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Inspired by this thread I decided to order a Wagner Tuning Competition intercooler clone from eBay.
Executive summery: The intercooler (IC) works. It maintained ambient (and very often sub-ambient) intake temperatures. Under load, the IC kept the intake air temperature (IAT) around 10° above ambient. Comparatively, under load the stock IC will rise as high as 50° above ambient. I have a strong suspicion that the end tanks of the IC, if not the entire IC, I purchased is in fact a Wagner Tuning Competition IC with the Wagner Tuning logo defaced or removed from the end tank.
I have been on the fence about purchasing an IC for the past few years and recently decided that the time had come. After looking at the various ICs (Helix, Ambient Thermal Management, Forge, and Wagner Tuning) and reviews here and on a few other boards, I decided the Wagner suited my needs. However, I was not really excited about the price. The thread I mentioned earlier got me thinking. I figured for $164 I could take a gamble and order what appeared to be a cheap copy of the IC I wanted at a fraction of the price. If it works, great! If not, I'm out coffee money for the month. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I ordered the IC on Wednesday, 25 October and it arrived at my doorstep on Saturday. Prior to installing it, I did some data collection on the stock IC. For reference, my MINI is a 2013 Cooper S. The only modifications are BSH motor mount, Ireland Engineering rear control arms, NM Engineering Power Module, K&N panel filter and a missing muffler. Data was collected via the Torque app for Android and the Carly for BMW OBDII bluetooth adapter.
Here is an example of what I was looking at:
Here are the obligatory delivery/unboxing photos:
Apparently Detroit is in China...
As you can see it is a little rough around the edges, but it was $164 so perfection was not expected.
It weighs in at 17.4 lbs. I'd like to see the Wagner Tuning Competition IC on a scale, I know that it is claimed to weigh 11 lbs, but I'd like to know if anyone outside of Wagner Tuning or a vendor has actually put it on a scale.
I also found this interesting.
It appears that something was ground off of the end tank. In fact, it looks a lot like a Wagner Tuning logo was ground off of the end tank.
There are no photos of the installation. It took my about 3 hours total, mostly because the bumper and crash bar removal. On the 2013 Hardtop, the lower crash bar will need to be modified for this IC to fit. After I got the car back together I spent four hours on the highway, collected some data and prayed that everything would work.
Here is the first run with the new IC:
As you can see, it is quite effective. Overall, so far I am happy with my $164 purchase.
I've attached the excel spread sheet with the collected data. I will update this thread as needed. If the IC goes high order and nukes my motor, I'll let y'all know.
Last edited by scotty_r56s; 10-31-2017 at 10:16 AM.
Reason: formatting
My ebay IC has never reached over 10 degree of ambient, i have a stage 2 manic with down pipe and some times (all the time) i do drive hard and very demanding of my car...so far love it. i have now switched from scangage 2 to veepeak and dashcommand so as soon as i can figure it out will post the result..
I have the same intercooler, and I only had to cut off the four threaded bosses for installation. Works well with my Manic Stage 2 tune. It get a little heat soaked in summer stop and go traffic, but quickly cools off when traffic starts flowing again.
I have the same intercooler, and I only had to cut off the four threaded bosses for installation. Works well with my Manic Stage 2 tune. It get a little heat soaked in summer stop and go traffic, but quickly cools off when traffic starts flowing again.
I've had the same experience as far as temps go, traffic sucks but it cools down quick. I left the bosses on, but ground off the top mounting tab. That Manic stage 2 is on my Christmas list.
I've had the same experience as far as temps go, traffic sucks but it cools down quick. I left the bosses on, but ground off the top mounting tab. That Manic stage 2 is on my Christmas list.
I think the manic is the only way to go, mary xmass...
I have an ebay intercooler too. Mine is the forge knock off. It was a perfect fit, looks to be good quality. As for temps, I'm not sure (don't have the OBDII reader for that). Other than not knowing the temps, no issues at all with mine.
I have an ebay intercooler too. Mine is the forge knock off. It was a perfect fit, looks to be good quality. As for temps, I'm not sure (don't have the OBDII reader for that). Other than not knowing the temps, no issues at all with mine.
