A BMW lawyer was getting out of his Mercedes when a car came speeding along and ripped the door off the car. When the police arrived the man was jumping
up and down and screaming about his car door being damaged.
The officer gets out and says, "You BMW lawyers are so materialistic, you are so mad about the car being damaged that you didn't even notice that
your arm has been ripped off too".

The lawyer looks down at his arm and says, "Oh my God! Where's my Rolex?"

 

>>so, is BMW NA complaining about the use of "MINI", because they don't have a right to do anything about "Mini", right?

My understanding of trademark law (its gotten a lot better over the last 6 months) is that there is no distinction between MINI and Mini.

Here are the trademark serial numbers of the marks that BMW has filed with the US Trademark office. You can see the full filings by going HERE, enter the serial number below and select "Serial number" for the field before hitting submit query.

Serial number
-------------
76975617 - This is for a host of MINI-logo'd products (pens, clothing, etc.)
76412371 - This is for "automobiles and structure parts therefore" and was
filed on May 14, 2002 (two months after the launch of our site) and
published for opposition on May 13, 2003. It appears to be concerned only
with the word MINI
75257622 - This is for a host of MINI-logo'd products (the logo appears to
be the logo of the classic Mini rather than the new MINI). This was
published for opposition March 11, 2003. Note the disclaimer as well.


Based on these, the filing relative to the word MINI was filed after MCO was launched.

Mark

 

Yes you own the site, I don't think tehy can strong arm you out of yoru ownership of the site.. maybe whats posted on it but teh ownership is yours, at least thats how it used to be the gov. may have changed the law on that.

I deeply regret MINI doign this to you. I will file my own petition through there own site, and call as often as possible. hwo abtou MINEEKOOPERONLINE.com or jsut say taht MINI is a adjective of a trademark you own called cooper a short little bulldog mascot...

anyway, mini read and responds to this site I think it is ridculus that they want tio clsoe down what I think is teh best mini csite out there.. Mini needs to wise up liek lucas arts did and jsut accept teh fan base, for better ofr worse... goo luck with ou litigation we hope we cna coem back to MINICOOPERONLINE, over and over again.

 

Just sent this email to mini usa cust.relations....

'Customer.Relations@bmwna.com'

Thank you so much for messing with a very informative site,and thanks to that club,people are getting to know your products,as far as I know,hundreds of possible customers are having second thoughts about buying your products,I know I am...I am seriously cosidering cancelling my order for a '04 model.That's what happens when a big company like yours,wants all the credit to themselves...I guess an american car,is in my "next to do things"...Thank you again for lowering my expectations about your company.I guess I will support my economy ,by buying AMERICAN!!...shame on you!

 

Good luck Mark. M2 doesn't seem to be threatened right now, but MCO being hurt damages us all.

 

I took it to the Owners Lounge message board, with a link to this thread.

I wonder how long they'll leave it up?

Anyone want to run a "office pool"?

 

Well I placed a post to Consumer Reports, I hope that they take an interest in this.

 

OK; count me in. I just spoke to 866 ASKMINI. I explained that I spent hours online reading MCO before taking the plunge and placing an order. Jason at ASKMINI told me that "we are tallying comments on both sides of this issue (as if they are getting comments on the pro-BMW/MINI side) and passing them along to our manager."

His handling of the call was very professional and courteous. Consistent with what I've encountered before.

He also indicated it is a relatively new issue for them; I told him how many comments have been posted online in less than a day.

Keep the calls coming!

 

I wrote my letter... I am so mad right now... This is totally ridiculous!!

My dad no longer has interest in buying a MINI, and needless to say, I won't be buying my MCS this coming year.

 

Everyone,
I wanted to clarify that BMW has not requested that I shut the site down. They wanted me intially to stop using the term MINI Cooper in the domain name as well as our original logo. The logo we have changed now only the name remains. Throughout this process I have submitted numerous possible names and have been given indication (through their suggestions) that the use of MINI would be acceptable in a domain name. Only in the last few weeks did we learn of their overall position in attempting to prevent domains and businesses from using MINI in the name.

Just wanted to clarify. Thanks

Mark

>>Dear Sirs,
>>
>>I am very distressed by an attempt from BMW/MINI to disband the MINI Cooper enthusiasts web site: https://www.northamericanmotoring.com.
>>This site has generated untold enthusiasm for more that 9,000 MINI owners and enthusiasts. It was because of the information and enthusiasm of existing owners on this site that prompted me to purchase my MINI Cooper S on 2-1-03. To hassle a site that promotes the the qualities of owning a MINI in a very family friendly atmosphere is like shooting yourself in the foot. Regardless of the use of mini in the name, this site has done more for MINIUSA than all of the creative advertising the company could buy.
>>This self destructive action will make many MINI owners backlash against BMW/MINI. For all of the goodwill this site has generated for BMW/MINI you people should actually be paying the site owner a pretty good retainer!!!
>>Keep the site. Don't bite the hand that feeds you !!!!!!
>>
>>Best Regards,
>>Ron Rosenzweig
>>Proud Member of https://www.northamericanmotoring.com

 

Smokey4 I put a link there early today and like you I wonder if they'll leave it up.

