Within the Class 2,3,5 the MINIs are pretty equal within each class, at least as far as the mods and HP limits are. Know if I go to a NASA even if I'm lucky I'll see two other MINIs there (sometimes you hope to even see that many enroute) and I'll spend the whole day going (even though points are different its whos next to you on the track) with a few Miatas and Civic as well as Porsches, M3s, Camaros and the like.

GT3 vs MINI or MINI with 209HP and a MINI with 200HP you tell me which one is even remotely close assuming the drivers know what they're doing.

 

Not as I read it. Everything is free save the some engine modifications. And HP is what matters least on a track. (Driver, weight, tires, suspension, and brakes trump HP.)

Isn't NASA trying to start a Spec Mini series?

 

This is the key to what is going on. The " series " has had a underwhelming response with entrants. From what I can see there have been an average of four or five cars spread out over 3 classes. If Randy didn't run the " fast " class would have had one entrant. There have been a few times this year where there have only been one entrant per class and I am sure that the management was trying to prevent that from happening again. Im not saying the waiver was correct, far from it, I am just offering a possible explanation. The series was a great idea unfortunately too few decided to enter for whatever reason. I have no idea why some are persuing it at the expense of their customer service as Mr. Webb has apparently been doing based on the posts of others on this and other forums . I just do not see where the benefit of this series, if any , outweighs the expense in so many ways.

 

To race in an all MINI series, trackster. And we are working on the other aspects of our business at the same time - racing allows us to bring products to market other companies don't.

As for the safety - give it up! We track test all the time wheel to wheel with not only cars, but cars and bikes together, and most if not all are street cars. It depends on the awareness level of the drivers.

Remember when racing was dangerous and sex was safe?

Randy

 

NASA has a spec MINI series, and if I'm ready next year and run seriously I'll probably be the only MINI that makes it to half to 75% the events; the spec MINI is there but it is still small, just distance wise I'm looking into doing it cause it means that then I can do 8 races within 1k miles, instead of having to go more than 2k miles to get to a race; but running spec MINI also means you have to share the track with everyone else, and constantly havong to give the pass by to other much higher HP cars and not getting to run with many similarly match cars takes much of the fun out of the day.

 

What exactly are you saying here Randy. ????

 

Treading lightly on safety, are you? What do you think is a more important safety item for a racing street car: the driving suit or HANS?
If what you are really looking for is a spec series the Wick series is not one. America is hard pressed to come up with these types of successful series like the European countries can and do. Some of it has to do with tax law, some geographic size, and some of it is cultural. To develop products, though, a spec series is not required. Stay on the right track!

 

I applaud your efforts to do both but you have chosen a very difficult task. For example it is good to see you back online but until yesterdays post it has been about 16 days since you were last in contact with your NAM faithfull. Some may think that a long time to be out of touch .

As for product development according to the exhaust thread many would hope you were perhaps testing that as well . Without letting out any secrets what exclusive track developed products may we expect to see on your site in the future?

If it is your opinion that the safety issue was not a big deal perhaps you could convince the series managment of that and open it up to more cars? I know that having more than a handfull of cars would give the event some credability.

In any event nice to see you back and in one piece .

 

What I am saying is that these cars are inherently safe out of the box - how many have we seen roll at driver eds with no injury? How many expert class driver eds allow passing anywhere - all that I know of. That is just about wheel to wheel racing as well, just without times. None of those cars are caged either. I think safety is important, and build cages that reflect that, but for anyone to say that I (or the other car that ran without a cage) am irresponsible and letting down those who see me as a "role model" because we made a one time exception with a field of less than ten cars wiht responsible drivers who have all driven together in the past and all have experience on the track is just plain silly.

Greg, how many driver events did you attend with your car without a cage? I know there are plenty who do and it is sanctioned by most clubs in the expert class. That doesn't make it unsafe.

