Legals issues for MCO, businesses with MINI in their names,
pug poo picker-upper
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,803
Likes: 30
From: California
Correct, the dealers aren't involved in the issue directly. However, they do have an interest in having MINI enthusiasts and they have a direct way of making these comments known to others within the MINIUSA organization, be they regional reps, or people at MINI Corporate in New Jersey.
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,649
Likes: 0
From: 14605
>>so, is BMW NA complaining about the use of "MINI", because they don't have a right to do anything about "Mini", right?
>>
... actually, BMW bought the right to the 'classic' as well - they could be going after any company that trades on any form of the name .....
>>
... actually, BMW bought the right to the 'classic' as well - they could be going after any company that trades on any form of the name .....
3rd Gear
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 283
Likes: 0
From: nashville
I'm ticked! Also, there is a MlNl (those were 2 lower case L's, not I's) billboard around my house that reads" Bruce Lee only weighed 135 pounds." All I have to say is, "I am ready to dual,Masta Mark FerguSAN"
Banned
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,890
Likes: 0
From: So Cal
I think we should all email MINI/BMW, 9000 emails will have to make them see that we are unhappy with their actions.
BTW, at a MINI marketing focus group I went to last week in Irvine I put in a lot of good words for MCO. I told them how helpful and important MCO was in my decision to buy a MINI etc etc...This was before I knew about what MINI is doing. Hopefully others that participated in the focus groups were also MCO members and talked about how important MCO is to them.
BTW, at a MINI marketing focus group I went to last week in Irvine I put in a lot of good words for MCO. I told them how helpful and important MCO was in my decision to buy a MINI etc etc...This was before I knew about what MINI is doing. Hopefully others that participated in the focus groups were also MCO members and talked about how important MCO is to them.
5th Gear
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,054
Likes: 0
From: USA
>>>>As for the domain, you already have "brand recognition" with MCO, so perhaps you could use a derivative of that? MCO-CLUB.COM, MCO-FORUMS.COM, etc.
>>
>>That is true but the problem I have with that path is that I would NEVER be able to tell people what MCO stands for. When we are running the TEAM MCO car or someone sees a car with a decal on it (when we can actually offer these)...and they are interested in MINIs they won't necessary know that it is a site for enthusiast information about MINIs. That said any name without MINI in it will suffer a similar fate so I expect I'll have to include a tag line with it like "The North American MINI Community". At this point if we are being forced to change the name I'd like to explore the ability to come up with an interesting new name.
>>
>>Mark
OTOH, the moniker "MCO" already has recognition. It could be an implied abbreviation like "DVD". I already think of this site as "MCO", not "minicooperonline". Others must as well. You would probably have to append something to it for the fqdn, given that unavailability of "MCO":
whois mco.com
Registrant:
Army Times Publishing Co. /Military City Online (MCO2-DOM)
6883 Commercial Dr.
Springfield, VA 22159-0170
US
Domain Name: MCO.COM
whois mco.org
Domain ID:D433166-LROR
Domain Name:MCO.ORG
Created On:22-Aug-1997 04:00:00 UTC
Last Updated On:26-May-2003 17:06:59 UTC
Expiration Date:21-Aug-2004 04:00:00 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar:R57-LROR
Status:CLIENT DELETE PROHIBITED
Status:CLIENT TRANSFER PROHIBITED
Status:CLIENT UPDATE PROHIBITED
Registrant ID:N-42188
Registrant Name:Craig Baltzer
Registrant Organization:Anjura Technology Corporation
whois mco.net
Registrant:
Real Internet Company Inc.
PO Box 545, Station B
London, ON N6A4W8
CA
Domain name: MCO.NET
>>
>>That is true but the problem I have with that path is that I would NEVER be able to tell people what MCO stands for. When we are running the TEAM MCO car or someone sees a car with a decal on it (when we can actually offer these)...and they are interested in MINIs they won't necessary know that it is a site for enthusiast information about MINIs. That said any name without MINI in it will suffer a similar fate so I expect I'll have to include a tag line with it like "The North American MINI Community". At this point if we are being forced to change the name I'd like to explore the ability to come up with an interesting new name.
