Perfectly stated from a great source.
Thank you.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy@ross-tech.com
Is it coincidence that the people asking questions appear to be among the more technically astute members on the forum (whether they got to be astute through book learning or school of hard knocks or both)?


Show me the numbers...:smile:


Standards apply to everyone...right?

 

Sid, I don't think G-bear was taking any "side" - just expressing irony.

 

I understand that...just illustrating a little irony myself:smile:

 

Irony applies to everyone as well.

Marty

 

1) Don't repeat the same thing over and over. Once, maybe twice, but leave it at that.

2) Relize that people do change thier mind. If you want to point this out fine, just keep #1 in mind.

3) Be polite.

4) Be willing to agree to disagree.

5) Try to keep the arguments about performance gains based on real world phenomina (like power, pressure, chemichal and mechanica energy, thermodynamics, etc).

6) Keep claims realistic (Hay M7, I still thing the AGS is a sound idea, but optimzed flow paths are far from the "revolutionary" design concepts that were claimed), and try to stay away from global, soft claims.

7) The hardest is to stop the "beating a dead horse" tendancies when we as posters aren't happy with the response we get. See #1


I must say that when I get in a vendor face, it's because of the lack of science behind the claims made about products (for those that are curious, I got all over Alta for just quoting weight savings with out any consideration of moment of inertia when implying the benefit of lightened crank pullies) or the loose marketing claims (M7s "revolutionary" design in the AGS). But in all these cases I tried to stay out of "rant mode".

Anyway, if we all just stay polite, on topic and off personal attacks, things should work out nicely.
Matt

 

Pumping irony is a big part of my daily intarweb workout regimen.

 

Good points made by all. It's been real.

 

Andy, my contention with you was not about your assertions. It was about the fact that you didn't have the respect to leave my thread alone when your points has already been well established. We need your watchfulness but please...lets just not be sadistic about it. Peace:smile:

 

I come to NAM when I want to know what the 'good stuff' is before I go bolting it to my car. This forum and it's members are by far the most fair-minded, helpful and knowledgeable of any similar forum I frequent. My only issue ends up being those times where a topic gets beaten to death once all the cards have fallen. That only breeds hostility and ill will. Every vendor has their own established style on the board. I've learned to work around this and with the help of others' questions and comments get to the raw 'numbers' if you will. Some members have their own way as well, and even though I might not always agree with their methods, they are nonetheless contributing folk that 'give back' to the community as a whole. Some have been pilloried for their actions and banned; to me that lowers the knowledge base around here.

This sort of thing is bound to happened given the passionate nature of a lot of the people at the center of this issue. These people are not trolls, they have plenty of backgrounds in this realm and know how to make good gains in power. Problem is, there are many different approaches to this, and that tends to form camps and schools of thought. Conflict is a given. But as I said before, this group as a whole tends to be the most accepting of differences despite the conficts. I dont want to see that change.

 

I agree with you Greatbear. There is a fine line between providing information and providing attitude. I believe those who have been banned crossed that line once too many. I think all we're asking here is that there be a little prudent with the attitude which will only breed contempt.

 

Yes, and this goes both ways. People saying "It's the best and you can't prove it's not" repeatedly are no better (IMO worse) than those doing the opposite. One necessitates the other in equal measure.

The '205HP recipe' thread is a classic example. A well intentioned poster creates a recipe that may or may not do what is claimed, and presents it as fact. When asked for a basis, he gets bent and claims he's being attacked and that conjecture should be taken as fact because "he's sure".

 

I'm sure that there will always be at least 2 ways to do anything.I can think of many weights of hammers to drive a nail

 

and many here forget the logical law discovered by the greeks: the onus of proof is on he who asserts the positive. if YOU claim X makes Y horsepower, it's up to YOU to give evidence or others then have the logical right to dismiss your claim.