Trackster - we have a couple of products developed for street cars for safety and reliability based on our experiences this season. I can't let the cat out of the bag yet though. I also have used the development of both cars to determine exhaust development direction - and we continue to reliability test the prototype on Brian's car. 16 days for me not to post doesn't mean I'm not reading, and Brian is diligent here on NAM so that none of the WMS customers go without. As for opening it up, like I said, I made a one time decision based on several factors to run the car I did (and I would do it again). It isn't up to me, but if you want track time without a cage, it is certainly there for the taking.

This series has potential, and my company will continue to support it. The biggest obstacle has been geographic, and that is being dealt with a bit by splitting the series next year - we will continue to work on it.

I am all for safety, but common sense as well. If you are not involved in the exact events, you can't possibly comment on the safety of a particular event. I didn't have a HANS when I hit the wall by the way, and I walked away without injury (90 or so I'd guess into the tire barrier then the wall). Again, the more you can do to prevent injury, the better, but I don't appreciate judgement from a Monday morning quarterback with no background on the situation. I could be "burned alive" by walking outside and getting pinned by a car while crossing a street in a crosswalk (even one with a full cage ).

Randy

 

Personally I have never been on a track without a roll bar, seats and 6 point harness, and only a very few times without a Hans.
Randy, you need to step back and look at this. You might want to get off the defensive podium and back onto the responsible podium here. I'm actually a bit shocked that you would post this. It's where I thought you might be going with the "give it up" but figured I had to be wrong.

OK, now to **** a lot of people off.
The Wicks series is ridiculous in the way it is run. To let people who have never even been on the track before race after completing only one poorly run Wicks DE is just plane outrageous. I can tell you for fact that there are several good racers I know that will not even consider racing in that series with the possibility that there are people out there racing who in fact have never even attended any type of racing school, let alone a decent DE
.
OK, back on topic. DEs are NOT racing. One may NOT pass without a "pass-by" signal from the person being passed. Such passing may only be done on specified sections of the track which are always straights, if long enough. This is NOT racing so to make the comparison is "silly".
Any DEs I have been to, BMWCCA, PCA, SDCA, would NEVER even let a person go solo after just one DE. It takes usually about five DEs even for the best newcomers to get signed off. Wicks lets people race after one DE? Not even a race school? Talk about "silly". Someone will get hurt if this continues, no doubts about it. I for one don't want to be out there when it happens.
Personally I'm getting a bit tired of this whole Wicks hype. I think it should just go away as it just seems to be getting more ridiculous by the day. Now that I'm hearing that along with "no experience needed" Wicks now has "No safety equipment needed" policy........it just blows me away
If people want to race then they should do it the right way, and Wicks seems far from that. Not sure why people are not just getting involved in BMWCCA or NASA. If you guys want to race all the same cars then get a Spec Miata or something. But if you do, don't think that you'll be out racing in a few weekends if you don't hold any "real" racing license, ..... and don't think your going to get any kind of waver when you show up without the required racing equipment. By that way, what other racing club honors the Phil Wicks racing license?

 

NASA honors the Wicks license.

I am just saying to use some common sense and not be an A-hole in the name of safety. I am saying nothing was unsafe about me running a car without a cage.

Everyone I know in the series has another racing license as well, so I haven't seen the "race after one DE" happen.

As far as the expert class DEs I have been to (and I instruct for SCCA, NASA, PCA, BMWCCA and Wicks), there are no pass by signals - only in the lower classes. To compare that to racing is certainly not silly (but I like the play on my own words you used ).

I am glad you believe in the HANS device and safety. That does not mean that because something does not meet your definition of safety that it isn't safe. That's what I believe, and I test, as I said earlier, on track very responsibly with several street cars. Stuff happens, and you can do everything you like to avoid injury. I encourage it. I don't appreciate a motherly tone with regard to safety at an event you weren't even attending.