>>
>>Mark
OTOH, the moniker "MCO" already has recognition. It could be an implied abbreviation like "DVD". I already think of this site as "MCO", not "minicooperonline". Others must as well. You would probably have to append something to it for the fqdn, given that unavailability of "MCO":
whois mco.com
Registrant:
Army Times Publishing Co. /Military City Online (MCO2-DOM)
6883 Commercial Dr.
Springfield, VA 22159-0170
US
Domain Name: MCO.COM
whois mco.org
Domain ID:D433166-LROR
Domain Name:MCO.ORG
Created On:22-Aug-1997 04:00:00 UTC
Last Updated On:26-May-2003 17:06:59 UTC
Expiration Date:21-Aug-2004 04:00:00 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar:R57-LROR
Status:CLIENT DELETE PROHIBITED
Status:CLIENT TRANSFER PROHIBITED
Status:CLIENT UPDATE PROHIBITED
Registrant ID:N-42188
Registrant Name:Craig Baltzer
Registrant Organization:Anjura Technology Corporation
whois mco.net
Registrant:
Real Internet Company Inc.
PO Box 545, Station B
London, ON N6A4W8
CA
Domain name: MCO.NET
Coordinator :: South East - Florida
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,603
Likes: 0
From: Tampa, FL
Well if mini or mini cooper cannot be in the domain, simply put it in the meta tags. This is something that they cannot stop as it is a description of the content of the site. Worse case scenario put "formerly known as minicooperonline.com" in the description field, this will enable search engines to still find it. They cannot legislate your content, save that it does not break laws, and you are known now as minicooperonline.com, thus you can have that in one or more of the meta tags. I reccomend that we come up with something WAY easy to have allowed as a backup so that it is in place if they keep up this silly business and decide to really get mean.
Again, gimme a fax # and a pdf, I'll sign it and send it.
If we all send at the same time, though we would all not get through at once, I guarantee you no other faxes would likely make it through that day...
Again, gimme a fax # and a pdf, I'll sign it and send it.
If we all send at the same time, though we would all not get through at once, I guarantee you no other faxes would likely make it through that day...
2nd Gear
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL
My reply to the issue. I went a little further on the global scene just to generate some more attention to the issue ............. it is rediculous
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 6:06 PM
To: 'Customer.Relations@bmwna.com'
Cc: 'MINIOwnersLounge@askMINIUSA.COM'; 'infoservice@MINI.de'; 'customer.information@mini.co.uk'; 'ir@bmwgroup.com'; 'sky.foster@bmwmc.com'; 'bewerber.hotline@bmw.de'; 'erica.auslander@bmw.na.com'; 'moreinfo@mini.com'
Subject: Global Consumer Relations / Sales Issue
Importance: High
Attention : MINI Marketing / Consumer Relations
My protest is in response to the legal action taken against Minicooperonline.com by BMWNA / MINIUSA lawyers. As you can see from this thread on minicooperonline.com, many MINI owners are very upset about this litigation:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...mp;topic=14098
I am a dedicated MINI Cooper S owner, and have turned to this on line community for help on many issues. Friends have turned here to make the decision to buy a MINI, even after numerous new vehicle problems after it’s release in the US were realized.
SO, why does the legal team choose to litigate this, or other sights for the use of the “MINI” name ? Now after 1 year of release in the USA, with untold numbers of sights, vendors etc with this somewhere in their name do you now ( or recently to be correct ) choose to pursue this issue ?
You must realize you very well may be opening “Pandora’s Box” here with this approach, and will seriously hurt your image, and product sales with
these tactics by seriously tainting those that support the product so vigorously.
YOUR CUSTOMERS !!!!
I am certain this is not what you want, or BMW given the effort to promote this product line on a global basis. The word will get out, and very possibly the July sales figures will not be representative of sales figures to come. Lest not you forget that BMW as whole has been largely “boosted” my MINI sales in the last two years, and I am sure they don’t wish to change this anytime soon. Hitting the
Grass Roots Community with such ridiculous litigation is no way to keep all your customers coming back, not to mention drawing in new ones …………..
Reconsider this path, as I feel you are only doing yourselves untold irreparable harm in the “ Consumer Relations” department.
One very angry and disgusted MINI Cooper S owner !
