Safety on the racetrack has been a hot topic lately, but has unfortunately been diluted with off topic postings.
Let's use this thread as a place to discuss safety on the track, including rules, common knowledge, common sense and all questions concerning safety on the track, be it HPDE or all out racing.
I hope no one will hesitate in posting questions here due to the fact that they 'think' they should already know. We never stop learning and on this topic especially.

 

Thanks for keeping the safety posting going.

I have a question on the master disconnect switch? I have come up with a way to make it work correctly in the MINI S but are looking at other options. What have people been doing? The S has two cables one to the ECU and one to the starter/Alternator. Which cable to break with a switch, one or both, do we break the alternator + wire as well? Do you install in the back, front drivers side or passenger side?

The solution I came up with uses a 4 pole switch, a high amp solenoid, a low amp relay and other parts. Looking for something simpler.

 

This isn't really a race car question but a driver safety related question.

For autocross use (I'm not planning on heading out to the track again without a cage) in an otherwise stock MINI, I'm considering the following:

• Schroth MINI Quick Fit Pro (HANS compatible) ($300)
• Model 20 Economy HANS ($865)

NOTE: airbags would not be disabled.

Thoughts on this?

 

There have been many concerns in the recent days about some of our NAM members hitting the track in ill prepared cars. Though everyone who decides to either race or do an HPDE is in fact responsible to make sure they have done there homework, it can be a difficult task if you just don't know where to find the answers.
Most new comers to the track solely rely on the hope that the club in which they are participating with will show then the way, but as seen in several cases this is unfortunately not the case.
I would always recommend starting with reading the rules. What rules? Well I personally would suggest starting out with the very clean and simple rules from the BMWCCA. These rules seem to follow the basics of the SCCA and when the SCCA updates their rules then the BMWCCA seems to follow suit. Give these rules a good read and start from there. If you have questions, which you should, then ask here if you like as I think we have the knowledgeable among us to help you out.
The best place to go after this is the SCCA web site and there you can download the their rule book, in sections or in whole. I would say that the SCCA is the standard and if you go by their rules then most likely you will be covered for all other clubs out there. I might also say that about the BMWCCA rules
On a personal note it is in fact a great concern of mine that no one in, or outside of, our Mini community get hurt on the track due to poor safety installations or the lack there of. We have been seeing too much of`this lately and I for one want do what I can to help it stop happening.

BMWCCA RULES

SCCA RULES

 

Dave,
I don't auto-x, but I have some thoughts.
This might be the only situation where the expense of a Hans is not really at the top of the safety list. As far as I know in auto-x
there are really no walls or other cars to hit. It's the sudden frontal impact, or even a side impact that the Hans comes to into play. I would think that hitting anything in an auto-x is very rare, no?
A Hans will not help in rollovers and I think that a role over might be the accident of chance in auto-x.
I'll defer to those that really know auto-x.

 

In general I think that's true. And I haven't made up my mind yet if I'm going to down this path, just kicking it around. However, I already saw one experienced driver go into a light stantion at an event (when i was back in Denver) after trying to recover when the back end started coming around. $1200 doesn't seem like that much money if you were to actually have an accident where it would have helped. But yeah, the probability is low.

How about raising the probability a bit by introducing DE's into the equation? I know a lot of MINI owners are using the previous gen harness (the non HANS one) without a cage for DE's.

 

Dave, I have been AutoX'ing for a couple of years now in the MINI. Here's my humble opinion:

Schroth harness: A BIG YESSSS!
It keeps your heinie planted in the seat and you expend less energy hanging on so you can focus on driving.

Hans: No.
The chances of injuring yourself in an AutoX are pretty dang small. I've never heard of a hard frontal impact. I think you'd be better off spending the $865 on something that will help either turn faster or stop quicker.

Now.... when it comes to track days or HPDE, I'm seriously considering getting the HANS to go with my Schroth. That's where it is needed.

 

This thread may get confusing with questions and answers getting intertwined...

I'm thinking of signing up for an event with COM, a New England organization. Their rulebook says:

"All roll cages/bars must be padded with non-resilient material
such as Ethafoam or Ensolite with a minimum thickness of 1/2"
in all areas which may come in contact with the driver's
and/or instructor's helmet. Similar padding is recommended in
areas where the driver's and/or instructor's arms or legs may
come in contact with the roll cage/bar."

I know nothing about rollbar padding, so what steps do I need to take before showing up at Mont Tremblant and getting turned away becuase I don't pass tech? Where to buy padding? How much to buy? How to install? etc...

