>>I hope you all understand my point. I just want the forums to be useful information, not just the same things over and over, especially when some of the posters have already seen the answer.

I think this is an excellent point. As the audience and enthusiasm for the MINIs has grown, the signal-to-noise ratio of postings in general has declined.

I suggest a set of moderated, non-open, closed forums for particular postings that moderators find useful enough to separate from the free-for-all din.

 

i think if anything we should have a "newbie" forum!
that makes the most sense!

 

Maybe we could just get more active with stickying a post to the top of each forum with links to particularly noteworthy posts. This is what Randy is already doing in Performance Mods with the how-tos.

 

>>i think if anything we should have a "newbie" forum!
>>that makes the most sense!

Kind of like the bunny slope for skiing?

 

>>>>i think if anything we should have a "newbie" forum!
>>>>that makes the most sense!
>>
>>Kind of like the bunny slope for skiing?


hey Chris, maybe even a special forum for one handed typists
btw: how's the hand?

 

I don't like the newbie forum idea.

My experience is that they don't work too well because the regular users don't venture in there. So it's just new users talking to other new users. That doesn't help elevate the level of the forum. I'd hope that we all have a little patience with the new posters AND we should consider highlighting more heavily covered posts through a single locked post at the top of each forum. That's the way I'd do it anyway.

 

dave.
i can understand what you're thinking.
point well taken!

 

>>hey Chris, maybe even a special forum for one handed typists Sympathy points don't translate into dates!

Anyway I was just joking around; I don't actually think that a newbie forum would serve any useful purpose.

 

I think thats a good idea Dave. Most people, like myself, haven't noticed the small search function for the forum. Locking them at the top is the only way.

 

I've been thinking about this question today along with all the issues we've had over the last several days of people posting for the sake of posting. A couple of things I would like to note:

1) There is no reward for changing gears due to post counts so don't post unless you have something useful to comment on or add to the site
2) If you are new to the site please read the Search how-to thread that will be stickied to the top of all the non-regional forums (Thanks to RandyBMC for writing this up) before you post. The site has been around one year now and there is lots of valuable information archived in the forums. Please spend a little time searching for what you are interested in before starting a new thread.
3) If you are a "seasoned" site visitor, please take the time help educate the new visitors in a constructive way
4) If you are new visitor, pay attention to what the old-timers are trying to help you with so that you can, one day, help others
5) Moderators are here to insure that things don't get out of hand. The intent is to provide guidance, keep discussions going in the same general direction, and insure that everyone abides by the Site Guidelines. Moderators are not here to monitor every post. Post responsibly.
6) Have an issue with someone? Get it off the boards.

As for "grain from the chaff" I am starting work on migrating to a new forum software package that should provide lots of great new features for the site and alleviate many of the problems we have come to know all too well with the current software. This migration will take some time so please be patient. In the meantime I've noticed a high-degree of noise in the forums lately. Given this I've considered when we get to the new software platform to implement something like a "Did you find this post useful?" type of approach to forums. Then we'll have a new metric per user...true signal to noise calculations. Personally I don't see value added to the site by doing this. I would prefer that everyone step up and fill the forums with on-topic questions, new information, and new found solutions.

Thanks for your ear(s). Now back to my regularly scheduled programming (for the site).

Mark

 

^^^^^^ There are lots of good thoughts in Mark's post. ^^^^^^

 

Will do...I am tired of looking through the MCO Pulse and seeing nonsense...have I been part of that nonsense, maybe, but it is stopping now. From now on it will only regard the ON-TOPIC post!

 

>>..... In the meantime I've noticed a high-degree of noise in the forums lately. Given this I've considered when we get to the new software platform to implement something like a "Did you find this post useful?" type of approach to forums. Then we'll have a new metric per user...true signal to noise calculations. Personally I don't see value added to the site by doing this. I would prefer that everyone step up and fill the forums with on-topic questions, new information, and new found solutions.
>>


Mark, I'm having a hard time understanding your point here. I agree with your idea about not wanting to impliment a "vote per thread" poll. I feel that doing so is a step in the wrong direction; it is too psychologically critical and not constructive. What is your exact definition of "signal to noise" in a Forum context?

