Canyon run... WOW...
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2nd Gear
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Nuthin but the Cali Valley
i just got back from VCR this morning and this time i actually went on the canyon run... all i can say is wow... I was scared sh*tless 80% of the way, and i thought the canyons i went on were bad, and the funny thing was, i was still going slower than everyone else, i guess it'll all come with time and experience and money of course (brakes/tires). But it was fun and i plan on going again next week, but i don't know if i'm going on that downhill one-way, that killed my brakes... 
4th Gear
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 538
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From: Los Angeles
>>i just got back from VCR this morning and this time i actually went on the canyon run... all i can say is wow... I was scared sh*tless 80% of the way, and i thought the canyons i went on were bad, and the funny thing was, i was still going slower than everyone else, i guess it'll all come with time and experience and money of course (brakes/tires). But it was fun and i plan on going again next week, but i don't know if i'm going on that downhill one-way, that killed my brakes...
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Ahem!!.. You kids shouldn't be racing on the street. take it to the track...
that said, I was nice to finally meet you Amir..
the funny part about that, I bet you were too spooked to notice you were only going 30mph... pretty soon with experience you'll want to be accelerating down the hills like Brit and Ivan does.
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Ahem!!.. You kids shouldn't be racing on the street. take it to the track...
that said, I was nice to finally meet you Amir..
the funny part about that, I bet you were too spooked to notice you were only going 30mph... pretty soon with experience you'll want to be accelerating down the hills like Brit and Ivan does.
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2nd Gear
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Nuthin but the Cali Valley
lol, way to kill my race-high
i was only going 30 on the downhill thing, on stunt road i was going pretty fast (for me, but considering i couldn't see the other minis in front of me i guess it was slow, but i didn't see the yellow one behind me either so i wasn't going that slow ), i guess going up is easier than going down, and i gotta learn to heel toe before i can practice it, where is socal/norcal? santa barbara huh? i'll come i guess, chumash casino here i come
i was only going 30 on the downhill thing, on stunt road i was going pretty fast (for me, but considering i couldn't see the other minis in front of me i guess it was slow, but i didn't see the yellow one behind me either so i wasn't going that slow
), i guess going up is easier than going down, and i gotta learn to heel toe before i can practice it, where is socal/norcal? santa barbara huh? i'll come i guess, chumash casino here i come 
Coordinator :: Motoring Underground Club Forum
Joined: Jan 2004
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From: Encinitas, CA
Yeah, come caravan with us on Saturday. A time hasn't been set yet, but I'm guessing around 9:00AM.
And now, a brief lesson on the Heel & Toe Downshift:
Heel & Toe downshifting makes for much safer, smoother downshifts. First, you'll have to think about how you normally downshift. You stick your foot in the clutch, shift down a gear, and let go of the clutch. As you let go of the clutch, your head probably jerks forward, which means you're shifting weight to the front of the car. This happens because the engine speed drops off abruptly when you push down the clutch. When you re-engage the clutch, the engine speed is really low, and the transmission speed is really high, so in order for them to synch up, the the car needs to slow down to meet the engine speed, and vice versa. *HEAD JERKS FORWARD* If you're braking into a corner, this forward weight shift can destabilize the car and possibly scare the crap out of you.
To resolve this problem, you use Heel & Toe. The name is a bit misleading, as most people don't actually use their heel and/or toe. For our example, the situation is braking to slow down for a turn. Here's the order of operations:
1. Step on the brake with the left side of your right foot.
2. Push in the clutch pedal with your left foot.
3. While moving the shifter to the next lower gear, tilt your right foot to the right to blip the throttle with the right side of your foot, bringing the engine speed back up to match the transmission speed of the lower gear. Work towards doing this while maintaining steady brake pressure.
4. After you've moved to the next lower gear, and while the revs are still up from the throttle blip, release the clutch. If you matched revs correctly, you should be able to release the clutch very quickly, and you shouldn't feel any jerking motion from the car.
Using this technique, you can brake hard while downshifting without destabilizing the car. You don't have to be braking hard to do it. Practice it in a SAFE place, and eventually it'll become second-nature and you'll do it for all of your downshifting. Not only does it smooth out your downshifts, but you wear out your clutch a lot less since it doesn't slip much on a heel and toe downshift.
