So my 02 MC has been at the bmw dealer I bought it from for 2 weeks now, getting a clutch replaced. They're now telling me that the starter has to be replaced because the clutch dying killed the starter. They also said that this is a common problem on the coopers(but not the cooper S)...

I've done some searching, and haven't seen any mention of this. Am I being fed a line here?


thanks

 

That's the first time i've heard that one, and i've been working on cars since before I was old enough to drive.
I'm guessing these are not warranty repairs, ask for the old parts back. As long as it's not warranty, they have to give them to you.
Get the starter tested somewhere else and go from there.

 

Basically, I purchased the car, and 3 days later it died, blown clutch(or so I've been told). After lots of phone calls, the dealer I purchased it from agreed to replace the clutch free of charge if I towed it down there. That was 2 weeks ago(as of tomorrow). They replaced the clutch, then said it was overheating, due to the aux fan not coming on(this never occured prior to it going there). Apparently replacing the fan didn't fix it, so they replaced that. This morning when I called and said I was coming to get the car, they told me this line about the starter going out.

I have a lot of experience in honda motors, but not specifically with the minis. I can't imagine for the life of me how a dead clutch would mess with a starter, unless some how it grenaded, and pieces of it somehow did damage to the starter.

 

As you may know, the only part that has anything to do with the starter is the flywheel.
Did they mention anything about the flywheel teeth being chewed up?

If the clutch disc or pressure plate granaded, you would have known it when it happened, and expected something else to be broke.
The only piece of the starter that's exposed to the clutch assembly is the nose...

... ask for the old starter back, and inspect it yourself.

 

That's exactly why I can't see how this would make any sense at all. There was no mention of any damage to the flywheel, and the car just stopped working, so I have no reason to think the clutch grenaded.


Unfortunately, your image doesn't work(no hotlinking allowed apparently), but assuming the mini is set up exactly like every other motor I've worked on, I know what you mean.

 

Weird, the image shows up fine for me.
Anyway, if you have to foot the bill for the starter, i'd make them prove their explanation of how it died.

 

If this is a MINI you just bought from them, why are you paying for anything?
Unwind the deal, now! (unfit for the purpose intended). Get a lawyer if necessary. You got a POS, they don't have a clue, this is going nowhere but downhill.

 

I'm not paying for anything... they're footing the bill for everything.

At this point, I don't think the car is the issue(as none of these things were problems until they got it), but the people working on it. If it's not ready by tomorrow, I'm taking it somewhere else and sending them the bill, and if it is done by tomorrow, it's going to the local mini dealer to get inspected for anything else they screwed up(and to be sure they actually fixed what they said they fixed).

 

I can't think of a reason the bad clutch screwed up the starter and I've been playing and working on cars for a looong time...

 

Could they have messed up the clutch switch so the car doesn't sense the clutch is down and allow the starter to engage? Find out whether the starter is spinning or not.

 

they said that they had to replace the starter because it was making some horrible noise... didn't mention anything about the car actually not starting.(in fact, it must be starting since they did the clutch, as they said they were having issues with it overheating).

I think it's more likely that there's something weird going on, and the guy is just feeding me a line to try to buy some time.

 

I wouldn't worry about it. I would just let them fix it and go pick it up afterwards. If they're paying for it...well, dealers have done worse things. lol Just be sure to inspect it thoroughly for incompetence (someone dropping a wrench on the hood and leaving a dent, etc.. Once you drive off, you can't prove anything...believe me. Unfortunately, that type of thing seems to run rampant now days.) Do you play sax? ...major in music?

 

I had no problem with them fixing things... up to a point. They've now had the car for 2 weeks, and won't even call me back to tell me when it's supposed to be ready. For example, they said yesterday the car would be ready to pick up this evening... They close in about an hour and a half, and I haven't heard a word. Of the 15+ calls I've made to them, I've recieved 2 calls back.

Every time I talk to them, I'm told it'll be longer, because something else comes up that wasn't a problem when it went in. Stuff like this starter excuse just seems like a load of bull. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if they dropped it off the lift and are waiting for the car to return from the body shop.

Further more, the first time I hear about any of these problems is when they're all ready working on it. There's been no notification of any issues, and certainly no authorization on my part to fix anything beyond the clutch. Don't they have to notify you and get authorization before working on anything?



I do play sax, mainly alto, but a bit of tenor and soprano in there. Not a music major, just have played for many years.