Keep in mind that it is difficult to mold a Forum into an ideal culture; its' behavior are the personalities of its' members and their reactions to one another. Disregarding the usual drama in O.T. and some rouge class-clowns, I uphold my initial perception that this forum is the best combination of entertainment and technical information to date!

Regards,
Ryan

 

Encore Encore!!! Well said Ryephile!!!

 

Mark,

When a new member signs on, an automatic email is generated with the member's new password. May I suggest that a simple "Beginners Guide" could be added to that email?

This could be something as simple as, to quote from your post above, "The site has been around one year now and there is lots of valuable information archived in the forums. Please spend a little time searching for what you are interested in before starting a new thread." That statement followed by a clear explaination of the difference between the big "Search" at the top and the "Search" above each forum page would probably solve 90% of the issues that foster a thread like this. I know when I was a beginner here on MCO, the "Search vs. Search" explaination alone would have saved me a good amount of time and frustration.

Of course the Beginner's Guide could include more, such as the rest of the points you made above; but it shouldn't be so long that most wouldn't bother reading it (like the actual Site Guidelines). How about a top ten list? "Mark's Top Ten Hints at Getting the Most out of MINI COOPER ONLINE".

I think including it in the email with the password is key, that way you don't have to hope a newbie finds the information once they've logged onto the site.

Just my $0.02

Thanks,

James

 

>>Mark, I'm having a hard time understanding your point here. I agree with your idea about not wanting to impliment a "vote per thread" poll. I feel that doing so is a step in the wrong direction; it is too psychologically critical and not constructive. What is your exact definition of "signal to noise" in a Forum context?

Ryan,

Thanks for the feedback. Signal to noise is effectively my term for posts to a thread that don't necessarilary contribute to the usefulness of the thread. In some cases this has been posting for the sake of posting. Lots of noise, no utility to the rest of the membership. I have always wanted to have MCO be a friendly, open discussion area that, more often than not, is focused on the MINI and sharing information on it. In the last week we've had to deal with several cases of irresponsible posting and the moderators as a whole have spent many hours of their time trying to clean this up.

>>
>>Keep in mind that it is difficult to mold a Forum into an ideal culture; its' behavior are the personalities of its' members and their reactions to one another. Disregarding the usual drama in O.T. and some rouge class-clowns, I uphold my initial perception that this forum is the best combination of entertainment and technical information to date!

I'm not looking for an ideal culture for each of the forums but there must be limits posed by the membership what is acceptable for that particular forum. I feel that everyone on the site has worked very hard over the course of the last year to create a very friendly culture on the site...one that welcomes new members and helps them get up to speed and provides guidance to user's when they get out of line (in a constructive, non-threatening way). In the case of the forums I feel that it is everyone's best interest to participate in keeping them on track (upholding your initial perception that the forums are the best combination you've found).

Thanks again for your thoughts

Mark

>>
>>Regards,
>>Ryan

 

This is an excellent idea! Given that I'm in the middle of a couple fires at the moment would someone be willing to assist in piecing this together? If so, feel free to email me with an outline of what you would recommend including and I'll handle the programmatic side of getting it implemented. Thanks!

Mark

>>Mark,
>>
>>When a new member signs on, an automatic email is generated with the member's new password. May I suggest that a simple "Beginners Guide" could be added to that email?
>>
>>This could be something as simple as, to quote from your post above, "The site has been around one year now and there is lots of valuable information archived in the forums. Please spend a little time searching for what you are interested in before starting a new thread." That statement followed by a clear explaination of the difference between the big "Search" at the top and the "Search" above each forum page would probably solve 90% of the issues that foster a thread like this. I know when I was a beginner here on MCO, the "Search vs. Search" explaination alone would have saved me a good amount of time and frustration.
>>
>>Of course the Beginner's Guide could include more, such as the rest of the points you made above; but it shouldn't be so long that most wouldn't bother reading it (like the actual Site Guidelines). How about a top ten list? "Mark's Top Ten Hints at Getting the Most out of MINI COOPER ONLINE".
>>
>>I think including it in the email with the password is key, that way you don't have to hope a newbie finds the information once they've logged onto the site.
>>
>>Just my $0.02
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>James

 

>>When a new member signs on, an automatic email is generated with the member's new password. May I suggest that a simple "Beginners Guide" could be added to that email?<<

Yes! How has this not been thought of before?! Seems like it was staring us right in the face. Great suggestion.

