Legals issues for MCO, businesses with MINI in their names,
Banned
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,805
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles, Ca
>>
>>>>MINIUSA may even bully MINI related Businesses and Force them off their Names... But... these businesses MAY have >>legal presidence due to the fact that they registered, without protest have you, their legal entity.
>>
>>Actually, MINI COOPER Online.com is a registered corporation in the state of Colorado.
>>
>>Mark
So Mark, They should have had a watchdog protecting their interest... but they didn't get it back from boarding until this site was well and mature. To me it seems like you OWN the URL and do not have to forfeit it to THEM. At least not for free. I would utilize it as a tool.
Good Luck and I am sure that no matter what or where we end up from this, we will all be peeling off the band-aids soon.
Oops can I use the word band-aid? i hope Johnson and Johnson aren't monitoring this....
>>>>MINIUSA may even bully MINI related Businesses and Force them off their Names... But... these businesses MAY have >>legal presidence due to the fact that they registered, without protest have you, their legal entity.
>>
>>Actually, MINI COOPER Online.com is a registered corporation in the state of Colorado.
>>
>>Mark
So Mark, They should have had a watchdog protecting their interest... but they didn't get it back from boarding until this site was well and mature. To me it seems like you OWN the URL and do not have to forfeit it to THEM. At least not for free. I would utilize it as a tool.
Good Luck and I am sure that no matter what or where we end up from this, we will all be peeling off the band-aids soon.
Oops can I use the word band-aid? i hope Johnson and Johnson aren't monitoring this....
4th Gear
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 378
Likes: 0
From: Coral Springs Florida
Well.... all the things i had thought when i first read the situation have already been said, But i will reiterate my thoughts anyway!
This whole thing is totally ridiculous! They are (as previously stated) Shooting themselves in the foot with this whole thing! I've seen countless people on this site who were shaky as to whether or not they wanted a Mini...... and this site, the people & their opinions on this car & the treatment by the company was what sold them about the car! I thought miniusa was great with the ad campaign, the gifts they'd send to the owners after a certain period of time.... etc... but with this whole legal thing popping up.... It's like that was a facade to hide the army of lawyers just waiting to attack at the first thing they could sink their teeth into! I'm curious as to why they waited almost a year to start complaining about the site?! And why, if the site was infringing on them, Did they have it listed on their owners lounge links page?? Very odd!
I also read in another thread that Matt from cooper flags is getting flack for using the "Red S" logo on one of his roof graphics..... that's a little more understandable because of the lisencing agreements & such.... But MCO has done SO MUCH for them as far as encouraging sales and advertising!!
Everyone knows that word of mouth advertising is the best kind of advertising you can get!! That's the kind of advertising you cannot buy!!! Sure you may see a cute Mini Cooper billboard on your way home from work..... But chances are, that won't sell you on the car as much as 9,000 people raving about it! Especially if you become a regular on the site & these 9,000 people start becoming trusted friends! I agree with what someone said earlier in this thread that THEY should be paying mark for the advertising this site has generated of the time it's been running!
It's a confusing situation... But i will definitely give my support! I will send my e-mails & make the phone call!! I do not yet have a mini... i'm a future owner who hasn't placed an order yet.... but if things keep continuing down the road they are going..... Mini usa can be sure that there is one customer that they lost! These ad campaigns... the people at the dealerships... they all make you feel good about owning this great car.... But when the higher-ups start pulling the bullying routine with the little guys who are doing more for them than theycould imagine..... that kind of makes you feel (well.... at least the way it makes me feel) like they are simply providing a false sense of uniquity.... they want you to believe they are different just to get your money.... I'm truly hoping that they back off & compensate somehow!! They'll need to kiss alot of butt to make up for this one.. there are 9,000 people on these forums..... and that 18,000 sets of cheeks to kiss!!! They'd better pucker up & get started or else "THE MINIUSA BACKLASH WILL BEGIN!" They definitely owe you, Mark!! I think they should be the ones dishin out some cold hard cash to you...... they should have from the start! This site is very important to their sales & thanks to the internet this site reaches every point on the globe!
Man..... everyone wants to sue for every little thing these days!! What's next?? I really hope the queen of england doesn't decide to start suing people for having Union Jack roof graphics!
In any case... You've got another supporter! I'm behind MCO all the way!!!
