1978 325i found under "Muffler" or is it under "Hardware"??? How fast would THAT get fixed???

 

OK OK got your point.. just different motoring styles..that's all

I bank on line so don't need to search a bank.
I know where to go to buy food ..
I know exactly where the liquor store that carries my favorite champagne is.
In my NAV address book I have my : clients' location, AUTOX sites, Auto Tracks places.

if I am looking for a new place and cannot find it .. I take it as an opportunity to motor a little longer

No butter on my popcorn !!!