Dear Miniacs,

I'm teaming up with the Novice Chief in the New England Region of the SCCA, with the aim of further improving the experience of those special souls who decide to show up and try the sport of Autocross.

Will you share your thoughts with me? I'd be most grateful...

Perhaps I should divide this into multiple topics, but I don't want to take up too much space or make my contributors click too much, so I'm staying here with this conversation - although there is more than one part to this I think...

One part is the experience of that FIRST DAY.
? What makes a GREAT first day ?

Another part is the COURSEWALK.
? What makes a good coursewalk for a beginner?

And hopefully we should add in INSTRUCTION.
? What are the best approaches to instruction you've experienced?

There are other parts - not having to do with cars - that are also important, because if I admit this is about having fun, the social aspect of the experience matters a lot. My experience on the first day felt a little like wandering in to a family party where I knew no-one!

I'd love to hear anyone's views on this - it has been well over a decade since I went through the passage of beginning, and I need to think about all this afresh.

Kind regards,

Charlie

 

1. would some folks like a buddy on their first day?

I'm of two minds about this - and what exactly I mean by a "buddy" is a little unclear. The essence of it is just someone who would let you ride in their car a run or two, perhaps right shotgun in your car and offer a little instruction, and just be a lightning rod for questions and advice during an event.

The problem with this is span of control - we can have as many as 30 rookies show up at an event, and 10-15 is quite routine. I reckon I could "buddy" with up to two folks, but much more than that would be pushing it.

So this might not scale too well... But perhaps only a few novices would even be interested?

 

2. During the coursewalk, I think less is more.

The two key points I try and make during a novice walkthrough on the course are (1) only a few cones matter, the trick is deciding in advance which ones they are, and (2) looking ahead is hands down the most important speed secret there is.

I've seen, heard, and participated in many coursewalks, and I reckon that someone who tries to teach novices the correct racing line, calls out braking points, and generally offers detailed (and often damned good) advice is running the risk of information overflow.

So I generally think less is more.

 

3. I've had many instructors - both Evo and not, and many of them damned good drivers including several National Champions.

But not everyone can do a good job coaching novices, so what's the difference?

I may be damned wrong, but I'm not a shouter, and often don't speak during a run (except perhaps to point should someone have trouble finding the course).

What I do is to ask the driver (when we've parked) to remember the run and to find one thing that went well and one thing that did not. Most times I'll agree, but no matter how we get there what I try and do is offer only ONE piece of advice per run.

Here again, I just think less is more.

Or perhaps my tiny pea-like brain is special in some way, and folks are being under-served?

 

-- so there is one thought on each of the three topics as a conversation starter. Please take this in any direction you want, and feel free to disagree with me.

If I thought I had the answers I would not be asking.

All the best,

Charlie

 

I don't know what makes a great first day, I wasn't that impressed with my first day. (see: https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...autocross.html ).
We stuck with it and eventually found out it was fun in its own way, but you may well have lost us after that first autocross.

 

The BMW club does buddies for first timers, someone contacts you in advance and guides you through the arcane aspects of the day. The only problem with that was it wasn't my first time, first time with the BMW club, but not first overall. It was a bit more than I wanted at the time.

The other one was they wanted someone to ride with you until they thought you were safe to run on your own. I wanted to have a go on my own at first. I did persuade them to let me run solo first, and then got checked out on the second run.

Nothing like that in the SCCA though. Recently the local SCCA has decided to appoint a "Novice Form/info handler", that's someone who will hand out the required forms and answer the questions from the novices. That saves them clogging up the reg line.

 

Charlie,
I have been doing this a little while, for a short enough time that I still remember my first times out. With that I noticed one thing with novices: those who do well, really enjoy it and tend to come back. Those who don't do well don't come back. It may surprise you, but I think that "doing well" is not defined by their time but by their ability to just make it through the course and then getting a time. There is nothing more frustrating than not being able to figure out the course. Of course there are those who come and just want to show off their Hp.