Cheers & Motor On!
Dave
This whole thing is totally ridiculous! They are (as previously stated) Shooting themselves in the foot with this whole thing! I've seen countless people on this site who were shaky as to whether or not they wanted a Mini...... and this site, the people & their opinions on this car & the treatment by the company was what sold them about the car! I thought miniusa was great with the ad campaign, the gifts they'd send to the owners after a certain period of time.... etc... but with this whole legal thing popping up.... It's like that was a facade to hide the army of lawyers just waiting to attack at the first thing they could sink their teeth into! I'm curious as to why they waited almost a year to start complaining about the site?! And why, if the site was infringing on them, Did they have it listed on their owners lounge links page?? Very odd!
I also read in another thread that Matt from cooper flags is getting flack for using the "Red S" logo on one of his roof graphics..... that's a little more understandable because of the lisencing agreements & such.... But MCO has done SO MUCH for them as far as encouraging sales and advertising!!
Everyone knows that word of mouth advertising is the best kind of advertising you can get!! That's the kind of advertising you cannot buy!!! Sure you may see a cute Mini Cooper billboard on your way home from work..... But chances are, that won't sell you on the car as much as 9,000 people raving about it! Especially if you become a regular on the site & these 9,000 people start becoming trusted friends! I agree with what someone said earlier in this thread that THEY should be paying mark for the advertising this site has generated of the time it's been running!
It's a confusing situation... But i will definitely give my support! I will send my e-mails & make the phone call!! I do not yet have a mini... i'm a future owner who hasn't placed an order yet.... but if things keep continuing down the road they are going..... Mini usa can be sure that there is one customer that they lost! These ad campaigns... the people at the dealerships... they all make you feel good about owning this great car.... But when the higher-ups start pulling the bullying routine with the little guys who are doing more for them than theycould imagine..... that kind of makes you feel (well.... at least the way it makes me feel) like they are simply providing a false sense of uniquity.... they want you to believe they are different just to get your money.... I'm truly hoping that they back off & compensate somehow!! They'll need to kiss alot of butt to make up for this one.. there are 9,000 people on these forums..... and that 18,000 sets of cheeks to kiss!!! They'd better pucker up & get started or else "THE MINIUSA BACKLASH WILL BEGIN!" They definitely owe you, Mark!! I think they should be the ones dishin out some cold hard cash to you...... they should have from the start! This site is very important to their sales & thanks to the internet this site reaches every point on the globe!
Man..... everyone wants to sue for every little thing these days!! What's next?? I really hope the queen of england doesn't decide to start suing people for having Union Jack roof graphics!
In any case... You've got another supporter! I'm behind MCO all the way!!!
Cheers & Motor On!
Dave
6th Gear
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,422
Likes: 0
From: Lockport, NY, USA
Oh and Mark, have you checked out the EFF?
http://www.eff.org
It might be a good idea to send some of the 'love letters' to http://www.chillingeffects.org/
I'm sure BMW and MINI would love to see the letters posted up there...
Rocketboy_X
Trademark Law - Domain Name Cases:
EFF has taken on several legal cases to protect the right to publish on the Internet without fear of trademark infringement lawsuits. In the Ford v. Great Domains case, the Ford Motor Company has sued several independent website operators whose domain names contain the words "volvo," "ford" or "jaguar" using a law intended to prevent "cybersquatting." EFF is defending several of those charged by Ford. In the most egregious example, Ford is accusing http://www.jaguarcenter.com -- a site about big cats -- of trademark infringement.
EFF has taken on several legal cases to protect the right to publish on the Internet without fear of trademark infringement lawsuits. In the Ford v. Great Domains case, the Ford Motor Company has sued several independent website operators whose domain names contain the words "volvo," "ford" or "jaguar" using a law intended to prevent "cybersquatting." EFF is defending several of those charged by Ford. In the most egregious example, Ford is accusing http://www.jaguarcenter.com -- a site about big cats -- of trademark infringement.
It might be a good idea to send some of the 'love letters' to http://www.chillingeffects.org/
I'm sure BMW and MINI would love to see the letters posted up there...
Rocketboy_X
Banned
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,805
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles, Ca
hey One thought...
Maybe this situation will cause Sales to drop... overstocking the dealerships with unpurchased Mini Coopers....
then once it's all cleared up... there will be an Overstock Clearance Sale!