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 6:06 PM
To: 'Customer.Relations@bmwna.com'
Cc: 'MINIOwnersLounge@askMINIUSA.COM'; 'infoservice@MINI.de'; 'customer.information@mini.co.uk'; 'ir@bmwgroup.com'; 'sky.foster@bmwmc.com'; 'bewerber.hotline@bmw.de'; 'erica.auslander@bmw.na.com'; 'moreinfo@mini.com'
Subject: Global Consumer Relations / Sales Issue
Importance: High
Attention : MINI Marketing / Consumer Relations
My protest is in response to the legal action taken against Minicooperonline.com by BMWNA / MINIUSA lawyers. As you can see from this thread on minicooperonline.com, many MINI owners are very upset about this litigation:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...mp;topic=14098
I am a dedicated MINI Cooper S owner, and have turned to this on line community for help on many issues. Friends have turned here to make the decision to buy a MINI, even after numerous new vehicle problems after it’s release in the US were realized.
SO, why does the legal team choose to litigate this, or other sights for the use of the “MINI” name ? Now after 1 year of release in the USA, with untold numbers of sights, vendors etc with this somewhere in their name do you now ( or recently to be correct ) choose to pursue this issue ?
You must realize you very well may be opening “Pandora’s Box” here with this approach, and will seriously hurt your image, and product sales with
these tactics by seriously tainting those that support the product so vigorously.
YOUR CUSTOMERS !!!!
I am certain this is not what you want, or BMW given the effort to promote this product line on a global basis. The word will get out, and very possibly the July sales figures will not be representative of sales figures to come. Lest not you forget that BMW as whole has been largely “boosted” my MINI sales in the last two years, and I am sure they don’t wish to change this anytime soon. Hitting the
Grass Roots Community with such ridiculous litigation is no way to keep all your customers coming back, not to mention drawing in new ones …………..
Reconsider this path, as I feel you are only doing yourselves untold irreparable harm in the “ Consumer Relations” department.
One very angry and disgusted MINI Cooper S owner !
4th Gear
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 548
Likes: 1
From: Cramerton, NC
I sent the following:
To Whom It May Concern:
I am extremely disappointed to hear of the legal maneuvers MINIUSA is pursuing against MINICOOPERONLINE.COM. It was through MINICOOPERONLINE.COM that I did research on the MINI, and the community played a very large role in my decision to buy a MINI. Furthermore, the sense of community that MINICOOPERONLINE.COM provides is a very positive aspect of MINI ownership. In fact, one might say that it is the community-based aspect that defines MINI ownership. To bite the hand that feeds you is short-sighted, as I'm sure you will see. The press will gravitate toward this issue, no doubt.
I understand the need to protect copyright and trademarks. I understand that BMW/MINIUSA can't set precedent of being soft on trademark infringement. MINIUSA can sell rights to use that trademark, however. I suggest MINIUSA work out an agreement with Mark Ferguson, the owner of MINICOOPERONLINE.COM. You could quite easily assign a value to the goodwill and owner-satisfaction, and value-added benefits that the site provides to MINIUSA, not to mention the number of people that his site ultimately delivers to your MINI dealerships. You could then charge Mark Ferguson a trademark usage fee that just happened to equal the value that his site provides to you. The net result would be no cost to either party, yet you could show legally that you were charging for the use of the trademarked name. If you had shutdown MINICOOPERONLINE.COM in its infancy, it would be an entirely different manner. But in laymen's terms, we have squatters rights. MINIUSA allowed the site to build, communities to form, and membership to the site to sky-rocket. Now that the site is a success, MINIUSA comes in to try to shut it down. That hardly seems the least bit fair to me.
I'm not a lawyer, and I'm sure I've oversimplified the issue. MINIUSA has shown their creativity and out-of-the-box thinking with the MINI ad campaigns. MINIUSA should put that same creativity to work in resolving this issue with Mark Ferguson while maintaining goodwill with him. In other words, quit working against Mark Ferguson and work with him to find a way for him to keep the site and to maintain your trademark protection. It is clear that Mark Ferguson has tried to work with you in a professional manner. You should show him the same courtesy and work to find a win-win solution, not brow-beat him with letters from your attorneys. That kind of behavior from MINIUSA disgusts me as well as thousands of other community members.
It was MINIUSA that ran ads touting Good-Samaritan-like virtues: jump starting a fellow motorist, putting a quarter in an expired parking meter. How about living up to that same ethical standard in your dealings with MINICOOPERONLINE.COM and Mark Ferguson.