There are a few things I do with a novice...1) impress upon them to drive slowly the first few times out so they can read the course without much else to do. A lot of times the slower they are, the quicker they run the course. 2) In the course walk, have them squat down in various places and look at the course so they see the sea of cones the way they will when they are in their car. 3) explain about the apex and it is likely not where the cone is; that would be too easy. 4) impress upon them to enjoy themselves. It is all about the fun of doing something different with their car. It is unlikely that they will be FTD, so why not sit back and relax and have fun.

Hope that fits into your thinking.

 

I really don't know what would make a good novice course walk. I lead one once, and it was the experienced guy who tagged along with his girlfriend who said he learnt something. I may have pitched it too high. My problem with the course first time, was just finishing, I got really confused by a loop.

As for instructors, I've never had an instructor during a competition, there's too much to think about. Schools have been very helpful, its the doing repetatively rather than instruction which really helps.

 

Thanks gents - all your observations are helpful to me. In particular I think that completing the course without getting lost is really important (and driving slowly enough to accomplish that is a good idea).

I wonder if it might be worth offering two laps of novice course walk? Or would that just wear out everyone's feet?

NER does registration in advance - no walk in permitted. That allows our Registrar to get information out to all participants well in advance which seems to help.

Among the other thoughts your contributions have sparked, I am mindful that I've a friend or two at the BMWCCA in Mass, and perhaps they could comment on what has been tried. I didn't know that some branches have a notion of the buddy system.

Kind regards,

Charlie

 

Dear Btwyx - if I read correctly the two key bummers were (1) too few runs, and (2) frustration over finding the course given the complicated layout. Anything else I missed that made your day less than entertaining?

Thanks for your help,

Charlie

 

I probably walk the course 2, 3 maybe 4 times...a novice could surely walk it twice.

 

BEFORE: I was lost on my first autocross outing. The thing that happened that helped me feel comfortable is to have someone come up to me and introduce themselves and offer to help. I didn't know what I needed, but the person that approached made small talk and made a connection. From there I was able to express my apprehensions and excitement at trying something new. Having help making it through registration, tech and a couple of course walks were great.
DURING: Almost as important as that was the time he spent with me during the day. Not constant, but checking in, answering questions, making suggestions, making sure I was comfortable with my work assignment, introducing me to others in my class. It is nice to feel a part of the group and not just standing around.
RESULTS: first timers rarely do very well. OR Region has a "Challenge" class of all first year novices. This helps keep the competition near the same level. I might suggest grouping all first timers together also and PAX them. A few of the first-timers will get the idea "I might not be too bad at this". Then move them to novice group the next time.
FOLLOW-UP: Traded email address with my new friend. He sent me a link to results and pointed out how I improved though the runs. He emailed before the next event to invite me out again. This one email may have been the single most important thing that brought me back.

 

I'm not really sure why that first day didn't capture my interest that well. My quote at the time was "a lot of effort for little reward". I was comparing the amount of driving to a track day, you don't get much. I wouldn't really say I was frustrated over the course, it did cause me problems, so actually finding my way was a challenge, but I managed it.

Now when describing an autocross, I'll say its "only 4 minutes of driving, but they're the most intense 4 minutes of your life". At that first event it never got to be so intense, I couldn't yet go flat out and still finish.

 

First Day
The first autocross is really tough on a novice. I've been organizing for a local club for a few years now and we talk regularly on how we can get people to come back. Basically... provided the people have the spare time and money why do they not continue to autocross? The overall experience on the first day is tough on a lot of people I think partly because of egos. They are coming out thinking they are going to do really well and dominate because of all their "sweet mods" and their "mad driving skillz". Then they get stomped by some guy in a stock miata/mini. It's a tough pill to swallow when you finish the day with no timed runs because of off-courses or finish at the bottom of the pack. Obviously I can't use it as a blanket statement but I think there is a fair amount of people who don't come back because they don't think they did very well. I try to emphasize when I talk to people how important it is to start off slow and make sure you know the course and gradually get faster. And how important seat time is and how they shouldn't expect to be fast right out of the gate.

