I've been reading posts and trying to fit the various advice together but am still a bit confused about what tire is right for me so I thought I'd just ask the question....

What tire would you recommend for someone who is new to the sport (1 school and 6 events on street tires under my belt) that would like to be more competitive with the guys running on R-comps? I would like to stretch the life of the tires out for the duration of a season (or more). I plan to run 10-12 events and 1-2 schools this year. I'm nervous about some reports I've read that measure tire life in runs, not events and don't think that I can afford multiple sets/year.

Would it be wise to switch to R-Comps before or after I attend the Evo School at the end of the month? Part of me thinks I should put them on the car and use the event to learn how to really take advantage of the extra grip but the other part is nervous about chewing up a good part of the life of the tires with the ~30 runs I'll do that day. Any thoughts?

TIA,
Adam Campion

 

Rs304's see this post.
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...423#post526423

 

Definitely do not run R-compounds during an Evo school unless you have money to burn, because you'll cord them sometime during the event if you push it unless you move the fronts to the rear during the event, and still, depending on the course surface and tire type, they may still cord. I'd recommend Kumho Ecsta MX's or Falken Azenis, possibly the new Hankook autocross tire would be a good cheap choice as well.

With all that said, honestly, the things they teach you at the Evo school have nothing to do with how well your tires stick, so, I say wait until after the school to go R since it would do you no good for the school anyway.

I'm sure anyone who has been to an Evo phase 1 school will probably agree. I would also highly recommend an Evo Phase 2 school as well, that one has been my favorite so far out of the 1, 2 and challenge.

Oops, sorry for going off topic.

 

Agreed, not for the Evo School, but probably after so you can begin to learn them.
Unfortunately, there's not really a good cheap R compound for the MINI unless you have a Cooper and run 15's, then you can run a Victoracer in a 205/50R15.
If you're in an S, you may want to consider running a very sticky street tire as suggest. Or, if you have the money, check out the link above about the R3S04, I've gotten pretty good life out of them, but they are expensive still.


Brian

 

Yeah, the R3S04's might be a bit too pricey for me at this point. I'm guessing that the other Kuhmo options fall into the don't last that long catagory as no one has mentioned them yet.

I just saw that Tire Rack is getting rid of their A3S04's on closeout. I can definitely handle the $119/tire but how long will they last?

If I do go with the sticky street tire route, how much will I be giving up vs. the R-Comps? How much better would sticky street tires be compared with my current Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3's?

Adam

 

I ran Kumho V700's last year got 70 runs no cords. The grip started going away after 55 runs. Although they cost less you will want to shave them which is an additional $15 per tire. If the Hoo$iers are a little high for you and you want something that will last, go for Kumho Victoracers in 225/50/16's. You migh get slight rubbing on the control arms in the rear but they are one of the lowest priced R's out there.

 

I'd recommend a set of ECSTA V700, full tread in 205/40 16 size. Run them at the EVO school and for about 6 events. If they then show a lot of wear on the shoulder, have them flipped and run them for the remainder of your season. You will NOT find a less expensive R tire. IMO, having them shaved is a waste of good rubber and money.

 

Before you go out and auto x some v700's unshaved read this thread.
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=20387

 

Tom, this is a fairly common misconception.

Here is my personal experience with V700's. In 2003 I ordered two sets of tires, one shaved, one not shaved (to be used as intermediates). I got over double the mileage out of the shaved tires, similar number of heat cycles for both tires.

As mentioned in the other thread, the unshaved tires suffer from tread squirm and overheat, radically decreasing tire life.

The shaved tires will last longer than unshaved, in normal racing conditions. Friends with RWD cars have experienced this too.

HTH

 

One of the intriguing things about message boards on the internet is the diversity of experiences you encounter when asking for advise. Everyone has an opinion that is based on some kind of rationalization. I will stick with my opinion, thanks anyway. I have run Kumho "R" tires since 1998 on three different cars. I never ran a shaved set and most likely never will. Kumho tires are the best value for money available and always have been since their introduction. Why anyone would choose to spend $60.00 more than the price of the tires to have good rubber removed is beyond me. My unshaved Kumho's have always lasted as long as anyone else that I am aware of. The compound always looses grip from heat cycling long before the cords show. This is in total contrast to a tire currently made in Indiana.

I stand by my recommendation to a novice competitor. You won't get better value for money than an unshaved V700.

 

Because the heat that tires develop is greatly from the flexing of the compound. The more compound (unshaved tires), the more heat that is generated from the additional compound flexing. The additional material in unshaved tires also creates more heat to dissapate, and the thicker material makes it harder to dissipate the heat from deeper within the tread. With unshaved tires, this becomes a losing battle, and this is why people spend $60 more to have "good" rubber removed.

 

I miss the 70's where we ran whatever street tires we could find cheap and had a great time doing it. Pump 'em up to about 40psi and go to town. . .

I want to get back into AutoX but I don't think I'm smart enough to figure out what tires to use. . .

