Sorry if this is a stupid question..im new to autocrossing. Would the JCW suspension be considered a factory/oem part, or factory performance? Is it legal? (I have an 05 Cooper with SS..)

Also...I read you could use two way adjustable shocks. Most people seemed to be using the koni yellow. So you have to run the koni shocks on oem shocks?

 

JCW Suspension is considered DEALER-installed, so it is treated just like aftermarket parts under stock class rules. Therefore, the JCW shocks would be legal, but the JCW springs would NOT - you have to run the STOCK springs.

2-way aftermarket adjustable shocks (meaning separate compression & rebound adjustments) are legal. Even remote-reservoir 2-ways are legal, as long as you do not modify any body parts to run the hydraulic lines or mount the reservoirs.

ASSUMING you meant to say "run Koni shocks with oem SPRINGS" - then, YES - that would work fine as described above.

Keep in mind that MOST over-the-counter or mail order Koni's are NOT double-adjustable. They only have a Compression adjustment, which is a far less useful adjustment in autocross situations then Rebound. However, you certainly can pay more (as in MUCH more) to get a higher-end set of Koni's, customized Penske's and other brands that have both adjustments. It's all a matter of how much money you want to spend and how much TIME you want to invest in setting up the valving for your particular needs.

Finally, you have to further invest the time to learn HOW and WHEN to make these adjustments at each event. Surface conditions, track layout, what tire pressures you are running, YOUR DRIVING STYLE, etc., etc. can ALL affect the way the car is handling before you even touch the shock adjustments. Sometimes having TOO much adjustability will only confuse you and distract you from what you are really there to do - CONCENTRATE ON DRIVING. I recommend that you keep it simple for a while, and just focus on improving your driving skills, getting used to the CAR's inherent limits and having fun .

One last thing about those esoteric, big-bucks dampers - you must make sure that they have the exact SAME permanently fixed spring perch position (height) as stock, or that any adjustable perches can be and are visibly welded into that position. That is an easily-proven point of illegality if you were ever protested.
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Actually... Koni Sports, and most other single adjustable shocks, adjust rebound only.

Everything else is right on the mark.

 

But then again-Mini just bought out John Cooper works, aren't the JCW parts are available straight from the factory now? Dont they have part numbers? I think koni yellow sports with JCW spring would be a killer setup!

 

To be stock class legal, you have to be able to order it directly from the factory. Only the Motor work (head, supercharger, etc) and the Brakes are part of the factory option. The suspension pieces are not.

Lots of manufactures have performance branches, and very few make those parts available as factory options. The exception is Mazda, with the Mazdaspeed cars, but they are considered seperate models.

 

JCW is originally installed from the factory in oxford, as of a couple of months ago if Im not mistaken.

In order for one to upgrade their cooper to SS+ (which is H stock legal) this retrofit/install assumably would take place at the dealer. However the oem parts originate from the factory; same as the John Cooper Works Suspension.


Just trying to find the loophole for the JCW springs; its there.

 

There is not a loophole that would allow JCW springs on a Cooper, or Cooper S for that matter, in Stock class.

Your reasoning would allow OEM High Performance parts to be used in Stock class, and that is just not true. Ford, GM, Chrysler, Toyota, Honda, Mazda, etc, all have factory owned High Performance divisions that make parts for cars that run in stock class. None of those parts are legal unless they can be ordered as a Factory installed option on the car.

 

The engine upgrade, brakes, and lsd at are mentioned coming from the factory. It doesnt mention the JCW suspension, however I can reason why it isnt installed in oxford. Why you they install ss+, only to have JCW suspension installed at the dealer? Its a waist of money, and they could have just installed it at the factory. (They have own the rights to the parts.)

heres the link, but no word on the JCW suspension.

http://motoringfile.com/2005/08/03/m...ry_jcw_option/

Im going to find out.

 

Since you are posting in the HS forum, and your signiture says you have an '05 Cooper, all of this is irrelevant since the full JCW factory kit only is allowed in BS on the '06 MCS, and that means that all of and only the factory installed JCW parts must be there. No JCW anything is allowed in HS. Also, the rules are pretty clear that even if somehow something JCW was legal on an '06 MC, you can't update or backdate in Stock class, so you are out of luck any way you look at this.

 

yes you can.

I would "upgrading" my cooper to the jcw springs (which now I can prove it) are stiffer OEM springs upon which my car did not originally come with. The only thing is, however, the date which my car was made (2005), the parts werent sold from the factory. They are now, but with no change in the part.

 

Quote me the rule section that allows you to update/backdate in Stock.

Show me an an order form for 2005 that has JCW springs on a Cooper.

 

Yes, anything JCW in H stock is.....cheating. It is black and white, no debate.

 

You are definately wrong, however, you might be arguing a different point than Nygaard (who is right).

In stock, you can add factory available option packages after the fact, so long as you wind up with something that exactly could have come from the factory in that exact model year (adding SS+ to a cooper originally sold with SS, or using 16x6.5" wheels on a cooper that was originally sold with 15" wheels for example).