It's always darkest before the light, so hold tight and grab a flashlight.
Maybe this situation will cause Sales to drop... overstocking the dealerships with unpurchased Mini Coopers....
then once it's all cleared up... there will be an Overstock Clearance Sale!
It's always darkest before the light, so hold tight and grab a flashlight.
1st Gear
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
From: Houston, Texas, USA
I have been working 70 hours a week at two jobs now for 6 months to save for my Coop' ! But the idea that BMW NA is more interested in "saving face" and what have you is really cause for me to reconsider! :evil:
Hmm. How 'bout i go buy a PT Cruiser...or maybe a Civic...or
OOH OOH I'VE GOT IT!
...A Neon.
Control is an illusion.
Hmm. How 'bout i go buy a PT Cruiser...or maybe a Civic...or
OOH OOH I'VE GOT IT!
...A Neon.
Control is an illusion.
2nd Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
Does this mean that all the other mini sites are changing their names as well. Mossmini, minimania, monstermini, miniparts, newmini, mini-motorsports, promini, etc.The fact that they waited until now to make you change your name suggest this is an attack on your site, its seems that by letting it slide until now they have given consent in a "right of way" kind of way, and just like a "right of way" they can not revoke that consent once it has been established that is knowing of the trespass and doing nothing. If the site has to change its name tho I would go with thewebsiteformerlyknownasmco. ps i just made all of that up...
Banned
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,890
Likes: 0
From: So Cal
>>VW did this to all of us old aircooled people too. We could not have the vw logo on any of our stuff as well. If you look in some of the adds for restoration parts you will see modified logos or none at all.
I am a huge aircooled VW fan and after VW did what they did I vowed to never buy a new VW! It seems that MINI is trying to pull the same thing on us MINI owners...My next car was going to be another MINI or possibly a BMW but now that has all changed!
"Come see the oppression inherent in the system!!!" -Monty Python
I am a huge aircooled VW fan and after VW did what they did I vowed to never buy a new VW! It seems that MINI is trying to pull the same thing on us MINI owners...My next car was going to be another MINI or possibly a BMW but now that has all changed!
"Come see the oppression inherent in the system!!!" -Monty Python
Neutral
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: new jersey
i've been a member here for a long time, but hang out mostly at mini2. however this concerns us all.
i'm shocked. i had really fallen for it, i really believed that the MINI experience was different. it felt different. until now; turns out it was all sales-speak after all. now that everything's established and set up, the entusiast grassroots are needed no more. away with them. now they can add no value no more, they can only cause potential trouble. away with them. "let's litigate."
a while back i came across the whole nissan.com* story and felt totally disgusted, vowed never to even consider a nissan automobile - i won't, ever - and felt immensely proud and pleased that my experience had been so entirely different, how BMW/MINI would never do something of the sort - they loved and fostered their communities, they valued their customers and shared in our enthusiasm for this marvel of a little motor.
i was part of an exhilarating motoring experience.
now i own a car.
i'll be looking at another car when my lease is up. they're all the same anyway.
(* go to nissan.com, then google it for the whole sad story.)
i'm shocked. i had really fallen for it, i really believed that the MINI experience was different. it felt different. until now; turns out it was all sales-speak after all. now that everything's established and set up, the entusiast grassroots are needed no more. away with them. now they can add no value no more, they can only cause potential trouble. away with them. "let's litigate."
a while back i came across the whole nissan.com* story and felt totally disgusted, vowed never to even consider a nissan automobile - i won't, ever - and felt immensely proud and pleased that my experience had been so entirely different, how BMW/MINI would never do something of the sort - they loved and fostered their communities, they valued their customers and shared in our enthusiasm for this marvel of a little motor.
i was part of an exhilarating motoring experience.
now i own a car.
i'll be looking at another car when my lease is up. they're all the same anyway.
(* go to nissan.com, then google it for the whole sad story.)
3rd Gear
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 267
Likes: 0
From: Monster Island
>>>>VW did this to all of us old aircooled people too. We could not have the vw logo on any of our stuff as well. If you look in some of the adds for restoration parts you will see modified logos or none at all.
>>
>>I am a huge aircooled VW fan and after VW did what they did I vowed to never buy a new VW! It seems that MINI is trying to pull the same thing on us MINI owners...My next car was going to be another MINI or possibly a BMW but now that has all changed!
