opppssss


Dude... if this thing really happens, then I'm bringing my skinny @$$ on a 13 hour flight just to see it. This will definitely the best event that the "NAM community" will benefit of... plus it's lots of fun

 

Now there is FANATIC conviction.... me likey!

 

I am often too subtle...... I don't want controls of any kind but I wanted the suspension thing addressed...... this IMO should be a "run what you brung" format...... car/driver vs car/driver...... I think there would be a hell of a lot of support for this event......

enough of the "fun runs" to coffee and donuts...... let's see some serious $h!t "Mini style"....

There are a lot of cars that don't post on NAM that would love to get in this fight

 

Wasn't this done both by Phil Wicks and by MC2 magazine already?

And at what point does it simply become a battle of budgets?

 

I'd suggest control minimum weight and engine displacement.

My 2 cents.

 

the Phil wicks by MC2 thing happen? I never heard about it...

I dont think so... I mean.. the fact is.. there would be rules.. and byond that... how about how people keep saying... it's not the power... it's brakes its handling... ok so you put yer $ there... some will put thier other places.... some will do it all... ok kewl..

in this case we are talking about the GP with a RMW head.... and Jan with His GP runnign X time...

it's just everyone always talking crap... fine... but let's see what you run... hell just cuase my car has lots of HP doesnt mean joe blow would be able to drive it fast enough... it takes allot of throttle control in the corners when you have this much power.. otehr wise you crash...

so again, bring out what you got... if you dont like that X person is running X time and was the first to do it... beat them and the record... other wise... SHAADDAAP! LOL

 

Exactly dude... whatever you run... I don't care if you have a V8 under there , if it's a MINI then get together for a weekend event at a known track. We all know that a well equipped car will run faster than a stock, but it's nice to see the difference. Any turbos that wanna join Madness?

Damn if this was here, I could try to get one of our companies to sponsor the event

 

Re track times - seat time and driving ability (which always improves after seat time) will make the comparison too tricky.

It'd be better to have an experienced neutral party driver (LOL - if that exists!).

For example it's widely known that DMH is a very quick driver, and in various cars. He's been doing it competitively for some time. He'd be likely to get into a well sorted Cooper and give guys in modded S cars fits. In fact, on tracks with lots of technical sections, he could very well beat some of those who are boasting how fast they are, but they only have a few track days under their belts.

I know this can happen, because I've seen an experienced racer/instructor drive a CVT Cooper faster (on several tracks) than quite a few fast Cooper S cars, some of which were being driven by driving instructors!

So it could be a very useful comparison, as long as a control was entered - an experienced single driver with no agenda other than to go as fast as possible.

 

That would be a great way to test the performance benefits of one engine performance package versus another on a race car. What about street cars? Any volunteers with (stock?) R53s? A possible plan would be to get candidate cars (trying to keep as many factors the same as possible), run them stock, record times using those as the baseline to measure the incremental benefits of the mods.

 

FWIW, the MC2 Dynamic Showcase was organized by Gary Anderson of MC Squared. (If someone is serious, get in touch with Barry at MC Squared, he controls the checkbook.) It wasn't a tuner challenge in the traditional sense, as there were drivers of all ranges, from cluless ones like me to really skilled guys. Two of them were close to or having thier very first track event. The cars varied from clost to stock to pretty well turned out. It was what it was labelled as, a showcase. You had to look very deep into the numbers (and there were too many to go into the article, so I think only a few people did look that deep) to learn anything. I learned that with my car I turned one of the better 40-90 times at the start of the back stretch (read good power) but my lap times were either the worst of the skilled or the best of the unskilled! I was spanked by a Cooper!

Now, as far as getting a run at this, the only way it happened was because there was already someone buying the track. I don't know if or how much money went into the two "showcase" sessions, but if you look at the cost of a track for a day, it ain't cheap, so who's gonna foot the bill?

If you want to make it fly, talk to an organizer of an existing track event (you want Minis only, Hooked on Driving will be doing two mini only events next year) and see if you can get some special sessions.

MSD loaned the lap recording equipment, and offered the discounts, as they sold about 3-4 of the units for $800 instead of the normal ~$1k, I think they were happy.

But it's hard to pull off, a lot of work for sure. Really, I'd think there has to be more of a spirit of comerodery than contention to make it worth anyones effort. I'll hope for the best here.

Matt

 

Maybe it could be piggy-backed onto a Phil Wicks HPDE.

There'd be a lot of interest by the drivers at the event as well.

I don't know anything about that track, but they recently had an event at Hallett in OK.

That'd be pretty centrally located.

 

Let's call on the STIG

 

I am busy.