I BELIEVE IN SAFETY - I'M A PILOT FOR CHRIST SAKES - AND IF THE WRONG MISTAKES ARE MADE ON THE STREET, THE TRACK, IN THE AIR OR WALKING DOWN THE STREET, PEOPLE CAN DIE That's not what is going on in the series, and I'm sure Phil doesn't appreciate your opinion of him, and I don't either. You are entitled to it however, and I think my point has been adequately stated. No more back and forth from here .

Randy

 

I think NASA acepts it as a provisinal lisence based on their FAQ response off to check the CCR. I couldn't make the 300 mile journey to the other side of Iowa this weekend to participate in the regional NASA event, however, I think NASA is a safe group and after seeing them in action on a combination day with the Wicks school I have little to no issue running with NASA. The Wicks day is one of those schools that ends up being what you make of it, I know some that went and almost missed any instruction whatsoever (I think there was even one or two that did miss out) but I request and got instructors for the majority of the day and learned a lot; I won't go W2W until I am a comfortable driver in NASA group 4, which if I make it out to several track days the rest of the summer AND do several AutoXs (any time the cost is under 100 I go) then I'd say by mid-spring that I'd have that oppurtunity.

As far as racing with MINIs is concerned (think I'm the one who brought that up) I'd like to have the oppurtunity once in a while unfortunately not many are very involved with NASA yet. I think that will change as time goes on and more people start to race MINIs; I think the number wicks put out there on WRR radio was that only 30 or so MINIs across the US were actually racing competitively, thats 1.6 per state, so if your lucky there will be 5 that make it out.

I think the school and race distinction has already been made and as far as safety goes, I think the school is a much more controlled enviroment so the need isn't as pressing for some of the equipment, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.

I think Randy does bring up a good point that is getting lost in the fact that not all the equipment was there and that is; you can't build common sense into a car; 99% of the saftey risk is in the drivers head and that can be from someone getting over-egar to not paying attention to whats going on around them. This common sense gets built up over time, some quicker than others

 

It is a fledgling race series, trying to get interest .... It is a daunting task, the race prepped MINIs are quite rare in these parts, they are still not cheap enough to pick up used and prep for the average guy

There are some "Loose" rules and requirements to encourage entries, luckily, it is a small field

I applaud it and Phil Wicks for trying to establish a "MINI RACE SERIES" ... I understand next year it will have more rules and regulations

At NASA events I attend, there are literally 100s of cars, most have quite a bit of experience as well, and it is tightly regulated and staffed well, The Phil Wicks DEs are not as organized or attended (But still teach and still have passing zones, rules and instructors), they just don't have the numbers or staff to compare to a BMWCCA event, PCA or NASA HPDE or Race Events

I personally was Black Flagged twice at a Phil Wicks HPDE at Autobahn Country Club last year, so they do enforce rules (1 for excess speed in parking lot, 1 for initiating a pass too early coming onto the front straight- Driver slowed, was waving me to go past as I started onto the straight, I should have waited or braked)

I have NOT raced in the NAMMCC....Personally, I don't have the time and in some extent, I don't feel very comfortable going wheel to wheel with "agressive" racers, who don't need their car to drive home in. I continue to gain track experience and may enter the events when I find more time and confidence

Maybe one day I will race in the NASA Spec Series, my car is set up now for that. I have the stock flywheel, etc ...

I say it is good for the MINI owners to have their own series, just a bit premature I would say to be a big turnout ?

Phil

 

I see things got lively here!

From a guy who has never tracked his MCS, or any car, my opinion doesn't mean much, so I won't bother going somewhere I can't fully comprehend. I will share matters from my perspective though... and I hope it can be appreciated.

I was planning to attend a driver's school of some sort, at some point-in-time. After learning about the aforementioned Wicks one at Laguna Seca, I was a bit shocked.

Flashback a couple of years...

On my wedding day, I was called-out by family & friends, in front of nearly 100 or so folks, to stop my solo mountain climbs, climbing trees on my land with chainsaws, and yes, driving way too fast on public roads. I addressed each one, making promises and compromises, to strike some kind of agreement with loved ones. It was funny, but deadly serious also, for a good reason.