>>
Same here. I lived and breathed VW. Traveled up and down CA each year to all the VW events; even to Bad Camberg, Germany for the Mecca of VW events. But when VW took a hard stand against the VW community, that was the final straw...Then MINI came along.
I read the first 3 pages of this thread and then the last (page 10)...it's getting late so I'll try to be brief.
MINIUSA - When you were advised to take action against MCO, did THEY also tell you that YOUR CUSTOMERS are a great part of MCO?
Did THEY tell you that outspoken celebs own MINIs?
Did THEY also tell you that if you destroy the passion MINI owners have for your product that, well, you're basically left with first time buyers.
Did THEY tell you that other car makers are gearing up to grab the market back?
>>
>>I am a huge aircooled VW fan and after VW did what they did I vowed to never buy a new VW! It seems that MINI is trying to pull the same thing on us MINI owners...My next car was going to be another MINI or possibly a BMW but now that has all changed!
>>
Same here. I lived and breathed VW. Traveled up and down CA each year to all the VW events; even to Bad Camberg, Germany for the Mecca of VW events. But when VW took a hard stand against the VW community, that was the final straw...Then MINI came along.
I read the first 3 pages of this thread and then the last (page 10)...it's getting late so I'll try to be brief.
MINIUSA - When you were advised to take action against MCO, did THEY also tell you that YOUR CUSTOMERS are a great part of MCO?
Did THEY tell you that outspoken celebs own MINIs?
Did THEY also tell you that if you destroy the passion MINI owners have for your product that, well, you're basically left with first time buyers.
Did THEY tell you that other car makers are gearing up to grab the market back?
1st Gear
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
From: Kent, UK
(Bk_MCS):
>>-short
>>-has mini in it (but is part of a real word)
>>-minimum could relate to the size of the car
>>
>>MINIMUM.com
he he!
Less is more!
I have lurked here for about 4 months and only just decided to join last week.
If there are 9,000 members, imagine how many lurkers there are who have benefitted from the advice given here, or as a result, had their purchase decision swayed in favour of MINI!
I certainly wouldn't have committed to buying a MINI if it hadn't been for all you guys.
Mark - I support you all the way - whatever you decide to do.
Power to the People
x
Kirsty
>>-short
>>-has mini in it (but is part of a real word)
>>-minimum could relate to the size of the car
>>
>>MINIMUM.com
he he!
Less is more!
I have lurked here for about 4 months and only just decided to join last week.
If there are 9,000 members, imagine how many lurkers there are who have benefitted from the advice given here, or as a result, had their purchase decision swayed in favour of MINI!
I certainly wouldn't have committed to buying a MINI if it hadn't been for all you guys.
Mark - I support you all the way - whatever you decide to do.
Power to the People
x
Kirsty
5th Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,092
Likes: 0
From: New Brunswick, NJ
Quote/bump/thanks Dave:
>>Maybe if we show support in grassroots ways like this MINIUSA/BMWUSA will be able to see the level of support for MCO (hint: it's more than the depth/breadth of support the rear fog light had).
>>
>>I think it's important that we show our displeasure in a respectful manner and not make threats.
>>
>>To that end, here are a couple of satirical signature images.
>>
>>Let's Litigate
>>
>>
>>
>>[IMG*]https://www.northamericanmotoring.com/albums/album04/ewn.jpg[/*IMG]
>>copy the link above and remove the two * characters to use in your signature
>>
>>Let's Take A Stand
>>
>>
>>
>>[IMG*]https://www.northamericanmotoring.com/albums/album04/ewo.jpg[/*IMG]
>>copy the link above and remove the two * characters to use in your signature
>>Maybe if we show support in grassroots ways like this MINIUSA/BMWUSA will be able to see the level of support for MCO (hint: it's more than the depth/breadth of support the rear fog light had).
>>
>>I think it's important that we show our displeasure in a respectful manner and not make threats.
>>
>>To that end, here are a couple of satirical signature images.
