Obviously, this is course dependent.

I just got back from an autocross today. I wound up running the whole course in first gear, without hitting the rev limiter. My first run, I did shift into second early, and had one downshift to first gear, which I am not that comfortable doing.

My other runs, I just stayed in first. Never hit the rev limiter, but I did have some wheelspin issues.

I got faster as the day went on, but that was mostly due to learning the course.

Anybody have experience if running high RPMs in a Cooper is faster / slower than low(er) RPMs in second?

I'd imagine the best thing to do would be to get comfortable doing the 2->1 downshift... I did see a bunch of other cars have problems doing the 2->1 shift. And there was a Honda S2000 that also ran the whole thing in first, but they've got like a 10,000 RPM redline.

 

It depends... I would say you are better off in the upper rpm band for the majority of the run. Since DOHC engines like to rev, the torque/HP band is up high. You also have some engine braking abilitiy and more boost on hand (if MCS). You will also have faster throttle response up higher in the rpm band. Most of all, you won't be shifting which wi;; slow you down and takes your attention away from the cones...

 

Unless the course is ungodly tight (aka crappy), running in 1st gear isn't usually worth it. It might feel faster, but almost never actually is faster than keeping it in 2nd.
We run on some small-ish lots locally, but we have some excellent course designers in our club, so we get some great technical 2nd gear courses out of relatively small lots.

So to summarize my experience and opinion:

1) Put it in 2nd gear
2) if the course really and truely needs to be driven in 1st gear, it is a bad course design (or the lot is SO small that it really isn't much good for autocross, however, sometimes you're stuck with lots like that)

 

It truly is course dependent. I have found when running smaller courses I did better with my MC when staying in first gear. Ive also found that in larger courses going to second is better. Ive also experimented that if their is a sharpturn going into a straight away, Ill drop down into first and accelerate again to gain speed.On fun runs in doing this I discovered I could get slightly better times. Derek Blanton 71 HS SCR 79 Division

 

Something that small...I wouldn't even call a course. Sounds like something you'd setup as kids in the street! lol

 

To show the constraints of the course we had, it was in this parking lot:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=colche...6217&t=k&hl=en

The part with 4 rows of parking spaces.

 

OK...that's EXACTLY what we'd setup as kids - and play on our bikes with ramps! lol

 

Remember some SCCA divisions have to take what they can get. To compensate you usually run the course around twice with a smaller parking lot. I prefer the bigger course but Minis do darn good in close quarters in G and H stock.

 

This was a local sports car club, not SCCA event. But yeah, gotta take what you can get.

 

I guess I didn't do too badly staying in first gear. I only noticed the times for my class during the event... I was 2nd out of 4 cars in class. The overall results are up now, and I was right in the middle of the pack overall, and most of the cars were in higher classes. If I had entered as a novice (since this was my first autocross, that would have been reasonable) I would have taken that class.

http://sccv.org/results/autox/2005/V...2005_Final.htm

Oh yeah, as a disclaimer, my Cooper wouldn't actually qualify as H-Stock since I have an aftermarket rear swaybar. But the local club has their own rules / points system, and I'm still in their (s)lowest class.

 

I agree that it really depends on the course each time out AND your ability to push the limits of your MINI and get to redline in first and on to second.

If the speeds that you attain do not send you to redline then you don't "have to" shift to second. But in my experience in autocrossing you should be thinking "how do I get to redline in first and shift to second ASAP".

Best answer is to look at the course and identify the longest straightaway. This is the area where you will have the most potential for speed. Now look at the corner/turn or element that is just prior to this straight, and maximize the speed at which you ENTER the straight. You should strive to hit redline as you enter the straight and shift to 2nd with all the gusto you can.

If your course doesn't really have much of a straight then:
You're right, first might be all you can do- or
Get on the team that does the course set-up so you can build some straights in the next course.

Personally I think you CAN make use of second gear but you will need to practice driving harder at each opportunity. Don't drive at the "same speed" as when you were driving in first- Drive Faster!

 

I can't recommend what you should go for - especially not having seen the course but this example might help.


I did an autox on 7/16 that was tight and relatively slow. There two MCs in my class - me and another guy that ran 1st gear the entire time. The cars are identical, except I have 15" Azenis and he has 16" runflats (which is a major disadvantage for him).

I would hit second first change I got and would stay in second even though there were 2 parts where the car would get below 3000rpm and really bog down. The other guy was running first all the way, only once hitting the rev limiter very briefly. The result was that I was running about 2.5 to 3 seconds faster consistently (thanks in part to my tires). The course was 55 seconds long.

The two of us always compete against each other and the time difference was the same as usual - i.e. all the courses whether fast or slow are 55-60 seconds and I usually end up with a 2 to 3 second advantage. Therefore, him staying in 1st the whole way didn't seem to help him too much with closing the gap. Instead he was spinning his inside tire wildly if he made the mistake of getting on the gas too aggressively and his engine was screaming like crazy all afternoon.

I was 3 seconds faster than two Mini Cooper Ss that day as well, one was doing a lot of 1st to 2nd antics, the other was in second the whole way.

I can't really see too much benefit in staying in first gear unless you are very very competitive, the course is really tight and you are trying to get every last milisecond out of the run. The key is to stay smooth, tight around the cones (where it makes sense to be) and carry your speed through. On any given autox you are turning 90% of the time and you are on the gas or braking hard 20% of the time. Picking the right line and carrying your speed will help more than anything. Dealing with inside tire burnouts and worrying about shifting up and down and bouncing off the rev limiter takes your concentration away from the 90% part.

 

Thanks for the advice...

Here's a video of my fast run of the day. You'll need the divx codec to play it (I didn't make the video, sorry)

http://homepage.mac.com/jtross/autocross.avi

 

I don't judge by length of course, or time to run it. I generally get to 2nd as soon as possible. On a very tight course, I may opt for 1st gear all the way thru if i am on the rev limiter less than 2 seconds at a stretch. The odds of blowing a down shift for me are much greater than the speed loss when hitting the limiter for less than 2 seconds.

We had an regional at avery tight school parking lot yesterday. The course design required a 2nd lap around part of the course to keep the run in the 45 to 55 second range for most classes. When I walked it, it looked tight but I did hit the limiter in 1st gear on one section for less than 1 second. The course was very creatively designed by Steve Tamandli. A lot can be done with a little space. Just because it's tight does'nt mean it a bad design.

The PAX index showed it was a tight course with many of the GS and STX cars in the top ten. I was first in STX and 10th in the index there and the winning STX car pax'ed 81st at the last Peru CENdiv which shows that a tight course can favor a car like the MINI and MCS

 

Hey Velvet nice video. Ive got an SCCA autocross event this Sunday and we will be running in a small parking lot. It will definatley be Mini favorable. I plan to do my first run in first gear to experiment.Ill let yall know how it worked out. Derek Blanton Indie Blue/White MC Number 71 HS SCR 79 SCCA.

 

Small course stayed in first the entire autocross.Only hit the revometer once. Overall not bad I finished a respectable third in H-stock. This is my rookie year. Derek Blanton

 

Cool... good result.

Our local club had another autocross in the tiny lot last weekend. Again, I stayed in first for the whole course. First in class (we have a modified SCCA class structure) and 9th out of 23 overall - lots of the cars there were WRXs and modified Miatas.

 

As someone who has been an autocross instructor for quite a few years, this "running in first gear" thing bugs me

If you guys were students at one of our novice schools, you'd get your hands slapped Try your next events in 2nd gear - your times will eventually improve (slow down earlier, and get on the gas sooner), and your poor engine will thank you