An easy way to get into it is to just practice blipping the throttle on a downshift WITHOUT braking. This'll help you get a feel for how much you need to punch the throttle to match revs. Most importantly, remember that everyone does it a little bit differently, and you may find that using a wider shoe will help you be more comfortable using both pedals with one foot. I can pull it off with most shoes I own, but I find it a lot easier with the wider ones I always wear to VCR. It's taken me about 2 months to really master it, but now I find it hard to understand how I ever drove without it!
Sorry for the small hijack! DRIVE SAFELY!
And now, a brief lesson on the Heel & Toe Downshift:
Heel & Toe downshifting makes for much safer, smoother downshifts. First, you'll have to think about how you normally downshift. You stick your foot in the clutch, shift down a gear, and let go of the clutch. As you let go of the clutch, your head probably jerks forward, which means you're shifting weight to the front of the car. This happens because the engine speed drops off abruptly when you push down the clutch. When you re-engage the clutch, the engine speed is really low, and the transmission speed is really high, so in order for them to synch up, the the car needs to slow down to meet the engine speed, and vice versa. *HEAD JERKS FORWARD* If you're braking into a corner, this forward weight shift can destabilize the car and possibly scare the crap out of you.
To resolve this problem, you use Heel & Toe. The name is a bit misleading, as most people don't actually use their heel and/or toe. For our example, the situation is braking to slow down for a turn. Here's the order of operations:
1. Step on the brake with the left side of your right foot.
2. Push in the clutch pedal with your left foot.
3. While moving the shifter to the next lower gear, tilt your right foot to the right to blip the throttle with the right side of your foot, bringing the engine speed back up to match the transmission speed of the lower gear. Work towards doing this while maintaining steady brake pressure.
4. After you've moved to the next lower gear, and while the revs are still up from the throttle blip, release the clutch. If you matched revs correctly, you should be able to release the clutch very quickly, and you shouldn't feel any jerking motion from the car.
Using this technique, you can brake hard while downshifting without destabilizing the car. You don't have to be braking hard to do it. Practice it in a SAFE place, and eventually it'll become second-nature and you'll do it for all of your downshifting. Not only does it smooth out your downshifts, but you wear out your clutch a lot less since it doesn't slip much on a heel and toe downshift.
An easy way to get into it is to just practice blipping the throttle on a downshift WITHOUT braking. This'll help you get a feel for how much you need to punch the throttle to match revs. Most importantly, remember that everyone does it a little bit differently, and you may find that using a wider shoe will help you be more comfortable using both pedals with one foot. I can pull it off with most shoes I own, but I find it a lot easier with the wider ones I always wear to VCR. It's taken me about 2 months to really master it, but now I find it hard to understand how I ever drove without it!
Sorry for the small hijack! DRIVE SAFELY!
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2nd Gear
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Nuthin but the Cali Valley
sounds good, could someone tell me that if i were going the same speed as the 3 minis ahead of me (brit, ivan, sam) would my car handle just as well?
basically, was i unable to do it becuase i was just plain scared or was there another reason (i'm sure experience is one thing, but assuming i had as much experience)?
basically, was i unable to do it becuase i was just plain scared or was there another reason (i'm sure experience is one thing, but assuming i had as much experience)?
Coordinator :: Motoring Underground Club Forum
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 222
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From: Encinitas, CA
Yeah, of course you could. The only mods I have on my Cooper S are a MINI Madness CF Cold Air Intake and a B&M Short Shifter. I'm running on 17" S-Lites with 205/45-17 Dunlop SP Sport 9000 DSST run-flat tires.
You'll find that as you gain more experience with cornering, you'll learn to be able to predict what your car will do if you overstep the limit. Right now, you probably won't know what to do if a tire starts slipping, whereas someone with more experience would know exactly how to compensate for losing grip on any of the tires. Just make sure you always drive within your abilities. If you ever feel uncomfortable, slow down!
In canyon driving, the biggest improvements you'll make are knowing when to brake for the turn, just how much speed you need to shed to maintain plenty of grip around the corner, and where to begin accelerating. Unlike a race track, the line you take around a corner is fixed, so there's no improvement to be made there.