Play fair, and you'll have a loyal community of owners. Play dirty, and it will backfire on you. Do the right thing, MINIUSA.
See ya,
JS
To Whom It May Concern:
I am extremely disappointed to hear of the legal maneuvers MINIUSA is pursuing against MINICOOPERONLINE.COM. It was through MINICOOPERONLINE.COM that I did research on the MINI, and the community played a very large role in my decision to buy a MINI. Furthermore, the sense of community that MINICOOPERONLINE.COM provides is a very positive aspect of MINI ownership. In fact, one might say that it is the community-based aspect that defines MINI ownership. To bite the hand that feeds you is short-sighted, as I'm sure you will see. The press will gravitate toward this issue, no doubt.
I understand the need to protect copyright and trademarks. I understand that BMW/MINIUSA can't set precedent of being soft on trademark infringement. MINIUSA can sell rights to use that trademark, however. I suggest MINIUSA work out an agreement with Mark Ferguson, the owner of MINICOOPERONLINE.COM. You could quite easily assign a value to the goodwill and owner-satisfaction, and value-added benefits that the site provides to MINIUSA, not to mention the number of people that his site ultimately delivers to your MINI dealerships. You could then charge Mark Ferguson a trademark usage fee that just happened to equal the value that his site provides to you. The net result would be no cost to either party, yet you could show legally that you were charging for the use of the trademarked name. If you had shutdown MINICOOPERONLINE.COM in its infancy, it would be an entirely different manner. But in laymen's terms, we have squatters rights. MINIUSA allowed the site to build, communities to form, and membership to the site to sky-rocket. Now that the site is a success, MINIUSA comes in to try to shut it down. That hardly seems the least bit fair to me.
I'm not a lawyer, and I'm sure I've oversimplified the issue. MINIUSA has shown their creativity and out-of-the-box thinking with the MINI ad campaigns. MINIUSA should put that same creativity to work in resolving this issue with Mark Ferguson while maintaining goodwill with him. In other words, quit working against Mark Ferguson and work with him to find a way for him to keep the site and to maintain your trademark protection. It is clear that Mark Ferguson has tried to work with you in a professional manner. You should show him the same courtesy and work to find a win-win solution, not brow-beat him with letters from your attorneys. That kind of behavior from MINIUSA disgusts me as well as thousands of other community members.
It was MINIUSA that ran ads touting Good-Samaritan-like virtues: jump starting a fellow motorist, putting a quarter in an expired parking meter. How about living up to that same ethical standard in your dealings with MINICOOPERONLINE.COM and Mark Ferguson.
Play fair, and you'll have a loyal community of owners. Play dirty, and it will backfire on you. Do the right thing, MINIUSA.
See ya,
JS
Coordinator :: South East - Florida
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,603
Likes: 0
From: Tampa, FL
I dropped a line to Mike Preist at Downtown Mini in Orlando. He owns 11 Minis currently (most older ones). Wonder what that brittish mentality will think of this "truly corporate american" garbage.
4th Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 381
Likes: 0
From: Santa Clara, CA
Wow this is the fastest growing thread in MCO history! I hope BMW is taking notice.
Mark, for the record I'm married to a lawyer so I can tell you they're not all like that but you definately have my outrage at your disposal.
Not only am I going to toss all my mini gear but my first mod will be to freakin de-badge my car.
Viva MiniCooperOnline!
Mark, for the record I'm married to a lawyer so I can tell you they're not all like that but you definately have my outrage at your disposal.
Not only am I going to toss all my mini gear but my first mod will be to freakin de-badge my car.
Viva MiniCooperOnline!
Coordinator :: South East - Florida
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,603
Likes: 0
From: Tampa, FL
cdconsor
Can youe wife give the real legal scoop on the previous use for mini motion as well as the use of acronyms, as well as "formerly known as..."
I do deal with my lawyer enough with some of this, but I do not want to harass him too much with this issue that does not have my A$$ets on the line.
Can youe wife give the real legal scoop on the previous use for mini motion as well as the use of acronyms, as well as "formerly known as..."
I do deal with my lawyer enough with some of this, but I do not want to harass him too much with this issue that does not have my A$$ets on the line.