Bill

 

[QUOTE=nygaard]Because the heat that tires develop is greatly from the flexing of the compound. The more compound (unshaved tires), the more heat that is generated from the additional compound flexing.


I guess I'm confused, I've been under the impression that National Level Soloists have "tire warmers" to make sure that their tires are warm. I could also swear that Formula 1 drivers squirm all over the track on their warmup lap to get heat into their tires. Are you saying that it is better to run on cold tires?

 

Road Race tires take more time to heat up. In general, the longer they'll last, the more time it takes to get them up to temperature.

Where you've seen soloists trying to keep the heat in their tires is at National Tours or events where there's more time between runs. You're also thinking of tires that could handle the heat better and on cars that aren't as tough on tires.
The MINI, however, because of the lack of camber, weight distribution, and drive wheels, heats up front tires VERY quickly.
Consider all of that, then add in tire manufactures all competing for that "fastest tire", almost irrelevant to the heat sacrifice. The MINI on those tires is a recipe for disaster, IMO.

At a Pro Solo, with 4 thirty second runs almost consecutively, burns up tires badly.

The Kumho Ecsta V700 was obviously designed to be stickier than the Victoracer. Because the MINI rides on the 1-2" of shoulder on the tire, and the Ecsta V700 has a lot of tread blocks there, it creates a squirmy and chunking situation. By shaving them you avoid some of the excess heat from the squirming, possibly avoiding the blistering effect that ensues.

There's a fine line between tires being their stickiest, and getting greasy. On the MINI, that line is REALLY thin. The tires that get heat in them very fast are going to be fastest on the first run in some cases.
The Falken Azenis is similar on hot days. They get greasy quick, and spraying them doesn't even help much because the core retains the heat.

Hope this helps.

Brian

 

Hi Brian,
As you know, I am not "new" to Solo. I am fascinated by how a thread started by a novice asking for advice quickly becomes a thesis on how "national level" competitors justify tire expenses that are almost out of control.

I happen to believe that Adam, who originated this thread, probably is looking for an economical and uncomplicated way to enjoy Solo while learning the difference between "street tires" and "R" tires. If you were starting out as a first time Evolution School participant who did not want to buy multiple sets of "R" tires, what would you suggest? I suggested unshaved V700's, shame on me!

 

If you're in a MINI Cooper, Victoracer V700's in a 205/50R15 on stock 15" wheels. If you're in a MINI Cooper S on 16's, I personally wouldn't get anything but the R3S04 Hoosiers or Ecsta V710's. Or, just get a set of Falken Azenis for the school in a 215/45R16.

Tom, I've seen what a MINI does to Ecsta V700's. If you had good luck with them, you're one of the few. It is a less expensive tire, but I've seen them corded in one school before.

Adam, you ran a D.C. Region Level 1 School. I personally would suggest you do a Level 2 before the Evo School, but timing is everything I guess.

Brian

 

Given that the V710s are not available, and may not be again in time for any competition this summer, what's a recommended second choice for a Cooper S for competition? 05s? Is that what everyone was running at Atwater?

 

I finished 4th on R3S04's in a single driver car 3 seconds off of fast time after 2 days. Abe took first and his codriver Jason took second on AS04's. Third place went to Jacob and his codriver Shalyn took 5th on AS05's.

We ran first thing in the morning, temperatures were almost 60 degrees. It wasn't all tire difference, but their ability that led to their win.

That being said my tires have 39 runs on them, 2 Tours, 1 Pro and a couple local events. The are still going strong and I will be running them at the Pro this weekend. A series may be a bit faster, how much is up to debate. They don't last as long. Abe and Jason just about corded a new set at The San Diego Tour after 22 runs.

 

Congrats on the 4th place trophy!!! What were the temperatures during your runs?

 

I've said this several times, but I'll say it again since I love to give away "secrets" :

The Road Race compound, IMO, is just as fast as the Autocross compound once it gets heat in it (until the S05 came out). The S05 is clearly stickier, BUT, goes away very quickly.

At a Pro, you'll REALLY appreciate having the R's.
To clarify, I won the 2002 Peru Pro on 50 run R3S03's against Terranova and Chiles, and the Atlanta, D.C., and Peru Pro's last year on R3S04's.
Is it always going to be the fastest? Nope.
A bad decision example is this: I lost by .1 overall to Chiles on Sunday morning at the Pro Finale last year. I wished I was on A's that morning.

To me, the ideal setup will be to run the R's in the heat, the A's in the cold.

Good Luck!
Brian

 

It didn’t quiet make it to 60 at the start of the first run group. 4th run group was around 75. These are air and not surface temperatures.

I can't wait for the afternoon runs.:smile:

 

I talked to Mike at Vilven tire yesterday and he said that some more 710's(16") are in USA and should be at his warehouse at the end of the week/early next week.
No 225-50-14's for me though....
Congrats to my NWR buddies in Cali and good luck this weekend!
FM