When autocrossers say update/backdate, they are specifically referring to a street prepared rule that allows you to take a part from a 95 neon and put it on a 97 neon, for example. You can't do that in stock (or STS). For example, taking the exact factory LSD out of an '05 Cooper S and installing it in an otherwise perfectly stock '03 Cooper S would not be allowed in stock.

 

What they are telling you is correct - No update/backdate is allowed in stock classes. Period.

Go back to my original response - the issue is not whether it is a Factory-PROVIDED kit of parts, but WHERE that kit is available to be installed (during the year the car was produced). It MUST be officially available to the public to order for installation during initial assembly, prior to delivery to the dealer.

As an example - I waited until the 2006 model year to order my JCW MCS because I heard that the engine/brake kit would - for the first time - be available as a factory-installed option, and it would include the upgraded brakes that otherwise would just be considered dealer-installed 'aftermarket' parts. As 2006 is the 1st year that this kit was available for factory install during assembly, it is the only year (so far) that the Stock Advisory Committee recognizes the JCW "model" as a vehicle eligible for classing in ANY stock class. All prior year-model JCW's remain buried in A-Street Prepared.

So, even if you got EVERY part that came in the JCW kit that my car has and installed it on a 2005 car EXACTLY like mine, it still would not be legal for B-Stock. However, if you bought a stripped 2006 MCS with no JCW parts, then retrofit the COMPLETE kit yourself just as it would have come from the factory, then you WOULD be legal for B-Stock. That assumes you ALSO completely retrofit one of the 2 additional packages that is required when you select the JCW Tuning Kit, namely the Sport Package or the Checkmate Package. There is no way to order the factory-installed JCW kit without one of them, so this is how all '06 B-Stock JCW's got stuck with DSC and the unfavorable 17" wheels.

I know this all sounds screwy - just because it was AVAILABLE to be ordered as an assembly line-installed option during 2006 means that it is perfectly legal to have your dealer retrofit it onto ANY stock-legal 2006 MCS whenever you please. Meanwhile, the poor slob with an otherwise IDENTICAL 2005 car isn't allowed to install it and stay 'stock'. But Dem's the rules!

!! You got to PAY to PLAY in the good ole' SCCA !!

To get back to your original question - Don't get confused between ordering the Factory-installed JCW Engine Tuning Package and the DEALER-installed JCW Suspension Upgrade. The suspension is not now and never has been an option available for INSTALLATION on the assembly line. That fact alone makes it illegal.
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Okay, I understand that because of my production date, this eliminates my eligibility for usuage of JCW springs. (And the fact that the springs arent from the factory yet.)

As for update and backdate, I can only use OEM parts that pertain to model year 2005; meaning I cannot use 02 springs. (Correct me if I mistaken...)

And another thing, as for wheels...
So I can use the 16x6.5 SSR comps? (Legally?)

Also, are there any rules on stripping, besides radio headunit removal? (Such as spare tire...what is the limit?)

 

Yes you can remove the spare tire.

At this point you might want to just refer to the
rulebook, available online in PDF format at:

http://www.scca.org/_filelibrary/Fil...solo_rules.pdf

 

Read the rules carefully, and remember, If it doesn't say you can do it, You Can't.

P.S. H stock does not allow you to remove the radio from a Cooper.

 

On the official rule book-
What does it mean "No racing tire or recap (on any cashing) may be used."


Also "Any item that cannot be held permanently in place by factory installed fasteners may be removed"

So any loose item is good for go; but stuff like seats and headrests arent.

 

You cannot use recapped tires or true race slicks. In the old days, and currently on some oval circuits, they use tires that have new tread attached to an existing carcass. You see this often with truck tires. We race on DOT approved tires, that are legal for the street, not race slicks.


I can only think of four items that fall into this... Spare tire (specifically allowed to be removed) , tool kit, rear parcel shelf and floor mats. Everything else has to stay, including the big cup holder on the 2005 models.

 

So basically any R compound tire is legal. I was thinking of the hoosier HS04 (or whatever it is) which is almost completely slick except for one single tread.

Damnit, I was thinking of unbolting that stupid cup holder. (But technically, thats an option, and you can delete that!) Just kidding. Could you?

Is the rear parcel shelf the shelf that elevates when the rear hatch is opened? I know this is removable, but it is attached by design.

 

The cup holder was not an option. It came standard on all 2005's. The rear parcel shelf is not held on by fasteners, it just slides into a groove.

R compound tires are looking more and more like slicks, but they have one important thing... a DOT approval and serial number.

 

Damn. I have to put that erector set cup holder back in?

I realized after the fact that ordering a Whalen might have been an error.

[Edit: Yes, I know I'm in GS, not H, but this thread was along the lines of my Whalen concern.]

 

It all depends on how serious you are... if you are running locally and finishing mid-pack, No one will care (much).

If you start winning, then things change. If you run divisional or national events, things are very tight and you are open for a protest.

 

Are you sure the cup holder was standard 100% of the 05 run? Also, i believe the rear parcel shelf is attached by two strings to the hatch, which is what causes it to lift when the hatch rises.

Do is it have to stay if it has "fasteners" or clips, or if its just held in place in general?

Also, is there a rule about taping the car for an aero advantage?

 

I think the " if it doesn't explicitly say that you can, then you can't " rule covers this.