I get to climb two more mountains, but with a team. Chainsaws are only to be used on trees when my feet are on the ground, or directly on a firmly-placed ladder. My driving... can be spirited, but only on the remote canyon roads that surround my home... I made it clear that I would pursue track time, and a driver's school initially so I can be instructed properly, and under the best of supervision.

Upon reading about the incidents and seeing the damage at that driving school, and with my wife asking what happened (she often checks-out NAM with me), I had to say that it was from... well, a driving school. Not exactly the kind of segue I wanted as I plan to attend one of the these, but a reality, from an outsider.

Between the driving school, and the expressed concerns here, my opinon of Phil Wicks is not what it once was...

Hey Randy, through all of these posts, did you see the link to the in-car vids you wanted?

 

Wait until you have kids..........

 

Oh, I'm reminded of that... just today, again. Totally fine with the trade-offs, really. Nice being cared for... and caring for others. I wouldn't change a thing.

I got a couple quick PMs empathizing (thank you), and at the same time informing me of local, top-notch driving schools. I apologize if I posted too much out of context here guys...

We all love our MINIs, and love to drive them, some more competitively than others, that's for sure. And we all want safety for everyone involved, and I'm sure we all would agree that this should be of the highest importance. I'll leave it at that...

 

[quote=RandyBMC]Don,

No, I was in Florida at the time, and the incident occured at Moroso. I can't really speak poorly of Peter, as he taught me quite a bit. I'm not familiar with his business practices though (I was very young when I worked for Promotion Motorsports).

As for us not returning calls - we are working diligently on that and email, and those of you who have called since we have returned from St. Louis know all about that. Our website will always take orders as well, even when we can't get to the phone. We are getting much better, but of course there is always more to be done!

I love challenging new tracks - Laguna Seca was new to me and didn't seem all that daunting. Pueblo was too at one time, and again, I enjoyed the challenge. I may not know the limits, but it'll be fun just to race - and I like to race to win. I look forward to Summit Point - anyone know any good in-car video?

I also still need a bonnet - what did you do with your old one Steve?
Dear Randy, I would have offered you my old bonnet however it was damaged last year when I tapped the guard rail at Barber which is why I changed bonnets.
Ada Cheung may still have her old one although her reoson for changing may have also been due to an incident last year. I will check at my local Mini dealer to see if they have one available.
Glad to hear you wil make back to Summit with the Mule.
Good luck,
Steve

 

Randy-
You wrote:
"I have a failed ABS sensor - one that actually had shown up earlier, but rectified itself (these cars sometimes do that), so I hadn't thought about it since."
I'm trying to gain some knowledge/insight here.
Were you standing on the pedals or brushing the brakes?
Did only one wheel lock?
Do you know what caused the failure?
Does a dash light come on and inform of the failure?
Since only one input can be effective, why did you choose to brake instead of turn the wheel?
Thanks in advance for your answers; they could really shed some light on this potential problem.
Don

 

I CAN address some of these concerns and give you a simplified synopsis of what took place at Laguna Seca:

I have attended 3 of the Phil Wicks Schools, mostly to pick up track time and to see how my MINI does compared to other MINIs on the track, and get instruction from another MINI expert driver perhaps

The schools were SMALL (30-50 cars?) and included other clubs, drivers from Miata, Audi, Lotus clubs ...those are who I ended up with as an Instructor, it was fine and I learned some, got better, they knew the tracks, ALL was good, etc ...

I do other driving schools and time trial racing in the OneLap of America as well

Then comes Laguna Seca ...A "MINIs ONLY" event .... Instructors were sought and some found, I was one.... There was around 100 cars !!!! I was assigned 3 students, there were 3 run groups, 1 and 2 were students, 3 was instructors AND racers

The difficulty was: running with a student in my car every time was good..then pulling in , parking and then looking for any 1 of my students ... Who, as I pulled off the track, were being corraled onto the track ... some waited, some didn't !!