 

Just to mention something that I am sure you alll already know. There is a relatively finite amount of things to discuss in regards to any one subject. By chastising the newer members for asking questions or posting topics that may have been already covered, at some time we will reach a point where there really "isn't anything new under the sun". I agree that some subject matter may get beaten to death but, to say "I'm sick of all the drivel on the pulse" or some such statement debasing a member leads me to think that you may be "eliting" (if that's a word) yourself out of a forum for our hobby. When you get to the point where everyone knows everything about each subject what will you want to continue to discuss? Current events? I also agree that we tend to ramble in the off topic venue,but So What. If they bother you, don't read them. I think rehashing some subjects should be tolerated by the senior members,if for nothing else to encourage new users to become / stay involved in this website (obsession). I really enjoy this forum. I am also a member of a few other forums as well. I find the MINI crowd to be a lot less tolerant of other's perceived shortcomings than I would have expected.

 

iDEALLY, EVERYONE WOULD ALWAYS post on topic, and would never forget to release the CAP LOCKS. That is impossible in my experience, so since everything is complex, we'll try... lots of stuff.

I guess what I'm really after is an index. I know there is great information here about most everything, but finding that one particular posting, the one about a Quaife install complete with pictures (or was that the "other" site), can be tough. Search works, but actually finding something in particular... we can navigate via chronology, but over time, that doesn't work too well either.

The scoring idea seems like a simple way to address the issue. One could get fancier, say key word or phrase association (somehow), but a numeric score is a good start.

I'm all for it! At least until someone with dedication and lots of time writes "The Idiots Guide to All The Useful Information on the Web About MINIs", complete with direct URLs.

BTW, Mark, and everyone else who contributes, thank you very much. I don't know you, but we obviously share interests, and I very much appreciate your good work.

 

I made this graphic up to help explain the three different search functions on MCO. I hope this helps show you where and what each one is for.



_________________
cranes folded: 670
to go: 330
YahooIM: denvermini

 

Dave, if I could add one thing to this excellent discussion, it would be to note that the MCO interface isn't particularly conducive for those users so-inclined to search. For the newbie, the "news articles" search is perhaps the ONLY search feature apparent. Your graphic helps a lot, but it no doubt will get lost in the chaff once this thread disappears from the Pulse.

Mark, hopefully in the new site software the search THREADS function will be more obvious. (IMO, it's none-too-obvious over on MINI2 either...so no big advantage over there).

 

Search results with a preview sure would be useful. If you could see the first three lines of a post, that would make it easier to figure out if the post has new information, or is a "me too!" post.

Other forums allow for responses to have different titles, that might help too.

On a related note, there have been times when I'd like to be able to edit in a correction, or just delete altogether, for some particular post. We have Create and Retrieve, now we just need Update and Destroy (yes, I like CRUD).

 

Ideas that I think could help is:

1) allow a MCO pulse that is configurable so you can select which forums you want to see in pulse.
2) do not do a sticky threads - as they get too many half of the first page of a forum is nothing but stickies. Instead create a forum dedicated to sticky type topics....maybe make a different page for this on the website - sorta FYI Pages.
3) the new forum software will really help in several ways...say there is someone you are annoyed with and don't want to see their posts - you can block them so when your logged in you don't see their posts...additionally the support for email replies to posts you have made to notify you someone replied with greatly help.
4) I agree a newbie forum prolly wouldn't fly - but a forum of containing archived threads that are very useful would help...but only allow moderators to post in there....sorta fits in with the #2 idea...a newbie guide.
5) better education....in the email that gets sent to new forum members really spell out some of the features like search, etc.