 

Reading through this thread it seems that there are two things at play.

1. Vendors challenging each others products
2. The desire to have a MINI only track event and shoot it out with each other.

If a track event was to be held and the "death match" between vendors is to determine whose offering is the best in the market a neutral driver is needed...someone with no vested interest in either party or their products but is considered by all parties to be a capable and respected driver. That driver would drive each vendor's example of their level of tuning over the same course a number of times and over a number of sessions. Best, worst, and average times are compiled along with any other data points needed. Based on the information a best of breed is chosen.

The above would make the driver the constant in the equation and the cars/tunes would be the variable. Furthermore there would probably be the need to set basic parameters like tire choice, octane of fuel, minimum weights, etc.


The other option is to just have a MINI owner track event where its competition among friends. In this scenario with the variability of driver experience, car prep, etc. there would be no means to determine if a particular vendor's products was the reason that a car turned a fast time...it could be all driver In this case the constant arguing of who has the best product would still remain undecided but perhaps the people at the event would have had a lot of fun.

Mark

 

Nonononononononooo. NO. That totally takes away the personal nature of this idea. You've seen the threads - they get personal quickly. These guys probably want at each other for personal and automotive bragging rights - competition at its best!

Besides - maybe there are people who respect the better drivers to tell them what to/not to put on/in their cars. Let's settle it from every angle.

mb

 

So let's put this scenario together then. Its Don versus Jan at the track running what they drove in. Agreed upon tire compounds, octane levels, and minimum weights. Each does the course and one smokes the other. Regardless who it is that "wins" I can hear it now...but so and so was not feeling well, wasn't familiar with the course, yada, yada, yada.... It doesn't answer the question that everyone keeps talking trash about. It results in yet another Internet shouting match.

I keep seeing the question of what parts make the best track car, highest horsepower, etc.?...well standardize some aspects of the gathering so that can be determined...if people really want that questioned answered.

If you want to see who the better driver is then have Don and Jan (and however else) pick a neutral car (ie - totally stock with the same tire compounds, octane, etc.) and compare times. That way the driver question gets answered.

If these type of questions really want to be answered and the vendors are agreeable then a level playing field (ie - scientific process) has to be established so that the things you are testing for can really be determined.

Mark

 

"MINI's tuners challenge" and winner will be title "King of the MINI tuners".
The event then is not just for 2 tuners, it will be opened to all MINI tuners.

Base on '02 - '06 R53 MINI MCS, Minimum 2,500 lbs, stock engine displacement, original force induction config (no turbo, no twin-charged, no M62), Dot approved R compound tires/no slick, engine modification are allowed (remain original displacement), transmission, brake and suspension modifications are allowed, pump gas and no nitrous

Time attack format, tuners bring their best drivers.
Who ever wants to win, has got to be ready in all: car, driver and crew.

 

Why no slicks? I like slicks. They feel so nice and squishy once warmed up.

 

Good stuff mark... since this whole thing started more about the fact that Jan... at not so expirenced driver and Mr. Flannery were able to break a "barrier" in from the performance gained...

So... it would have to be a driver like say Bob Sheer!

and then each car is driven by him... modding would have to be determined... since the cars we are currently talking about are GPs... I would say that it would have to be something similar... and whatever set ups they have... nothing too crazy... that is if we are going to keep it in line with the current record that has been achived... cause other wise... yeah I could throw a bunch of money at my car and school everyone LMAO!! yeah right!

 

If RMW and DMH can come on here talking about their driving and tuning prowess, they should be able to back it up. No excuses - if you can break barriers and talk trash about other vendors, take it to the track to prove it.

Besides, when have we EVER shirked an opportunity for an internet shouting match! You're trying to get actual results, when we all know it can't/won't happen. To think otherwise is to believe in the tooth fairy. So let's degrade it to what it will eventually be anyway and save ourselves the trouble. There would be nothing better, to me, than to see one of these vendors reign supreme.

mb

 

poopy head

 

there's no tooth fairy?!

 

Shouting matches are great...they up post counts...yeah

Unless the vendors agree to something like this AND agree on a common ground of evaluation AND a common driver that they all respect (hopefully someone from outside the MINI community) AND know that their business could likely be killed off in the court of public opinion if they don't win AND still want to go forward...the shouting won't stop.

Any vendor agreeing to do this has, potentially, a lot to loose so I'll be VERY surprised if it ever happens. I'd love it if it did just in the hope that the shouting would change to a dull roar

Mark

Sorry Tuls...there's no Santa either

 

 

That, sir, is the point. Lots of yapping and not much lapping. That was terrible; I apologize.

mb