I ended up instructing 4 or 5 during the day, some not even assigned to me, but responded when I asked," Do you need an instructor? ", i believe 4 or 5 ran passenger with me for a whole session as well

Point bys were used, racers didn't use them, but students did for the most part- some didn't and didn't seem to have an instructor to tell them to ?

Several of the major incidents were with students on track without an instructor, none mine, 1 hit the tire wall sideways, 1 flipped, both unhurt ....Both later in the day ... I never saw a near incident when I rode with a student

 

Not sure completely yet - which is what I stated above, more investigation is continuing. I know for sure one of the sensor lines is rubbed through, but I'm not sure if that is the extent of the damage.

I was braking into the braking zone - the wheels locked and the car slid. When threshhold braking, you only have time for one thing - and it was braking. I lifted and turned, but without losing enough speed, the car didn't turn in before I hit the grass.

Dash light yes, but not until after the failure - both fronts locked - standing on the brakes.

Hope that helps!
Randy

 

Randy, thanks for the input. Are you running with the wheel well liners in or removed? I.e., what do you think caused the inital damage to the sensor line?

 

Phil (RED FURY) thanks for your insight, and thoughtful reply. It sounds as though the instructor to student ratio was not what it needed to be for proper instruction and supervision; sort of hit-or-miss, no pun intended...

In an ideal world, I suppose one would expect some kind of recognition of this, prior to the mishaps, and with that, appropriate intervention, and changes made...

This thread is about the Gateway race, but with the raised concerns and subsequent change of topic to safety, I referenced the driving school for the same reasons. I realize it's a senstitive topic... it's just an important one. Thank you.

 

We always recommend the use of the liners - they prevent belt failures among other things. I'm not sure yet what caused the damage, but we have figured out how to keep anything from happening to it...

 

From Randy's post earlier
That's right the Mad Dog Turbo car will be there but where you got the idea that it's made from Helix parts is beyond us

 

Phil Wicks is trying very hard to get a spec MINI series going in the States that will rival the MINI Challenge in Europe. It is a daunting uphill struggle for one man with an idea and the guts to follow through and I think he's doing it well, despite the criticism. Mistakes have been made, but no one denies that. Phil and a very few volunteer staff are constantly working to rectify mistakes and to make sure they are not repeated in the future.

Remember this is a grassroots effort. BMWCCA and NASA are huge organizations that have been around for years and they do not have a MINI only class. MINI USA refuses to support or sponsor a race series, holding out contingency money for competition with one hand while voiding the warranty of anyone who applies for it with the other. It's up to Phil to make the NAMCCRS the kind of success that attracts the big sponsor bucks and he spends most of his time pursuing that goal. You will start to see the results of his negotiations at Summit Point as televised coverage of the NAMCCRS begins. And there will be more to come.

Suffice it to say there are many exciting new things planned for 2007 and beyond. The only one I can talk about now are the Regional Races in 2007; we are planning at least three in the East, three in the West with a National Runoff in the Midwest as a finale. That should help the racers keep their over the road mileage down and make for some exciting racing when East meets West at the runoffs.

Despite the criticism and finger pointing, I think everyone here would be thrilled to see a safe, well organized spec MINI race series take off in this country. So instead of fixing the blame, let's fix the problem. Volunteers are needed at every venue. Instead of taking potshots from the safety of your keyboard, how about lending a hand to help make those changes you think are so important?

If you're in the west, PM me and I'll get you spun up for our season finale at Buttonwillow Racway October 30th. If you're in the East, call Phil. If you're in the Midwest, call Pete Taylor. We'd love for you to lend a hand in promoting our sport, and if we don't do it, who will?

Cheers,

Jerry Bradbury
Director Western Region
Phil Wicks Racing