That's exactly right - that's a constant-hot 12v. You can use that since you have a fused line (5 amp glass fuse if I remember correctly) from the wireless breakout.
Once you have the wireless breakout ground and 12v constant wired, plug one of the male barrel-jack connectors into the female connector on the wire running from the cutout. You will have 3-4 feet of slack in that line. Put a cable tie around it and tuck it, and also be sure to put a cover (or simply electrical tape) over the second barrel coming from the wireless cutout. You don't want to accidentally short that and blow the fuse.
Incidentally, the fuse packs of 5 are around $2.99 - I've blown a few in the past, and they're good to keep in the car.
Again, as for the wiring from the cutout to the front, just follow the black hard brake lines along the mid-driver's side, then follow them up toward the fuse box. Avoid any hot spots - there's plenty of room once you get closer into the bay. Just use a flashlight and some black zip-ties and you'll have a nice and clean install.
Shouldn't take more than an hour from where you're at now!
Once you have the wireless breakout ground and 12v constant wired, plug one of the male barrel-jack connectors into the female connector on the wire running from the cutout. You will have 3-4 feet of slack in that line. Put a cable tie around it and tuck it, and also be sure to put a cover (or simply electrical tape) over the second barrel coming from the wireless cutout. You don't want to accidentally short that and blow the fuse.
Incidentally, the fuse packs of 5 are around $2.99 - I've blown a few in the past, and they're good to keep in the car.
Again, as for the wiring from the cutout to the front, just follow the black hard brake lines along the mid-driver's side, then follow them up toward the fuse box. Avoid any hot spots - there's plenty of room once you get closer into the bay. Just use a flashlight and some black zip-ties and you'll have a nice and clean install.
Shouldn't take more than an hour from where you're at now!
4th Gear
That's just it, that terminal with the red wire. If I test it to ground with my voltmeter does not register any voltage at all.
Okay, on the 2012, you can tap either F5 or F7 (F5 would be my pick at only 5A) for a constant 12v.
F7 is the footwell module, and F5 is the valvetronic system. Both are considered constant-hot. Since you already have a fused power line, you don't need to worry about an Add-a-Fuse. You can simply run a fuse tap - this is a good example:
AutoZone: Dorman/Fuse Power Taps Kit
Just crimp that to the red wire, pull one of those mentioned fuses and put the jumper on, and you're off to the races!
F7 is the footwell module, and F5 is the valvetronic system. Both are considered constant-hot. Since you already have a fused power line, you don't need to worry about an Add-a-Fuse. You can simply run a fuse tap - this is a good example:
AutoZone: Dorman/Fuse Power Taps Kit
Just crimp that to the red wire, pull one of those mentioned fuses and put the jumper on, and you're off to the races!
4th Gear
I'm a tool. I think I had my multimeter on a wierd setting. I changed it and got ~12.5v through the battery terminal on the fuse box. So I wired it there to always on. I might opt for an add-a-fuse later for a switched source later, but I just wanted to get it working for now.
I ran the wire, starting at the installed valve at the back, securing it out of the way with zip ties. I ran it into the black plastic gas tank shield (driver side) and lowered the shield so I could make it exit with the brake lines. I carefully zip tied the wire at every factory line holder up to the driver side wheel well, and carefully secured it following that brake line. The box was simply zip tied to the hood release hard cable for now.
The unit I got is a QTP unit. I ended up going with this manufacturer because I liked the design better than the BadlandzHPE model.
I ran the wire, starting at the installed valve at the back, securing it out of the way with zip ties. I ran it into the black plastic gas tank shield (driver side) and lowered the shield so I could make it exit with the brake lines. I carefully zip tied the wire at every factory line holder up to the driver side wheel well, and carefully secured it following that brake line. The box was simply zip tied to the hood release hard cable for now.
The unit I got is a QTP unit. I ended up going with this manufacturer because I liked the design better than the BadlandzHPE model.
4th Gear
i own a fwd r60s and cant get anyone to remove the resonator and 2nd cat. also thinking about the akrapovic dp but wanted to get rid of the res and 2nd cat first. how hard was it for you guys to get that done? if i do get the AK DP do i need to remap the ecu? i don't have a tune, just the BMS jb+ which i cant stop raving about.
4th Gear
A lot of shops are not going to tell you they'll do it over the phone. None of the chain exhaust shops will do it, and you don't want them to anyways. Try a local shop that does custom exhaust work or welding. The shop that did mine is a welding shop that also does custom exhaust and light automotive repair. They work on a lot of classic cars.
I heard tell of someone using a sawzall and cutting the pipe themselves and temporarily using pipe and clamps to limp to the shop...effectively removing the liability from the shop for removing the cat. Personally I wouldn't do it this way unless I absolutely couldn't find someone to do the work. Keep looking and asking around. Try showing up instead of calling, also.
I heard tell of someone using a sawzall and cutting the pipe themselves and temporarily using pipe and clamps to limp to the shop...effectively removing the liability from the shop for removing the cat. Personally I wouldn't do it this way unless I absolutely couldn't find someone to do the work. Keep looking and asking around. Try showing up instead of calling, also.
I do all my own work, so I didn't have to work very hard to convince myself. 
That being said, it's been difficult for some people to have shops do this. Generally my response is to show them that it's not part of the true emissions system since there is no sensor after the part.
The second cat is a regulation for EU standards, and the removal does not affect legality on US roadways with our EPA regulations. Likewise, the removal of that unit is not regulated under cleanliness acts, but rather would be treated like any other exhaust (post-cat) repair/replacement.
That being said, it's been difficult for some people to have shops do this. Generally my response is to show them that it's not part of the true emissions system since there is no sensor after the part.
The second cat is a regulation for EU standards, and the removal does not affect legality on US roadways with our EPA regulations. Likewise, the removal of that unit is not regulated under cleanliness acts, but rather would be treated like any other exhaust (post-cat) repair/replacement.
My local shop didn't ask any questions, but NM is pretty liberal about that kind of thing.
1st Gear
Quote:
If you can try and take that to a new shop. they spray painted the welds most likely cause they didnt use the right kind of filler wire when welding. Pretty common for muffler shops to do. They should be using 309L or equivalent. That setup should last a few years depending on where you live.Originally Posted by xenor
And the after shots. Initial impressions are almost stock sound with cutout closed and nice tone with lots of pop and burble with it open.
1st Gear
From my understanding of the law, it is illegal to remove a factory cat unless the OEM unit has failed. Even if it is not used for emissions.
FYI: It's not classified or certified as a catalytic device according to the part number (at least according to the US-spec).
Just so you know, the factory catalytic system ends at the exit of the downpipe.
Just so you know, the factory catalytic system ends at the exit of the downpipe.
1st Gear
Quote:
Just so you know, the factory catalytic system ends at the exit of the downpipe.
This is a part direct from MINI on that exhaust section:Originally Posted by Theta
FYI: It's not classified or certified as a catalytic device according to the part number (at least according to the US-spec).Just so you know, the factory catalytic system ends at the exit of the downpipe.
18309801957
Rmfd. catalyst with front silencer
Production Split: Up To 03/13
I understand that it EU spec, but that CAT does do something, it reduces harmful emissions being released into the atmosphere. Now, I am no tree hugger and could care less what someone does with that CAT. But that CAT is there for a reason and I think it is illegal to remove it. If you think MINI put it there because that is the requirement of the EU then they are wasting a huge dollar amount by putting them into vehicles that do not need them. I am not sure if it is part of an inside campaign by BMW/MINI to take a further step in reducing emissions or maybe they are trying to comply with future emissions standards.
For the sake of this discussion I would love to find out the actual legalities of removing this CAT/Silencer from a government standpoint. At any rate I am not saying you are wrong or I am right or vise versa. I am just providing my opinion on this mystery CAT.
On a similar note Sean, I need to hit you up off list to tell you about another exhaust issue. I know you have done massive amounts of testing on the CMS exhaust systems but some people just don't understand.
We can break this down in a way that might prove more useful. It may still end up being more of a 'shades-of-grey' discussion, but here goes:
The (let's call it main) catalyst section that begins at the exit of the turbocharger contains an O2 sensor (the pre-cat sensor), immediately followed by a 600-cell catalytic converter. Immediately following that is a second O2 sensor (the post-cat sensor). You know what these are these for and their differences, and I'm sure anyone reading this with interest does, as well.
The catalytic system ends there, both from an engine and manufacturing standpoint. The post-cat (in this case, an overly-restrictive 400-cell) was put in place to further reduce emissions across the board for clean-air countries. Much like every modern EU car (Porsche being a prime example), post-cats are being used to both quiet down (strange use, but obvious side-benefit) and further reduce the CO2 emissions that need to be listed on their manufacturer sticker. This is highly important in some EU countries, as you actually pay penalties/fees on cars that emit higher O2 levels.
Back to the US, now. MINI does not make (correction: no longer makes) a delineation on US- and EU- (and for that matter, Asia-) spec exhaust systems. Note that I'm referencing that they once did - in fact, for several years they offered US/NA versions of midpipes with no silencer (on the JCW models) that likewise had no post-cat. This was done away with sometime around 2007, and the numbers were wiped from ISIS/ETK, etc. My opinion on why that was done would be that buyers in EU countries were buying those parts from US dealers and having them shipped. By having a MINI-stamped product bypass an EU-mandated system, MINI could have been held liable for god-knows-what. Again, just my opinion - they could have pulled that for any other reason under the sun.
On the R53 (which was a dirty little engine), there was simply one cat behind the exhaust manifold leading directly to a silencer. At that time, no post-cats were added due to the lack of any higher regulations in the EU. In fact, take my 2008 R52 Sidewalk as an example - that's the very last run of production, and it still just has the single cat with a silencer. Does it emit more CO than my Countryman (stock for stock)? Absolutely. Was it a problem at the time (in the EU)? Not to my knowledge. Had it been, they would have modified the silencer section to include a small post-cat - after all, there was room to do so.
I'm hoping this is coming off as an informed example rather than a "nuh-uh" type argument. These forums have always been more civilized than others, and I've recently become quite a bit more aggravated with discussions turning into arguments over at another forum that I'm a part of...
I'm a pro-cat person, myself. My Countryman runs a catalytic converter (I know it doesn't sound like it), and even with everything done to it, emits clean water and zero smoke/soot. My new Corvette has 1-7/8" headers and a supercharger with a catted midpipe, even though most FI users there go catless (they burn out easily). I'm not a tree hugger, myself (I saw a Prius yesterday with a license plate that read 54MPG and almost puked... It's the same level of azzhat that puts their HP number on their plate). However, I enjoy my cabin and garage, etc. to smell as little like toxic chemicals as possible. Less CO is always a good thing, and modern catalytic converter technology no longer gives up any ground to catless applications. The C7 dynos have shown less than standard deviation between proper catted pipes and catless. A great showing, indeed!
At the end of all of this, though, is a fundamental grey area:
Q: Is the post-cat 'needed' for US drivers?
A: No.
Q: Is the post-cat registered under US EPA laws?
A: Currently, no.
Q: Is it legal to remove the post-cat and/or silencer?
A: This depends on the state and local city ordinances. There are many tricky laws on the books that prohibit with tampering with any factory exhaust system, California being a prime example. So much as removing and changing a muffler can land you in a heap of trouble.
Q: Will the car show a check engine light or exhibit any different behavior (other than more sound) with the post-cat removed?
A: No. The vehicle has no idea of what's happening past the post-cat O2 sensor. It's all 'dumb' behind that last check point.
Q: Will the car pass a modern emissions readiness test with the post-cat removed?
A: Absolutely.
Q: Will the car pass a smog test with the post-cat removed?
A: Absolutely.
Q: Will the car pass a smog test with the main-cat removed?
A: Not on your life.
Q: Is this something that would worry an enthusiast in the slightest?
A: No. There are many exhaust systems that simply do the job for you of removing the part without having to cut into the system to do so.
Q: Will the car have a measurable difference in CO emissions with and then without the post-cat?
A: We can certainly find out, but we would need someone with the proper equipment to do the testing for us.
At the end of the day, each enthusiast is free to make the choice to do what they would like to do to their vehicle. Some of us may take issue with it, but to each their own. In this case, there's no definitive answer, but hopefully this ramble has at least explained the choice a bit more.
The (let's call it main) catalyst section that begins at the exit of the turbocharger contains an O2 sensor (the pre-cat sensor), immediately followed by a 600-cell catalytic converter. Immediately following that is a second O2 sensor (the post-cat sensor). You know what these are these for and their differences, and I'm sure anyone reading this with interest does, as well.
The catalytic system ends there, both from an engine and manufacturing standpoint. The post-cat (in this case, an overly-restrictive 400-cell) was put in place to further reduce emissions across the board for clean-air countries. Much like every modern EU car (Porsche being a prime example), post-cats are being used to both quiet down (strange use, but obvious side-benefit) and further reduce the CO2 emissions that need to be listed on their manufacturer sticker. This is highly important in some EU countries, as you actually pay penalties/fees on cars that emit higher O2 levels.
Back to the US, now. MINI does not make (correction: no longer makes) a delineation on US- and EU- (and for that matter, Asia-) spec exhaust systems. Note that I'm referencing that they once did - in fact, for several years they offered US/NA versions of midpipes with no silencer (on the JCW models) that likewise had no post-cat. This was done away with sometime around 2007, and the numbers were wiped from ISIS/ETK, etc. My opinion on why that was done would be that buyers in EU countries were buying those parts from US dealers and having them shipped. By having a MINI-stamped product bypass an EU-mandated system, MINI could have been held liable for god-knows-what. Again, just my opinion - they could have pulled that for any other reason under the sun.
On the R53 (which was a dirty little engine), there was simply one cat behind the exhaust manifold leading directly to a silencer. At that time, no post-cats were added due to the lack of any higher regulations in the EU. In fact, take my 2008 R52 Sidewalk as an example - that's the very last run of production, and it still just has the single cat with a silencer. Does it emit more CO than my Countryman (stock for stock)? Absolutely. Was it a problem at the time (in the EU)? Not to my knowledge. Had it been, they would have modified the silencer section to include a small post-cat - after all, there was room to do so.
I'm hoping this is coming off as an informed example rather than a "nuh-uh" type argument. These forums have always been more civilized than others, and I've recently become quite a bit more aggravated with discussions turning into arguments over at another forum that I'm a part of...
I'm a pro-cat person, myself. My Countryman runs a catalytic converter (I know it doesn't sound like it), and even with everything done to it, emits clean water and zero smoke/soot. My new Corvette has 1-7/8" headers and a supercharger with a catted midpipe, even though most FI users there go catless (they burn out easily). I'm not a tree hugger, myself (I saw a Prius yesterday with a license plate that read 54MPG and almost puked... It's the same level of azzhat that puts their HP number on their plate). However, I enjoy my cabin and garage, etc. to smell as little like toxic chemicals as possible. Less CO is always a good thing, and modern catalytic converter technology no longer gives up any ground to catless applications. The C7 dynos have shown less than standard deviation between proper catted pipes and catless. A great showing, indeed!
At the end of all of this, though, is a fundamental grey area:
Q: Is the post-cat 'needed' for US drivers?
A: No.
Q: Is the post-cat registered under US EPA laws?
A: Currently, no.
Q: Is it legal to remove the post-cat and/or silencer?
A: This depends on the state and local city ordinances. There are many tricky laws on the books that prohibit with tampering with any factory exhaust system, California being a prime example. So much as removing and changing a muffler can land you in a heap of trouble.
Q: Will the car show a check engine light or exhibit any different behavior (other than more sound) with the post-cat removed?
A: No. The vehicle has no idea of what's happening past the post-cat O2 sensor. It's all 'dumb' behind that last check point.
Q: Will the car pass a modern emissions readiness test with the post-cat removed?
A: Absolutely.
Q: Will the car pass a smog test with the post-cat removed?
A: Absolutely.
Q: Will the car pass a smog test with the main-cat removed?
A: Not on your life.