Here's a quote from goin440 on MINI2.
>> I think BMW is bully-ing MCO to aquire rights for "MINI Motion," a new MINI product line.
see New Product

Also see MINI Motion
click "GEAR UP", then "MINI MOTION."

MCO owns mini-motion.com and BMW doesn't want to pay to aquire it. Thats my read into it. <<

Charles

 

Geeze, so many issues it's hard to know where to start...

Mark, like all others posting here, I 100% support your efforts and can't say enough about how terrific a job you've done with this site. On one hand it's tremendously brave of you to be invested fulltime in this effort (and supporting your family through this work); on the other hand, the fact that this site is so totally professionally run is testament to the fact that this is clearly more than an enthusiast's hobby. Without your professionalism, we wouldn't be having this discussion as you'd have either flown below BMW's radar or folded at the first voicing of their thuggery.

All things considered, I think your lawyer's correct. Morally, you DO have the upper hand and are right. Practically though, you are up against a corporation that's done this sort of thing many times before and at any rate has relatively bottomless pockets. Whether one comes to this conclusion today, next week, or next year...they stink and you/we/MCO are right. Time only costs money and saps resources from a better cause. Because money IS involved (your money, the sponsors' money, etc.), reaching this conclusion, IMO, is better done sooner than later.

Thus, my opinion would be to find a non-issue name for the site and to move on. Unfortunately MCO.com (and most of the derivatives) is taken, but I'm sure with the creativity on this site we can come up with something better than BMW's awful suggestions. (It's sort of as if Dave's new username was a trial run... ).

And yes, all of us current members WILL REMEMBER why this was necessary. This will instill a healthy (IMO) measure of skepticism forever more about the good intentions of BMW/MINIUSA...and this too is not a bad thing. In many ways this is unfortunately like growing up...whereupon one loses their innocence and learns that their parents/country/etc. isn't 100% what it's cracked up to be. We've now learned that the good natured "Let's blah, blah, blah" crap from MINI is just that. They're a car company. They're BMW (not some quaint British manufactory) with a raft of lawyers looking out for the bottom line...and heaven help anyone or anything that impinges (or threatens somehow to impinge) on that. OK, now we know.

 

I'm a member of MINI2.com and just joined up to show my support. I think MINI is rediculous to ask this of you and I will let them know that as well.

 

Concerning Corporate Mini's heavy handedness, please take a look at this posting which concerns the way our sponsors and aftermarket "inventors" are being treated.

Tom

 

Legally they CAN say do not use it, but you did purchase those before their registration, thus you do not have to sell/transfer or anything else. Sit on them I say and let BMW stew. Be aware that at that point there will probably be a microscope up a "very uncomfortable place" waiting for you to mess up with the site. Heck, change to motoringmadness.com and tell them if they want them they need to pay for them. Just a thought...

 

What was your thread named and on which forum did you post, when I posted I didn't see anything so it might be gone already.

 

>>I took it to the Owners Lounge message board, with a link to this thread.
>>
>>I wonder how long they'll leave it up?

Speaking of this here is a screenshot of the "Links" area of the Owner's Lounge that I took back on April 16, 2003 when I was putting together a list of the interaction I had had with MINI and how they were using MCO as a resource. I first heard of MCO being added to the Owner's Lounge in December/January. If you go to the area today there is no MCO listed....

 

you actually think the right hand knows what the left hand is doing in any big corporation?

 

This really is interesting. I understand protecting a brand image. However, now that sites like this are "no longer needed" to promote the viability of the Mini, the BMW group is requesting name changes to dissassociate sites like these from them.

I wonder how many sales this site has encouraged? How many problems have been aired and resolved this site at no cost to BMW? How many otherwise irate customers with problems were reassured here that MINI stands behind problems?

I certainly see far more positive than negative from this site. The site is monitored and tracked. This type of site can only enhance the brand image and serve to further develop the feeling of 'community" the BMW group so desperately desires from the "mini" family. The BMW group should applaud Mark and say thank you very much for enhancing sales and supporting MINI.