 

oh this is getting better and better...

finally was able to get a hold of the service manager at stevens creek bmw(where the car was purchased from/has been getting serviced)...

apparently they couldn't figure out the problem, so had it taken to Mini of Mountain View... without any sort of notification or approval on my part. The best part is that the service advisor said the car would be ready this evening, and he has yet to notify me to the contrary.

 

just spoke to Mini of Mountain View where the car now is. Says they have the car and have test drove it, and there is a humming/ticking noise coming from the tranny. He also confirmed that there is no correlation between the clutch going bad and the starter needing replacing, confirming the guy at Stevens Creek is full of ****

 

Sounds like Weapons Grade BS to me...

 

If you only had the car for 3 days before these troubles started I would seriously consider backing out of the deal. A clutch going bad, ticking from the transmission? Sounds like the car was abused by the previous owner. Get out while you still can.

 

Just had a nice long chat with the service manager at Stevens Creek, and let him kjnow what a wonderful job the service advisor was doing. He said that the service advisor had just been guessing at potential problems to the noise, and that's why weird things like the starter suddenly "needed replaced".

He said he authorized the mini dealer to do the repairs from this point out and to inspect for any non related issues the car may have and to have them taken care of as well(even though the PPI said it was clean).


So we'll see where things go from here

 

Gosh... I smell something foul.

I would seriously consider backing out of the deal. Most dealerships give you a 30 day back out clause and this would be very reasonable considering you have been without your car for more than 7 times as long as you have owned it!

Good Luck

 

As far as I know, there is only one way that the clutch could mess up the starter. That is if it does not completely disengage. Believe me, you would know! You would have to start it in gear and the starter would be moving the car. Other than that, they are not connected in any way.

If they are replacing it under warranty, then they may be trying to get a free starter. I've heard of dealerships claiming that parts need to be replaced when they don't. They write it up as a warranty part then don't do the work because the part is not broken. They get a free part and then get paid for warranty labor. I know of someone who did that with brakes all the time at one of the dealerships here.

If you are not paying anything out of pocket, then let them do what they want as long as the fix the problem...

Don't let them charge you for the clutch. Try and get them to give you a new tranny if it is clicking. Get as much replaced as you can. If they won't do it, back out of the deal.

They need to replace both the clutch and the tranny, otherwise, you will be screwed in the near future. Transmissions should not make that kind of noise!

Good luck.

 

You know, I really hate to bring it up, but I've read a couple other stories that started out like this. After the clutch and/or flywheel, gets put back together, still having troubles. Turns out the transmission was blown.

Read up real quick on Midland transmissions. Make sure that the transmission is ok before you accept it as "fixed" too.

 

It seems that the starter story I was told was just a load of BS... the service advisor was just making guesses as to what would be making the noise in the tranny, and he thought it might be that. Why he didn't just say that, I don't know.

Right now, it's at Mini of Mountain View with authorization to fix anything that's wrong with it on Steven Creek BMW's tab... I'm not paying for anything.

It's looking more and more like the techs at Stevens Creek BMW just don't know what they're doing, so they've been leading me along trying to figure it out.

I'm going to call Mini of MV here shortly to make sure they know the whole story and to have them inspect for anything done incorrectly.


I have read up on the midland trannies, and that certainly sounds like it could be the case. If so, cool, new tranny for me at no cost.

Is it possible to use the getrag 5 spd from the 05-06 cooper instead of another midlands if it is necessary to replace the tranny?

 

unfortunately, here in California, there is no such clause required by law, unless you purchase a plan from them, and that only allows you to back out for 48 hours

 

You might try asking BRGDragon
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...hlight=midland

He had a transmission fail last fall, and supposedly got a Getrag instead of a Midland. I wouldn't know how to tell them apart. That's the only one I've heard of.

 

Nope, they don't make the Midlands anymore. All you can get is a "remanufactured" (i.e. used) Midlands at no cost.

Apparently not, at least without replacing a number of other expensive components as well. I know I asked this question when the Midlands failed on my '03, and became convinced from input (NAM and dealer) that the answer was no. This is why I now own an '05.

Regardless of what they are able to do for this car, I'd still back out of the deal if you can, and look into a newer MC with the 5-speed Getrag. The extra $ will be worth the peace of mind.

Edit: just saw the post right above mine. Apparently the Getrag switcheroo is possible. I'm curious how much this would cost out of warranty. Maybe the supply of frankenstein Midlands is running out, which would be a good thing for anyone still under warranty.