6th Gear
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 4,831
Likes: 1
From: Phoenix, AZ
Here's my letter. Even though it's not quite as well written as many other are, I hope it gets the point across to them. I did quote some of the people who posted in the first couple hours of this thread. I also emailed the Sales Manager at MINI North Scottsdale too.
Hello,
I'm ashamed with BMWNA and MINIUSA for taking away the use of "MINI" from internet domain names. Specifically I refer to the lastest news that the minicooperonline.com's web site, an on-line MINI enthusiast community, is being targeted by your lawyers.
I feel this will hurt the image of BMWNA and MINIUSA as these sites are visited by MINI enthusiasts and by their potential buyers. The name branding that these sites do for the name MINI on a daily basis is incredible.
Someone wrote recently "BMWUSA and MINIUSA has grossly underestimated the impact of turning against their owners" and I must say I agree.
Someone else wrote: "Please read the 'Our Values' posted on MINIUSA.com and then reconsider your position. What you are doing to Minicooperonline.com goes against every value you claim to believe in. "
Another stated "This site is a 24 hour a day advertisement to buy a MINI and it costs MINIUSA absolutely NOTHING!"
Another emphasises: "This is Not Brand Protection, this IS BRAND DESTRUCTION"
Please, for all of our sake, take our concerns to up the chain to someone who has the clout to do the right thing.
Hello,
I'm ashamed with BMWNA and MINIUSA for taking away the use of "MINI" from internet domain names. Specifically I refer to the lastest news that the minicooperonline.com's web site, an on-line MINI enthusiast community, is being targeted by your lawyers.
I feel this will hurt the image of BMWNA and MINIUSA as these sites are visited by MINI enthusiasts and by their potential buyers. The name branding that these sites do for the name MINI on a daily basis is incredible.
Someone wrote recently "BMWUSA and MINIUSA has grossly underestimated the impact of turning against their owners" and I must say I agree.
Someone else wrote: "Please read the 'Our Values' posted on MINIUSA.com and then reconsider your position. What you are doing to Minicooperonline.com goes against every value you claim to believe in. "
Another stated "This site is a 24 hour a day advertisement to buy a MINI and it costs MINIUSA absolutely NOTHING!"
Another emphasises: "This is Not Brand Protection, this IS BRAND DESTRUCTION"
Please, for all of our sake, take our concerns to up the chain to someone who has the clout to do the right thing.
1st Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
From: Lawrence Kansas
Here is what I sent. Not quite as articulate as some but at least they know I'm out there along with the rest of you.
To Whom It May Concern,
I am the owner of a newly purchased 2003 Mini Cooper S. I have been reading the posts on minicooperonline concerning the use of "MINI" in the website name. I must confess that I am confused as to why BMW/NA would persue the site owner in regards to dropping the site name. The "new" Mini owners on the site are also expressing their disbelief that BMW/NA would in essence bite one of the key hands that is feeding them. These owners are passionate about their Mini's and go to great lenghts to promote them. However, it would appear that this promotion of the brand is about to take a "MAJOR" setback. Many owners seek information from their nearest Mini dealer and receive excellent advice. But, some owners don't have that luxury and turn to the internet for the information and feedback of current Mini owners. They like myself, discover minicooperonline and are introduced to a community of car owners that sing the praises of the new Mini.
I would hope that BMW/NA would take a serious look as to why the use of "Mini" by minicooperonline is a negative. I based my purchase of my Mini Cooper S on dealer information and what owners had to say on minicooperonline. Without all the positive comments by these owners I would have gone the Neon SRT-4 route. I already own a Dakota R/T so the choice would have been an easy one. However, minicooperonline provided the edge in the decision.
Why do legal departments always seem to spoil a good thing. minicooperonline has provided thousands & thousands of dollars in free advertising and promotion of the new "Mini". To my knowledge there has been no request for compensation for this. Why then does BMW/NA choose to "bite the hand that helps to feed them"?
Thank You for taking the time to read my opinion on this matter.