JB

 

MINIDivision (MINIUSA Corporate's UserID on MCO) has posted on this site frequently. Here is a listing starting in September of 2002

Beneath the Bonnet Busted Fuel Gauge Anyone? MINIDivision Jul 28, 2003 - 10:21 AM
Beneath the Bonnet Anyone else waiting for software update? MINIDivision Jul 28, 2003 - 10:03 AM
MINI Talk MINI USA Re: Windshields MINIDivision Jul 24, 2003 - 01:06 PM
MINI Talk MINI USA Re: Windshields MINIDivision Jul 15, 2003 - 02:38 PM
Beneath the Bonnet MINI was running fine, then, the engine wouldn't restart! MINIDivision Jul 11, 2003 - 05:38 PM
Beneath the Bonnet PS pump - imminent failure? MINIDivision Jun 30, 2003 - 11:19 AM
Beneath the Bonnet Creaking sound when turning at slow speeds... MINIDivision Jun 27, 2003 - 10:27 AM
Beneath the Bonnet A Tale of Two Failures MINIDivision Jun 27, 2003 - 09:23 AM
Beneath the Bonnet MINI hesitation problems MINIDivision Jun 27, 2003 - 09:20 AM
MINI Talk MINIDivision - Improve Customer Satisfaction for Free. MINIDivision Jun 23, 2003 - 10:01 AM
MINI Talk About your MINI's ECVT Transmission MINIDivision Jun 19, 2003 - 09:27 AM
MINI Talk MINI USA Delivers! MINIDivision Jun 13, 2003 - 02:46 PM
MINI Talk A Reminder about Coolant from MINI USA MINIDivision Jun 06, 2003 - 12:27 PM
MINI Talk Wicked vibration/noise from gearshift MINIDivision Jun 05, 2003 - 10:27 AM
MINI Talk Air Conditioning Sucks MINIDivision Jun 05, 2003 - 09:40 AM
Beneath the Bonnet Stumbling MINIDivision May 29, 2003 - 03:22 PM
MINI Talk MINI Shock Absorber Improvement MINIDivision May 16, 2003 - 03:14 PM
MINI Talk MINI Shock Absorber Improvement MINIDivision May 15, 2003 - 04:05 PM
MINI Talk Rear Fog Lights MINIDivision May 13, 2003 - 01:02 PM
MINI Talk stress cracks in windshields MINIDivision May 01, 2003 - 01:04 PM
MINI Talk Fixed????? MINIDivision Apr 24, 2003 - 10:18 AM
MINI Talk My dealer's service sucks. MINIDivision Apr 01, 2003 - 09:46 AM
Beneath the Bonnet Breakdown! MINIDivision Mar 21, 2003 - 11:56 AM
MINI Talk Service Problem?!?!? MINIDivision Mar 06, 2003 - 01:44 PM
Beneath the Bonnet S Coolant tank Revisited: how big of a problem MINIDivision Feb 28, 2003 - 03:06 PM
Beneath the Bonnet Cooper cold engine stall (for me, on 5-speed) MINIDivision Jan 23, 2003 - 02:27 PM
Beneath the Bonnet Seat Belt light problem MINIDivision Jan 08, 2003 - 04:03 PM
MINI Talk My Lurching MINI?? MINIDivision Dec 30, 2002 - 08:10 AM
MINI Talk A/C Fan stopped working. MINIDivision Dec 09, 2002 - 02:37 PM
Beneath the Bonnet My poor sick Mini MINIDivision Nov 16, 2002 - 07:44 AM
Beneath the Bonnet Driver side window needs new motor! MINIDivision Nov 12, 2002 - 08:33 AM
MINI Talk Horrible service at the Assael in Monrovia MINIDivision Oct 18, 2002 - 07:35 AM
Beneath the Bonnet Radiator Leak. MINIDivision Oct 12, 2002 - 12:29 PM
Beneath the Bonnet Window Problems MINIDivision Oct 09, 2002 - 07:16 AM
Beneath the Bonnet auxillary fan MINIDivision Sep 26, 2002 - 04:07 PM
MINI Talk Leather Disappointment... MINIDivision Sep 26, 2002 - 03:59 PM
MINI Talk min from hell MINIDivision Sep 23, 2002 - 01:11 PM
MINI Talk Problem with New Driver's Leather Seat on MINI Cooper S MINIDivision Sep 06, 2002 - 06:50 AM
MINI Talk Trouble starting engine after sitting for long periods MINIDivision Sep 03, 2002 - 04:17 PM
Beneath the Bonnet Broken seat latch MINIDivision Sep 03, 2002 - 10:00 AM

 

Mark My two cents sent to owners lounge and the customer realations

To whom it may concern:

The company I work for currently owns and operates 2 Mini Cooper S automobiles.
Up until this evening I was in the thought of mind to own one for my personal use
and one for my son. Now, however, I am not so sure. What has brought me to this
conclusion? Mini USA’s apparent greed over common sense.


