Let me pass along a unfortunate story which happened at our local track last summer . This is not a put down on Schroth , I used to use them and liked them a lot, but a warning what not to do in conjunction with their use.
I call this the " perfect storm " of a crash. Had any one element not been in play the driver would still have a recognizable face. A Subaru wrx at a tack day veers on the front straight to avoid a wheel liner which had popped out of the car in front of him. In doing so he over corrects and veers off track. He hits the only solid object on the inside of the front straight a 10ft cement block wall put there to protect flagmen/ photographers. He hits head on into the wall at approx 80 mph. His belts stretch which in itself is not a bad thing but he is wearing a open face helmet. This also is not that bad of a thing but he has put a Sparko ( no air bag ) wheel on his car. His face makes serious contact with the metal wheel and he is air lifted to a hospital in critical condition.
The moral to this story is if you use the schroth system wear a full coverage helmet and do not disable the air bag.

Randy
M7 Tuning

 

Good advice, which also applies to using the stock seatbelts.

Most of us have probably seen those videos of IIHS barrier crash tests. Those are performed at only 30 or 35 mph but result in huge damage. Now scale that up to 80 mph, bearing in mind that the car's kinetic energy increases with the square of its velocity, and you a have a very ugly picture indeed.

Neil
05 MCS
96 M3

 

Just to put that in a little further perspective, if a vehicle hits an immovable barrier head on at 80 mph, and comes to a stop in 3 ft as the front end crushes, that's a 49g accident. While 49g is very survivable in a modern racecar with state of the art construction and restraint systems, it would likely result in serious or fatal injury in a street car.

Why did I choose 3ft? That's about the distance from a Mini's front bumper to the base of the windshield.

So let's drive carefully, but plan for the alternative...

Neil
05 MCS
96 M3

 

...funny, I also questioned, in another thread I began, full face helmets and air bags... I was asking about three individual saftey components while now they appear as one safety system. Lots of great help here.

I've got the airbag, I've got the G-force helmet, now, I need the appropriate belt.

Niel, I'll check that web site out more today...but I'm sure to have a few more questions if you guys don't mind. I've always said if I go, I want to go doing something I enjoy...not really sure I need to be so conscious about the end...

 

Yeah, I think I responded to that one. I don't want to rehash the whole airbag and full face helmet thing, but I did take the opportunity to ask Dr. Melvin about it at the conference I mentioned. His reponse was that the only documented injury has been of a Viper driver who crashed - gee, what are the odds? In that case the airbag caught the bottom edge of his face shield and flipped it up. The open face shield then funneled the deploying airbag directly into the helmet's eye port, causing some facial injury. His advice was while driving an airbag equipped car to wear the helmet but without its shield, and not to wear a helmet (open or closed type) that has an external visor above the eye port.

Works for me!

Neil
05 MCS
96 M3

 

I have a Schroth quick fit in my Mini.

2 Things you will learn ONLY from the Installation instructions.

Use of any seat other than the MINI OEM seat is not to be done.

Schroth has tested the belts in a 31 mph impact. (?)

My interpretation of NASA rules, is that they allow them as OEM DOT alternate belts, in classes that use OEM.

Our local track club allows them if the car is an enclosed car, and they are installed according to the Schroth Instructions.

The MINI inboard seat belt attatchment is a Pyrotechnic tensioner, which operates in conjunction with the rest of the SRS. (Supplemental Restraint System). Schroth depends on that to pull the lap belt down and tight to keep the belt from rising.


EXCERPT FROM INSTRUCTIONS.
SCHROTH U.S. model harnessbelts have been tested in accordance with performance parameters of Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 209 with the exception of Paragraph S 4.6 (full scale impact testing as described in FMVSS 208). FMVSS 209 deals with lap and three point restraints and does not expressly refer to harness belts. SCHROTH has nevertheless applied the performance criteria specified in FMVSS 209 to the system to the extent applicable. These belts, when properly installed and used according to applicable instructions can mitigate injury. The ability of any restraint system to mitigate or prevent injury is directly related to the type and severity of the accident. SCHROTH asm harnessbelts have been tested in dynamic sled tests utilizing a 75 kg (165 lbs) Hybrid II anthropometric dummy to simulate head-on collisions at 50 km/h (31 mph). They also have been dynamically tested utilizing a 75 kg mass dummy in accordance with European Safety Standard ECE-R 16.04.

 

"...a Viper driver who crashed - gee, what are the odds?"

On another note, somewhere in another thread is the Hanns Device...sort of forgot about that one as part of the 'system'. I'm headed there now.

...cannot seem to find it. Must have been a side-tracked discussion. Since I've never used one, nor have I laid eyes on one; these have nothing to do with seat belt and or seat compatability??? Simply device that attaches to the shoulder/neck and helmet?

 

More or less, yes. The Hans is a yoke that fits over the shoulders, with extensions either side in front and a shorter one in back behind the head. It's anchored by the harness shoulder straps passing over it. Tethers connect the yoke to your helmet, which has to have anchors installed on it. This system prevents the neck from being hyper-extended in a frontal accident: think of your harness stopping your body, while otherwise the weight of your head and helmet keep them right on going until your neck stops them. You do need to use a compatible harness.

See pix here: <http://hansdevice.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.2/it.I/id.113/.f>

A standard Hans Model 20 with anchors runs around $900. Hey, it is carbon fibre! The lightweight pro version costs more.

Neil
05 MCS
96 M3

 

I saw in GrassRoots magazine, the new Schroth Harnesses that fits right with the Hans Device, it looked cool, tapered fit

Hybrid II-Hans

http://www.on-trackperformance.com/s...ness_index.htm

 

Yes, I've seen pix of those too. I don't know what it is about how the harness sits on a Hans that makes this desirable/necessary. Maybe somebody who uses a Hans can chime in?

Neil
05 MCS
96 M3

 

Maybe I'll just take it easy, you know, leave that extra 2/10s in my pocket on the track.

 

Take it easy ?? Like these 2 ?

 

The Hans is quite narrow where the shoulder belts come over it. It was a concern for me when I first used mine with the 4" belts, but they work OK. Schroth has had these "Hans" belts for a couple of years now. All I know is that I have never seen anyone use them, so the 4" must not be a problem.

 

would be the look from my office if I damge their car. But yes, exactly what I would really like to avoid. Time for a beater.

Hey, I think he has too much roll stiffness dialed in