Even though it seems like we're going really fast, we're not driving at the limit. Again, I can't stress this enough: Save the 10/10ths driving for the race track! Make sure you leave your DSC or ASC+T on in the canyons if you're not completely familiar with you car's handling characteristics. It will compensate for oversteer (loss of grip in the rear tires) and understeer (loss of grip in the front tires) and keep you in your intended line, within reason.
You'll find that as you gain more experience with cornering, you'll learn to be able to predict what your car will do if you overstep the limit. Right now, you probably won't know what to do if a tire starts slipping, whereas someone with more experience would know exactly how to compensate for losing grip on any of the tires. Just make sure you always drive within your abilities. If you ever feel uncomfortable, slow down!
In canyon driving, the biggest improvements you'll make are knowing when to brake for the turn, just how much speed you need to shed to maintain plenty of grip around the corner, and where to begin accelerating. Unlike a race track, the line you take around a corner is fixed, so there's no improvement to be made there.
Even though it seems like we're going really fast, we're not driving at the limit. Again, I can't stress this enough: Save the 10/10ths driving for the race track! Make sure you leave your DSC or ASC+T on in the canyons if you're not completely familiar with you car's handling characteristics. It will compensate for oversteer (loss of grip in the rear tires) and understeer (loss of grip in the front tires) and keep you in your intended line, within reason.
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I have the Heel and Toe tutorial here:
http://www.littlemini.us/technical/heelandtoe/index.asp
which has links to the full article. It's a good read.
Also, I drove once with Idiaz. I've got the video to prove it, LOL. Anyhow, I agree 100% with Idiaz. Don't drive beyond your comfort level, and know your limits. When I took Tuna Canyon for the first time, there is one curve that's protected on the outside by a concrete guardrail. If you aren't careful and you take a turn a little bit on the wide side, you'll run straight into this, and it won't be pretty, as you'll drop off the canyon.
I had one particularly hairy experience on this same canyon. I was braking pretty hard, and turning, and somehow, unintentionally, managed to twist the car, so that the rear felt like it was fishtailing as I came out of the turn. As Idiaz told me later, this is known as Trail Breaking, and people do it all the time, but intentionally on the track. It definitely made my heart jump the first time I felt it!
I've got an MC with 16" run flats that are pretty worn. They squeal like mad all the time, and I like to push the tires when I feel safe enough to do so. Whether it's on the track or on the canyon, think about what you are doing, and about the safety of others, and definitely don't let others push you beyond your limits when you're on a run. If you feel like you're going too fast, step aside, and let them pass, don't create any more danger by making the faster ones try to pass you.
Not that I'm super experienced to be talking about this, but I do know that I can keep up pretty well with MCS's and Porsches in my MC on the twisties--I won't go so far as to say I can keep up with Peter!! But atleast I have fun trying!
http://www.littlemini.us/technical/heelandtoe/index.asp
which has links to the full article. It's a good read.
Also, I drove once with Idiaz. I've got the video to prove it, LOL. Anyhow, I agree 100% with Idiaz. Don't drive beyond your comfort level, and know your limits. When I took Tuna Canyon for the first time, there is one curve that's protected on the outside by a concrete guardrail. If you aren't careful and you take a turn a little bit on the wide side, you'll run straight into this, and it won't be pretty, as you'll drop off the canyon.
I had one particularly hairy experience on this same canyon. I was braking pretty hard, and turning, and somehow, unintentionally, managed to twist the car, so that the rear felt like it was fishtailing as I came out of the turn. As Idiaz told me later, this is known as Trail Breaking, and people do it all the time, but intentionally on the track. It definitely made my heart jump the first time I felt it!
I've got an MC with 16" run flats that are pretty worn. They squeal like mad all the time, and I like to push the tires when I feel safe enough to do so. Whether it's on the track or on the canyon, think about what you are doing, and about the safety of others, and definitely don't let others push you beyond your limits when you're on a run. If you feel like you're going too fast, step aside, and let them pass, don't create any more danger by making the faster ones try to pass you.
Not that I'm super experienced to be talking about this, but I do know that I can keep up pretty well with MCS's and Porsches in my MC on the twisties--I won't go so far as to say I can keep up with Peter!! But atleast I have fun trying!
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