>>
>>Let's Litigate
>>
>>
>>
>>[IMG*]https://www.northamericanmotoring.com/albums/album04/ewn.jpg[/*IMG]
>>copy the link above and remove the two * characters to use in your signature
>>
>>Let's Take A Stand
>>
>>
>>
>>[IMG*]https://www.northamericanmotoring.com/albums/album04/ewo.jpg[/*IMG]
>>copy the link above and remove the two * characters to use in your signature
2nd Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 136
Likes: 0
From: Germany
I would have never joined the Mini craze, if not for great sites like Minicooperonline. This site, along with others, have made me more obsessed with my car than I'd like to admit.
If you're listening MINIUSA/BMW AG, don't screw up a good thing while you got it.
If you're listening MINIUSA/BMW AG, don't screw up a good thing while you got it.
2nd Gear
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
From: Silver Spring, Maryland
My thought is that if THEY want to protect/restrict the usage of MINI and MINI Cooper as trademarks or whatever you call it, THEY could agree to perpetual license of the name "minicooperonline" to Mark for like $1. As long as THEY do not attempt to exercise any control over the content of minicooperonline, and that can be included in the agreement. That way THEY protect the brand name and leave Mark and minicooperonline alone. If THEY are not willing to do that, then I suspect this whole thing is about money. And what corporation isn't about money over all else? MINI would have us believe that THEY are some sort of kind and gentle "Let's Motor" outlet for fun. Humbug! :evil:
Mike
>>
Mike
>>
pug poo picker-upper
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,803
Likes: 30
From: California
I'd just like to welcome the following new members to MINI COOPER Online. Most of these people stopped lurking yesterday and became members so that they could make there very first post on MCO to this thread. I'd like to encourage other lurkers to do the same. :smile:
goin440
Dustykins
futpot
shishkbob
trevers
ZigZagN
Flyboy66
miniyup_S
nomini
giff
Pablo
gtshnzr
Guuyuk
luckynik
xplode
kirstycud
valnmike
goin440
Dustykins
futpot
shishkbob
trevers
ZigZagN
Flyboy66
miniyup_S
nomini
giff
Pablo
gtshnzr
Guuyuk
luckynik
xplode
kirstycud
valnmike
2nd Gear
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
From: Silver Spring, Maryland
>>I'd just like to welcome the following new members to MINI COOPER Online. Most of these people stopped lurking yesterday and became members so that they could make there very first post on MCO to this thread. I'd like to encourage other lurkers to do the same. :smile:
>>
>>goin440
>>Dustykins
>>futpot
>>shishkbob
>>trevers
>>ZigZagN
>>Flyboy66
>>miniyup_S
>>nomini
>>giff
>>Pablo
>>gtshnzr
>>Guuyuk
>>luckynik
>>xplode
>>kirstycud
>>valnmike
Heyyyyy, I've been registered for a long time. I just do not always feel compelled to add my 2 ¢ worth, since the topic is usually well covered. This time, I think I had an original thought (shocked me too) and wanted to share it.
>>
>>goin440
>>Dustykins
>>futpot
>>shishkbob
>>trevers
>>ZigZagN
>>Flyboy66
>>miniyup_S
>>nomini
>>giff
>>Pablo
>>gtshnzr
>>Guuyuk
>>luckynik
>>xplode
>>kirstycud
>>valnmike
Heyyyyy, I've been registered for a long time. I just do not always feel compelled to add my 2 ¢ worth, since the topic is usually well covered. This time, I think I had an original thought (shocked me too) and wanted to share it.
6th Gear
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,265
Likes: 0
From: Dunedin, FL, USA
>>I will gladly wait for and sign the "legally correct" Petition Mark is drafting. (no offense Pilo)
Great. Thanks for the effort pilo, but people, please read this thread before signing any petition.
Oh, and how about this for a URL?: bmwlawyersscrewedmco.com
My protest letter that I emailed to BMW NA Customer Relations is now posted in my Journal at the MINIUSA.com Owners Lounge
_________________
[img]albums/album25/ama.gif[/img]VinceAndJessica.com
Alta pulley, Stebro exhaust, Pipercross intake, Progress rear anti-sway bar.
Great. Thanks for the effort pilo, but people, please read this thread before signing any petition.
Oh, and how about this for a URL?: bmwlawyersscrewedmco.com
My protest letter that I emailed to BMW NA Customer Relations is now posted in my Journal at the MINIUSA.com Owners Lounge
_________________
[img]albums/album25/ama.gif[/img]VinceAndJessica.com
Alta pulley, Stebro exhaust, Pipercross intake, Progress rear anti-sway bar.
2nd Gear
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
From: North Carolina
>>Is it just me with my conspiracy theory or hasn't MCO, by banding us all together to be heard as one voice in our concerns to BMW/MINI been a thorn in their side? May this not be one way to disband us?
>>
>>I say, NAY! We shall not disband!
>>
>>Mark, We're right behind you brother. Tell us what to do.
I AGREE WITH YOU, TOTALLY.
>>
>>I say, NAY! We shall not disband!
>>
>>Mark, We're right behind you brother. Tell us what to do.
I AGREE WITH YOU, TOTALLY.
6th Gear
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,010
Likes: 0
From: Austin,Texas
>>Does this mean that all the other mini sites are changing their names as well. Mossmini, minimania, monstermini, miniparts, newmini, mini-motorsports, promini, etc...
This is what I'd like to know! Even MINI Fini makes and sells MINI gear and they even sell direct to the dealers - oh, I guess that's ok then !!!
There are many American companies that sell MINI parts and products. If this goes down, I want ever site to have to change their names. They can't single this MINI enthusiast site out. This is probably what we get for saying "hey, your windshields crack" or "Hey, the coolant bottle leaks" or "hey, we don't want a missing tooth in our toggle bank, give us the back fogs"... Enthusiasts are often not liked because attention to details, striving for perfection, etc... is often missing in the corperate world. Half *** sloppy work is ok, and no one should EVER complain.
and can you get what type of world we'll be living in where "John'sMotorParts", or "SanDiegoPartsToGo" or "leftdrivecars" (and a 100 other odd names) are all MINI parts places. and it's all because they CAN"T use the word MINI in our name if it pertains to the car !!
All the good MINI names will be in Europe ...
This is what I'd like to know! Even MINI Fini makes and sells MINI gear and they even sell direct to the dealers - oh, I guess that's ok then !!!
There are many American companies that sell MINI parts and products. If this goes down, I want ever site to have to change their names. They can't single this MINI enthusiast site out. This is probably what we get for saying "hey, your windshields crack" or "Hey, the coolant bottle leaks" or "hey, we don't want a missing tooth in our toggle bank, give us the back fogs"... Enthusiasts are often not liked because attention to details, striving for perfection, etc... is often missing in the corperate world. Half *** sloppy work is ok, and no one should EVER complain.
and can you get what type of world we'll be living in where "John'sMotorParts", or "SanDiegoPartsToGo" or "leftdrivecars" (and a 100 other odd names) are all MINI parts places. and it's all because they CAN"T use the word MINI in our name if it pertains to the car !!
All the good MINI names will be in Europe ...
derivation alert
I found this: Acura-TSX.com
They claim no affiliation or non-affiliation, plus you have to immediately pay to view the forums. If this isn't confusing in this current context, I'm not sure what is! Clearly Honda isn't concerned about this, and BMW is inconsistent with their agenda.
(GRRRRRR!)
I found this: Acura-TSX.com
They claim no affiliation or non-affiliation, plus you have to immediately pay to view the forums. If this isn't confusing in this current context, I'm not sure what is! Clearly Honda isn't concerned about this, and BMW is inconsistent with their agenda.
(GRRRRRR!)
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,062
Likes: 1
From: Boston, MA
>>derivation alert
>>I found this: Acura-TSX.com
>>
>>They claim no affiliation or non-affiliation, plus you have to immediately pay to view the forums. If this isn't confusing in this current context, I'm not sure what is! Clearly Honda isn't concerned about this, and BMW is inconsistent with their agenda.
>>(GRRRRRR!)
Actually the registration looks to be free, BUT they have a Paypal "donate" button. In any case, not every corporation is as simultaneously spineless and heavyhanded as BMW, so maybe Honda has a healthier perspective on this.
>>I found this: Acura-TSX.com
>>
>>They claim no affiliation or non-affiliation, plus you have to immediately pay to view the forums. If this isn't confusing in this current context, I'm not sure what is! Clearly Honda isn't concerned about this, and BMW is inconsistent with their agenda.
>>(GRRRRRR!)
Actually the registration looks to be free, BUT they have a Paypal "donate" button. In any case, not every corporation is as simultaneously spineless and heavyhanded as BMW, so maybe Honda has a healthier perspective on this.