Looks just like my Forge Copy. If you get an OBD reader I highly suggest using a Carista OBD reader. Its allows you to change some creature comforts like being able to roll the windows up with the lock button and not just down. Also you can turn off your DRL's. It also works with the Torque Pro App for live data such as boost gauges, temp, IAT, ect...
Looks just like my Forge Copy. If you get an OBD reader I highly suggest using a Carista OBD reader. Its allows you to change some creature comforts like being able to roll the windows up with the lock button and not just down. Also you can turn off your DRL's. It also works with the Torque Pro App for live data such as boost gauges, temp, IAT, ect...
Thanks for the advice on the OBD reader, been looking for something, just didn't know which one to get. DRL, turn off would be nice too!
All good things here, thanks for taking the time to post it up!
.... however, these are all bar and plate ICs. Anyone compare these to tube and fin style? Not starting the fire here, but tube and fin will recover from traffic heat soak even faster (less mass to hold the heat). And they are lighter. My ebay IC copy is about 9lbs. I'd have to dig up my data log, but it was a tick more efficient than these. In summer (high 80sF) it never was above 10deg of ambient with long 3rd and 4th gear pulls. But it dropped to amb within just a couple/3 seconds after lifting the throttle.
All good things here, thanks for taking the time to post it up!
.... however, these are all bar and plate ICs. Anyone compare these to tube and fin style? Not starting the fire here, but tube and fin will recover from traffic heat soak even faster (less mass to hold the heat). And they are lighter. My ebay IC copy is about 9lbs. I'd have to dig up my data log, but it was a tick more efficient than these. In summer (high 80sF) it never was above 10deg of ambient with long 3rd and 4th gear pulls. But it dropped to amb within just a couple/3 seconds after lifting the throttle.
What brand and what store on eBay did you purchase it from?
All good things here, thanks for taking the time to post it up!
.... however, these are all bar and plate ICs. Anyone compare these to tube and fin style? Not starting the fire here, but tube and fin will recover from traffic heat soak even faster (less mass to hold the heat). And they are lighter. My ebay IC copy is about 9lbs. I'd have to dig up my data log, but it was a tick more efficient than these. In summer (high 80sF) it never was above 10deg of ambient with long 3rd and 4th gear pulls. But it dropped to amb within just a couple/3 seconds after lifting the throttle.
I'd be really interested in your data. If I can find an affordable tube and fin I'd probably pick it up just to test it.
Last edited by scotty_r56s; 11-03-2017 at 10:31 AM.
The only downside I have had with it is that it's a little too think. That may not be a bad thing in the performance side of things....
It's a tight squeeze between the fascia cover and it. I had to poke a hole where the bolt goes through about 3/4 inch behind the stock one (bottom of plastic) in order for it to fit.
Last edited by John_theCapn; 11-03-2017 at 10:23 AM.
Here's the one I bought. Just got my OBD data logger and was messing with it on the way to work this morning. Ambient temp was 51.8F with a 51.8F dew point, light rain and mist, 100% humidity and barometric pressure of 30.21inHg. I was getting between 1-4 degrees above ambient on the interstate, engine rpm at about 3000. I will log some data on the way home tomorrow, which will be stop and go traffic (rush hour heading in to DC). I'll post it when i can.
Looks pretty consistent. I'd imagine multiple pulls back to back would mirror my data. I'd say we both got a hell of a deal!
That's what I figured too! Some people have expressed concern that the welds may fail or core go bad, but having never read a report of one breaking, I went for it. For $157, even if it does go bad, I can buy 4 or 5 of them for the price of the name brand ones. No brainer.
I got a tube and fin to try. It’s very light compared to my Wagner. I had it alodine coated to prevent some oxidation. Maybe more efficient. I’ll try to post heat graphs and pics.
please compare your vacuum and boost reading between the bar/plate IC vs. the fin/tube
**its always been stated that bar/plate have less pressure drop but are not as efficient as cooling as fin/tube.. be nice to see some real world comparisons.
***I too have the ebay IC like the OP, couldnt be happier!
10-30-2017, 02:26 PM
My ebay IC has never reached over 10 degree of ambient, i have a stage 2 manic with down pipe and some times (all the time)