On another note, what do people think about this revised passing policy?

http://www.wmc-bmwcca.org/documents/Passing_policy.pdf

It doesn't apply to me (yet) as I'm still in group 2, not yet in group 1. But, the idea does kinda of worry me.

 

That sounds an awful lot like the rules in NASA HPDE 4 desgination, except then there is no additional specific course.

 

Most racing supply shops will have padding in stock, or you can order it online.
Pegasus is near where I live & run by good people.
http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/gro...roupID=ROLLPAD

 

Jason,
Another source (as there are many) that is good would be HMS. Being that they are very involved with BMWCCA, you'll be sure to get the right stuff. What you are looking for is the SFI approved high density padding. Padding is hardly a good description for this stuff as it is very firm to say the least.
I would think that the only place, if anywhere, on your rollbar that you need it is on the diagonal bar in the hoop, up near the head. This stuff just gets tie wrapped on so installation is quite easy

Probably a better question for the Driver's School Threads.
Interesting idea that would only effect the orange stripers, so I'm not sure where the basis is for doing this. You still can't pass those who don't have the orange stripes, which may most likely be the front of the train anyway.
Not sure how I feel about it. As a sideliner I might say that it's not a good idea, but as someone that may get orange stripes, I think I would really enjoy it.

 

Hello Rich, It's Bob here. I'm just finishing up our USTCC Mini, & we just broke the main positive battery cable before the battery post & added our master disconnect switch in-line there. Works like a charm on all the race cars we've built, including the Mini! You can also brake the negative cable with your cutoff switch, either way works. BTW, we received our USTCC race series decals & our car is lucky #4. I look forward to finally meeting you soon in person at the track!
Cheers, Bob

 

hey! that's my old rig.

 

Have you seen it coming along?
Relevance due to cage etc.
http://www.motoringunderground.com/f...ead.php?t=1394

 

I broke the positive at the battery, but with the engine running and turning the switch off it kept running. Found we needed to break the alt positive wire to shut down. But needed a high amp soleniod up front to keep from running wire to the switch and back.

 

I would venture an opinion that the HANS device would really only be a benefit if the airbags were disconnected.

 

Rich, Your right! I stand corrected just got home & had a look a our switch, it has 4 terminals 2 large & 2 small. The large two switch the main + positive cable & the smaller two switch the charging circuit on & off. Cheers, Bob

 

This is the reason I run in NASA HPDE 3 .... There are point bys and restraint in passing (by most)

HPDE 4 is the TT (Time Trial) Cars and Experts that are racing against the clock for best times .... Most have R compound tires and race prepped cars. Most instructors run in group 3 or 4

Me ..... I am just getting seat time, testing, learning, improving and passing the cars as I can

 

 

One more HANS question: is there anywhere that rents HANS devices?

 

Good question Dave!

Sort of along those lines, what's the input on this system, which can be rented for 65 bucks?

http://www.isaacdirect.com/

 

Is that document real or is it a joke? If it’s real, I say I don't want to be on the track at a DE where a guy "learned" and earned (?) his passing stripes. I don't need a pretend racer using me as a curb. What is wrong with learning how to pass like I did: in a race kart? Why not just black flag the leading car and tell him to watch his mirrors or go home?

 

Greg,
Thanks for this safety thread.
Well, I just bit the bullet and purchased the following safety upgrades:
Autopower cage/roll bar - bolt in version.
Sparco pro2000 seat.
Hans Device (recommended by mothers every where) - got in on a initial (local) dealer offering price of $800.
A 6pt harness will go in also.

Just need to install all this stuff and work on a side airbag defeat.

 

Mickey,
Great to hear this. $800 for a Hans is about the best I've heard, good for you

Are you removing the passenger seat or just leaving that in?
Hey, do you use that shifter extension? Did that work for you at all?

 

Greg,
That shifter extension is fantastic!
What a great improvement to a short shift kit.
Can't believe no one else has come out with this, yet.
I would not run without one now.
Lots of folks at the track inquire about it and they want one too.
I want a "onasled racing" badge to put on my car - get busy!

Passenger seat is out for now. All gutted in the back too.
Would like to figure out the side airbag resistor trick.


If anyone would like to get a Hans for this price, please contact Monty at Livermore Performance.
It is a great deal and a worthy safety device.
http://www.livermoreperformance.com/lpi_info_page.html

Great folks there, tell them Mickey sent you.
disclaimer: I am in no way, shape or form, associated with Livermore Performance. I do not receive any benefits from recommending them. They are just great folks to deal with and very involved in grass roots racing.
Plus, I want to see every racer have this in their battle gear inventory.