To Whom It May Concern,
I am the owner of a newly purchased 2003 Mini Cooper S. I have been reading the posts on minicooperonline concerning the use of "MINI" in the website name. I must confess that I am confused as to why BMW/NA would persue the site owner in regards to dropping the site name. The "new" Mini owners on the site are also expressing their disbelief that BMW/NA would in essence bite one of the key hands that is feeding them. These owners are passionate about their Mini's and go to great lenghts to promote them. However, it would appear that this promotion of the brand is about to take a "MAJOR" setback. Many owners seek information from their nearest Mini dealer and receive excellent advice. But, some owners don't have that luxury and turn to the internet for the information and feedback of current Mini owners. They like myself, discover minicooperonline and are introduced to a community of car owners that sing the praises of the new Mini.
I would hope that BMW/NA would take a serious look as to why the use of "Mini" by minicooperonline is a negative. I based my purchase of my Mini Cooper S on dealer information and what owners had to say on minicooperonline. Without all the positive comments by these owners I would have gone the Neon SRT-4 route. I already own a Dakota R/T so the choice would have been an easy one. However, minicooperonline provided the edge in the decision.
Why do legal departments always seem to spoil a good thing. minicooperonline has provided thousands & thousands of dollars in free advertising and promotion of the new "Mini". To my knowledge there has been no request for compensation for this. Why then does BMW/NA choose to "bite the hand that helps to feed them"?
Thank You for taking the time to read my opinion on this matter.
6th Gear
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,432
Likes: 0
I never thought I would do it, but I did.
Every day I park my MINI prominently and proudly in front of my business. Every day I speak to at least 5-10 folks about the car. Every day I speak so highly of this automobile. Until now. I just told a client of mine that I would never buy another MINI or BMW product again. I briefly explained why...and how this "community" of ours was in jeopardy. They agreed with me.
Tommorow, the MINI will be parked around back, and out of sight. I will print one sign to post in my MINI window stating my disgust, and another "FOR SALE" sign on the other side.
No apologies from me MINI, you lose! :evil:
Every day I park my MINI prominently and proudly in front of my business. Every day I speak to at least 5-10 folks about the car. Every day I speak so highly of this automobile. Until now. I just told a client of mine that I would never buy another MINI or BMW product again. I briefly explained why...and how this "community" of ours was in jeopardy. They agreed with me.
Tommorow, the MINI will be parked around back, and out of sight. I will print one sign to post in my MINI window stating my disgust, and another "FOR SALE" sign on the other side.
No apologies from me MINI, you lose! :evil:
Coordinator :: South East - Florida
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,603
Likes: 0
From: Tampa, FL
That would of course be your right, they CAN make you not use it, but you could just keep owning it. Same with the other that I mentioned. I ask that any lawyers here please correct me if I am wrong.
4th Gear
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 448
Likes: 0
From: Jupiter, FL
PLEASE .................. !!
Everyone on this site please take 5 minutes to protect this site and keep it the way it is!! Mark should not have to change a thing about this site!!! Drop the folks below a quick note about how you feel. And like Mark said,"Keep it constructive!"
Customer.Relations@bmwna.com
MINIOwnersLounge@askMINIUSA.COM
Here's mine:
Dear Sirs,
I am very distressed by an attempt from BMW/MINI to disband the MINI Cooper enthusiasts web site: https://www.northamericanmotoring.com.
This site has generated untold enthusiasm for more that 9,000 MINI owners and enthusiasts. It was because of the information and enthusiasm of existing owners on this site that prompted me to purchase my MINI Cooper S on 2-1-03. To hassle a site that promotes the the qualities of owning a MINI in a very family friendly atmosphere is like shooting yourself in the foot. Regardless of the use of mini in the name, this site has done more for MINIUSA than all of the creative advertising the company could buy.
This self destructive action will make many MINI owners backlash against BMW/MINI. For all of the goodwill this site has generated for BMW/MINI you people should actually be paying the site owner a pretty good retainer!!!
Keep the site. Don't bite the hand that feeds you !!!!!!
Best Regards,
Ron Rosenzweig
Proud Member of https://www.northamericanmotoring.com
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,099
Likes: 0
From: Just around the corner from the Dragon :~)
Another Test of Protest Sig
Going to start using it All Over the web, I love a Righteous fight.
Thanks for the sig DID/Scientist
This is like crapping in your own backyard, what a bunch of morons. :???:
Going to start using it All Over the web, I love a Righteous fight.
Thanks for the sig DID/Scientist
This is like crapping in your own backyard, what a bunch of morons. :???: