I am very familiar with this track but what you do not see here are the various alternate setups they use which keeps the tight little course interesting but also changes times in many ways . For example the last turn before the straightaway, were they using the newer left right combo which isn't even shown on this diagram or running out through a bit of the skidpad? Another example is where the " north " arrow is there is also a deviation which is used frequently by different organizations . The fact that the course can also be run in either direction further jumbles the numbers . To say that there is a " magical " number to break at the SOW course is a bit humerous to those that are familiar with the local track scene . Like I said before if you want a benchmark take it to the big track. That one has been the standard since 1953 and no i didn't run it that year
Redline is a good organization and runs a nice event but I do not think that their timing and scoring is recognized by the SCCA with regards to records. I am not saying you guys didn't have a good time and ran well I am just thinking that speaking of " record or barrier breaking " might not fly too well with those that actually do it.

 

trackster...

As one that says you are quite familar with the track and and it various configurations then you also probably have a ballpark figure for the times different cars are capable of. It seems to me that people there with that same basic knowledge relayed to Jan that Mini's don't normally turn the types of times that were recently seen. much like anyone that is competitive in nature Jan is proud of these accomplishments. While they may not be of an official nature by a sanctioning body you approve of you have to admit on the course as shown these are impressive times for a Mini.

You are stuck on the semantics. Part of it is hype, like all vendors. Why not get out from behind the keyboard and join these folks next time they are at the track and see how the cars run. You might even have some fun too.

 

All good points and I do agree with you . It is just that when I see " Records " and Barriers " broken locally I get curious . If it is hype well then thats certainly not the first time I've seen it here on NAM. As for getting out behind the keyboard I do that too frequently. It's really not that much fun when you do it for a living . Not saying it won't happen , its just not real high on my priority list at the moment.

 

It's a timed event never heard of a DE event that was timed. You can kiss off any though of insurance coverage, but you guys are so good. What the hell do you need insurance for ... lol.

 

I am genuinely happy to see that you all went to the Streets for another track day as I don't see any Minis on track here on the east coast.

The fastest Mini I have ever heard about on track was the turbo done by LDG a few years ago. It made around 350 WHP and weighed about 2500 pounds.

As your track experience grows you will find that your point about the Elise (a far superior track car than the Mini) being passed while flat out is a comment many novice drivers come to understand: it's really about the driver and not the car. That helps explain why Miatas can be so fast and upsetting to drivers of higher horsepower cars.

 

What made the LDG Turbo the fastest mini on the track and are there numbers to back that up or is it just opinion? I keep seeing that car mentioned but never seen any Dyno numbers.

Just curious and would like to see more information on the LDG turbo car. If it has already been posted I can't seem to find it.

 

This has become a sad realization for me as I move up the groups at DE. Where I used to be so impressed with my MINI, giving it all of the credit in the world, when I'm on the track with guys/girls on the same level with superior cars, it can be quite humbling. Granted, my car isn't modded to the extreme.

I remember in one session I was hanging around with an MCoupe, thinking myself quite skilled. By the end of the day, he had figured something out or made some change and was 1/4 of a track faster than I was.

mb

 

This thread needs to be moved. The subject is neither racing or competition. They're talking about a track day. Do any of the participants have a race license from a sanctioning body? This is just another example of the delusional nature of some of the characters on NAM. We do a lot of track days and events throughout the year and these events are not the place to try to set "records" given the varying skill levels that are on the track together. We also rent the local track several times a year for private testing of our cars as well as other teams that we provide support for and requires all the drivers to have a current SCCA racing license.

 

As for the turbo mini, just look at Eurotuner magaizine and there is an article about the sister car. Both cars were built at the same time and the LDG car was the one that was being used to test the feasibility of producing a kit that could be installed by select vendors across the country. The only differences in the cars was that the Madness version used a stand alone ecu and the LDG version used the factory ecu. As most of you turbo only guys know, the car was incredibly fast but since this is not a home based business, we thought that as a product the cost was too high to make it a profitable venture. With these facts as well as a conflict with local laws, the project was dismissed.

 

Why does it matter where the business is located? So what John, you sprung for the shop and the employees and the trappings and bills that come along with it. Others work with the parties they need to get the job done but the office is based at home. Your own buddy Don, on his website lists an office address and shop address. Look up the office address on a hybrid google map sometime. Lookey there a pool in the back yard. Sure looks like a house in a residential neighborhood to me. Nice house too, plenty of land, wooded area. Shopping nearby and not to far off an interstate.

So again..why does it matter in this day an age of fast internet connections, capable subcontractors and accessibility to the goods and services a business requires does it matter where the physical location happens to be?

Is NAM not a viable business, it too is run from someones home.

 

Why is it the only threads Big Dog and DMH post only post in threads about all the success RMW is having?

Internet Troll

The Fact remains... no MINI had turned a lap time such as the RMW cars till now. Mr. Flanery is a very capable driver, but not untill he had that extra grunt for the straights and what not did he turn the time he did... same with Jan... regardless of handing.

When the F1 Toyota Team set lap record last year at Leguna I was there... it wasn't a sanctioned event... it was then setting lap times... to see if they could break what had been done previously... I guess that doesn't count either...

 

the answer is quite obvious to anyone watching

 

I dunno apparently we are all Delusional

 

I haven't posted much lately because I have not been in town for quite a while -- I've been playing at tracks, VIR being my favorite-- and I'm just now catching up.

I found this thread interesting because it is in the Road Race forum rather than Driver's School -- where I think it ought to be. What piqued my interest was the same thing that piqued Trackster -- magical numbers and track records. (I'm still waiting for a response to my questions about sanctioning body, etc. as I think it is important to separate fact from fiction.)

Please define your definition of success. To me success is not vendor internet hype as gnaster writes or supplying parts to a hand full of Minis for just a few years. Success is much more than that.
Points of reference:
LDG is a full service shop and works with pro race teams as does Precision (DMH). Neither is a Mini only shop.
Precision supports, on average, 40 Porsches at over 30 track days a year. (That is 1200+!)
NAMer JPropane can attest to Precision's success in CASCAR. Precision crew chiefed the BMW runner up in the top class this year (and were past champions). And Precision won 4 in row BMWCR National Championships in the largest classes with an E30 M3 (2003-2006).
Precision does numerous Mini track cars the latest being setup work for NAMer GaryLimey just last week. Even mbcoops is a customer.

 

You damn right, it doesn't. And since I personally wasn't there I doubt it happened at all...

 

Don't know if this is the scope of this thread, but I can attest to what DMH's shop does for track-oriented cars. It's the kind of place that makes you giggle if you like cars. Beyond that, I can also attest to the setup Don can do on a stingy budget with someone who is unwilling to really spend money to make the car fast (besides on HPDE, that is).

Silver lining to all of this - two MINI tuners take their cars to the track regularly. This can and will only improve the products available to us.

mb

 

Come on Don, we all know that threads on NAM are often in the wrong places. Have a problem with where the thread is located click on the report button and state where it should be. I know I do that a lot. And yes I do agree with you Don, this should be in the DE section.

You can't directly compare the results of precision or LDG since both have been around longer the RMW. Look back to your first year of operation Don and John, did you come from doing nothing to supporting 40 cars with in the first months from no customer base. I'd venture to say both of had a bit of a following that came with you from someplace else. It takes time to build a following. Dell wasn't selling millions of PC's a year from the get go either.

Something makes me think your math is fuzzy too. The shop I use supports me for track days. I do not need service between each event, and I'd hope all the Porsche's don't need to be serviced between each one as well.

I also think you know the same thing I said to trackster. With time hanging out and running various tracks you have an idea of the lap times these and otehr cars are capable of turning. I'd also venture to say that now and again a car or a driver turns a few laps at a time that surprises even you. Looks like thats what happened here and the locals were duly impressed. Yeah, then Jan took that and hyped it bit, you would too, from my conversations with you Don, modesty is not your strong suit. I know it's not Jan's, yet he still remains polite.

So I state again...Don (DMH), Jan (RMW), John (LDG), Peter (M7), Adam (Alta), George (Maddness) and anyone else thats doing bits for the Mini's. Meet someplace central, put your hot shoe, if it's not you, in the drivers seat and turn some laps for times. Let the best prepared Mini stand above the rest on that day in that location. I'd say the only caveat has to the Mini is capable of being driven to the track and is registered for road use.

 

Damn you, Gnatster. I was about to buy Webb's Mule just for this and you had to put that damn caveat in there... oh well, I guess at least the wife won't be pissed.

 

RMW says:::::


BRING IT ON

 

My definition:
1. the favorable or prosperous termination of attempts or endeavors.
2. a successful performance or achievement


All of the Hype you just posted about the shop is nice but we arent trying to see who's shop cack is bigger... It doesnt mean you have any more experience with MINIs than anyone else... Doesn't mean one knows how to build a fast MINI till I did...

Jan however has been building FAST minis for a long time.. he was the first to break the 280 WHP barrier with Hubie... LONG before anyone... Now he has come full circle with the SC only cars and done thing again that no one else has to date... and on top of just Dynos and Drag strips... he's going to the Road race tracks... and no MINI had broken 1:30 at willow till now...

I think that's is success...

since we are talking about success... wouldnt you and John have better success continuing the pm'ing and slagging of Jan like you have been instead of coming out in public.. I mean if we are all so delusional and such idiots... leave these threads alone... or even leave NAM... why must you continue trolling though the success of another vendor... all it does is make you guys out to be a bunch of Asses

Edit: oh and since we are Hyping stuff... I have a first place metal from the Beerlympics! SOooo

 

I've never been to the Streets of Willow.

 

As your experience grows you will learn that between all events/days/sessions service comes into play. Before all events our customers cars go through a technical inspection. Things that are usually serviced before each event include brakes, oil/filter, and tires. At high speed tracks sprint brake pads do not last more than about six hours of use. This is why you see so many people in all kinds of cars serving their brakes in the paddock day and night. (Very few of our customers use endurance equipment.) Most have their oil and filter changed after each weekend. R compound street tires and slicks, if speed is your concern, do not go more than eight or so heat cycles. At the end of the season those who are serious about speed and safety have at least their suspension components checked for wear and if needed, replaced.

I know very little about the Streets as I've never been there but what surprised me was the "magical" and "track record" comments. I've asked about that but RMW has yet to respond. I do know, from my friends who do time trials there, that there are many configurations in both directions. Fast times CW with the bowl are in the low 1:20s.

One thing that will become very clear to all track novices is that the driver and suspension, especially at a momentum track like Streets, far outweighs any power advantage. That is why, if you want to go fast, you ought to spend your money on DEs, suspensions, and brakes. Control first; power later.

The challenge is fine but not only will you learn that "registered for road use" and road legal are two different items (that is why cars run in different race classes) but you will also understand the role of the driver and his input with the setup. Thus it will likely nullify any bragging rights.

But one thing I want to make clear: I am happy to see more people taking an interest in tracking their Minis.

 

don.... you are so full of it

 

Don, your last post is great... Very good info for those who are less familiar with racing...

I now see from what you posted I think you missed the point of this thread... sure there are cars that can go faster... but NO MINI had turned 1:30 or less... that's why it was considered magical... cuase there were many FAST drivers using that track in thier minis... Like Mr. Flanery who has one multiple championships... He had tracked his MINI there before too... but with his recent power mods gained the extra speed... before that he wasnt' breaking the 1:30s... not for lack of being a capable driver...

 

Well i'm glad that you are a "full service shop". Because of your attitude here on NAM you must not be selling many Mini parts. This thread was started by RMW, so why do you have to come in here and spread your hype? Free advertizing? Funny that some vendors can only get there stuff read when they crash in on other vendors threads.