Q: Is this something that would worry an enthusiast in the slightest?
A: No. There are many exhaust systems that simply do the job for you of removing the part without having to cut into the system to do so.
Q: Will the car have a measurable difference in CO emissions with and then without the post-cat?
A: We can certainly find out, but we would need someone with the proper equipment to do the testing for us.
At the end of the day, each enthusiast is free to make the choice to do what they would like to do to their vehicle. Some of us may take issue with it, but to each their own. In this case, there's no definitive answer, but hopefully this ramble has at least explained the choice a bit more.
6th Gear
i have had my milltek DP back exhaust on since 08/2012, no second cat, no resonator, only the backbox ... never a CEL
the only issue is: why does it take 3 technicians to test run my all4 after an oil/filter change? lolol
the only issue is: why does it take 3 technicians to test run my all4 after an oil/filter change? lolol
Quote:
That would be the same issue that causes me never to take mine back to the MINI service center. Not that I don't like the guys... I just know better. Originally Posted by bmwr606
the only issue is: why does it take 3 technicians to test run my all4 after an oil/filter change? lolol
6th Gear
Quote:
the tech asked me if he could drive the car ... he failed to mention the 2 passengersOriginally Posted by Theta
That would be the same issue that causes me never to take mine back to the MINI service center. Not that I don't like the guys... I just know better.
i did ask him not to get on it until it was warmed up ... he agreed, and owns an mcs himself
1st Gear
Sean, for the sake of my mind I am just going to give up this argument.
I started to read the Federal Clean Air Act but you know what? That is seriously boring read and I would rather have dental work done then read it.
Just in case some of you other bean counters want to take a stab at it... http://www.epw.senate.gov/envlaws/cleanair.pdf
I started to read the Federal Clean Air Act but you know what? That is seriously boring read and I would rather have dental work done then read it.
Just in case some of you other bean counters want to take a stab at it... http://www.epw.senate.gov/envlaws/cleanair.pdf
Haha, you're not joking there! That's a long, long, boring read.
I certainly didn't mean to come off as pushing an agenda or trying to be right (and certainly didn't mean to make you back down) - it's just one of those complicated issues that most people (not yourself, mind you) are ill-informed about.
You may very well be correct!
I certainly didn't mean to come off as pushing an agenda or trying to be right (and certainly didn't mean to make you back down) - it's just one of those complicated issues that most people (not yourself, mind you) are ill-informed about.
You may very well be correct!
1st Gear
Quote:
I certainly didn't mean to come off as pushing an agenda or trying to be right (and certainly didn't mean to make you back down) - it's just one of those complicated issues that most people (not yourself, mind you) are ill-informed about.
You may very well be correct!
didnt feel that way at all.Originally Posted by Theta
Haha, you're not joking there! That's a long, long, boring read.I certainly didn't mean to come off as pushing an agenda or trying to be right (and certainly didn't mean to make you back down) - it's just one of those complicated issues that most people (not yourself, mind you) are ill-informed about.
You may very well be correct!
You're also correct about the welding shops using the wrong wire.
That's why I started stick welding with SS rods. Not nearly as pretty (well, depending on who's doing the wire), and 100x less pretty than TIG, but it gets the job done - permanently.
That's why I started stick welding with SS rods. Not nearly as pretty (well, depending on who's doing the wire), and 100x less pretty than TIG, but it gets the job done - permanently.
5th Gear
Fun fact.
My factory exhaust on my 2013 JCW R60 (Australian Delivered) does not have a second cat.
Just a cat on the down pipe, a resonator and a rear muffler.
My factory exhaust on my 2013 JCW R60 (Australian Delivered) does not have a second cat.
Just a cat on the down pipe, a resonator and a rear muffler.
4th Gear
Now they say its illegal to remove 2nd cat in NC. They can do it but I might have inspection problems.
Conner also said it illegal in NC too but but had a friend of his in NC had it done. I am stuck right now. He's looking for the address for that shop so I can do mine too.
Conner also said it illegal in NC too but but had a friend of his in NC had it done. I am stuck right now. He's looking for the address for that shop so I can do mine too.