MiniCooperOnline is a site that is doing FREE advertising for your product and you want to strip them of the name recognition all for the sake of the all mighty dollar. MCO is not out to take on the world of BMW AG or MiniUSA. I believe MCO to be
one of the biggest proponents of product. If MiniUSA continues in this vein this is one potential customer that will no longer be.

We purchased the Minis because of the styling, engineering, and just overall value.
However, MiniUSA’s lack of common sense will at least deter 1 potential buyer of at
least 2 automobiles; One for myself and one for my son.

I would seriously like to ask those that are the decision makers to ask is MCO
really hurting and or damaging the name of MINI? I believe not. I believe MINI USA is doing that all by themselves.

Jack Daniel
Sr. Systems Engineer
Data Network Solutions
Chapin, SC 29036

 

My email to both BMW and MINI Owners' Lounge...

Dear BMW & MINI:

I live in Harrisburg, PA. I saw my first MINIs last August, during a trip to Seattle, WA and Vancouver, BC.

Between August and March, I spent countless hours on the computer. Some of them on MINIUSA.com; some on car magazine websites. Most of them, however, were spent on MCO: https://www.northamericanmotoring.com. The enthusiastic MCO community, sharing both an excitement for their cars and their willingness to help solve problems members encountered with their cars (what cars don't have problems?), was refreshing. It is the single factor that put me over the top. In early March I placed an order for a 2003 MCS.

My car finishes production this week. Yesterday, I participated in my first MINI event, a 56-MINI car rally through the twisting roads of Bucks County, PA. It was an event organized in exactly one month by four MINI enthusiasts who call MCO their home-away-from-home. Their MCO thread on the rally has over 300 comments and 4400 hits. Participants came from Maryland, Connecticut, New Jersey, OREGON...all a result of the coverage in a vibrant https://www.northamericanmotoring.com. It was supported by a MINI dealer (Otto's of West Chester) and received full coverage, touting BMW and MINI--with a color photo spread--in today's Philadelphia Inquirer. That's such great advertising for BMW/MINI.

That leads to a subject you're beginning to hear a lot about...your battle with https://www.northamericanmotoring.com over the use of MINI in its name. It simply baffles me. It strikes me as self-defeating. It strikes me as inconsistent with the MINI philosophy. And it dampens my enthusiasm for the brand and the car.

I encourage you to reconsider your position, to return to an interest-based discussion with MCO's Mark Ferguson, and to reach an agreement satisfying everyone's interests and needs.

David Helfman
Harrisburg, PA
Waiting for my September delivery...

 

A brief journey into reality. MINIUSA does not care if you love your MINI or hate it. Their one concern is their bottom line … profit. If an issue may affect their profitability they will address it … If not they will ignore it … Standard operating procedure for most folks. You have to make this a monetary issue. Put a sign in the window of your car listing the faults you have experienced. Example: 1. 4 broken windshields 2. Power steering pump failure 3. Stumbling throttle response 4. Unresponsive arrogant dealer (This lettering should be as large as practical). Else where on the sign “ I support MCO” … size is not important … MINIUSA will shortly know why these sign have appeared.

Other types of statements will also be effective. Use your imagination. Be truthful and not slanderous. 9000 mobile statements of poor performance by BMW/MINI.

 

Mark,
Your mention of the owners lounge links is interesting - if they were serious about chasing "infringing domains" then it looks like http://www.minicooper.org should be top of the list?
I wonder if they noticed you because of the logo, then just got heavy. Not an excuse but maybe a reason why THIS site is being targetted.

I don't see how they can claim the word "MINI" - what about Mini vans?

Are they going to try and close down MossMini, MiniMania, etc, etc?

 

Wow!!! What a stinking mess. I'm sorry Mark that your wonderful site has caused you so much grief.

My opinion, for what it's worth, is to pass the hat around to members and fight this thing. Even if this site was totally worthless....which it most certainly is not, it would be worth fighting just for the principal of the matter.

I would think that amongst the members of this site there would have to be some pretty serious connections to legal help, publicity, etc. I can tell you how pissed off I am right now and I'm only one of thousands, I'm sure.

I think involving the press is the best thing to do. BMW needs to understand how big and how negative of an impact, such a ridiculous move will have on the bottom line and unfortunately they won't listen unless they are made to listen.

There are thousands of press outlets which could all start with the Associated Press. From there things could go in a million directions.

BMW is not just picking on some small "grass-roots" organization. They are picking on people with MILLIONS of dollars in buying power and I don't care what they say, but my decision to never buy another BMW product could cost them dozens and maybe hundreds of cars in my lifetime by the time you account for referrals and such.

Please fight this thing and let us all know the best way that we can help.

Thanks again and best regards,

Jason