Something our club does which I've never seen done anywhere else is we have a mandatory "novice meeting" after the regular drivers meeting. The regular drivers meeting is shorter so the experienced people don't have to stand around for extra time listening to me blab on about stuff they've heard a million times before. At the novice meeting we go over cone penalties, red flag situations, etc. They have a chance to ask questions in a much smaller group setting and I think people feel less silly holding up 20 people to ask a question then they do 120 people. Following the novice meeting we do the novice course walk where we generally get a bunch more questions. We also don't put the novices in the first run group of the day so typically after the novice course walk we have time to stand around and answer even more questions.

Course Walk
I've led many course walks and participated in a bunch as well. I think the biggest mistake the people leading the course walks do is to overload the participants with information. If people are following on the novice-walk to try to learn all the "secrets of going fast" then they're not there for a novice walk... they're there for a school... and that's a different day. What I try to do in the novice walk is cover most importantly the beginning and the end. Show them how to stage their cars and tell them what's going to happen when they get to the start line. Then when we get to the finish emphasize greatly to SLOW DOWN and tell them where they need to be driving to. All the stuff in between is just having fun. I discuss briefly how to read the course and cover gates, pointer cones, etc. Then we just walk the course so they have an idea of where it goes. There is a bunch of information a newbie has to process and going into braking points, apex points, etc just overly complicates the course walk for a first-timer.

Instruction
Instruction is all over the place depending on which club you run with. The club I organize with we heavily encourage ride alongs because getting feedback is hands down the best way to get faster. The important thing to remember when instructing in an informal setting where they only have a few runs is to not overload them with info. I'll ride with them and then give one or two places where I think they're leaving the most time on the table. Then I'll ride with them again and if they're not correcting what I told them to correct I'll start yelling at them while they're driving. If they're capable of making corrections mid-run while I'm talking to them then I'll continue to talk. If they completely ignore me then I shut up. In a school setting it's a little different since you're doing lots and lots of runs so there is lots of time to discuss more stuff.

By far I think the most important tip is to look ahead. If you can get that down many of the other things will follow naturally like proper braking points, racing line, appropriate throttle application, etc. It's a tough thing to master though because so many people thinking they're looking ahead when they're not. One of the drills we did at an Evo Phase 2 school I did was we had to tell the instructor where we were looking. "slalom, 90 deg right, sweeper, etc". If we weren't looking far enough ahead the instructor would yell "next" forcing us to move our eyes to the next element.

 

nice thread. there's a lot to say but just to briefly chime in a couple things:

- for novices, a lot of ride alongs, people talking, etc. can make/break a first day IMO. not everyone is outgoing, so if they just come and go to one of these events, it can be a very "lonely" sport
- we line our courses in flour/something white, makes the course so much easier to see, especially for novices

 

+1 to all of this. A lot of good stuff here.

Although, about ride-alongs - this might be a touchy subject for a lot of people. If you force it, them may feel like you are treating a person like child. On the other hand it can be helpful. Mostly our group doesn't do ride alongs until asked, or that there is a problem with a driver.

A good case in point is a Cobra driver that has been coming lately to our events. He was smart enough to not over drive the car but still was frustrated. When he expressed displeasure with his driving we (other drivers) suggested he take a ride with one of the better drivers (also an instructor). He was impressed enough that he asked the instructor to ride with him which ended with some instruction/advice. The end of the day he felt better about what he was doing. I would expect, however, if he was forced to have a ride-along, he would have never come back after the first day. He had to figure that one out on his own (after about 3 events).

 

They do that here as well.

 

Folks I turned my back on this thread as I've had a heck of a work week down here in New Jersey, and now that I look I am really delighted and grateful for all your contributions.

Mini2na, v10climber, kyoo, eddie07s - thanks for stopping by and thank you for your thoughts and experience.

This sort of conversation is just what I had hoped for.

All the best,

Charlie

 

Great thread!

When you go to autox just go to have fun, thats what i did and i head a great time!